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Did Losing Dubinsky and Prust Crush the Rangers

View Poll Results: How significant was the loss of Dubinsky and Prust
Humongous. Losing them is why we have never been able to get the pieces of 2012 back. 43 26.22%
Missed, but not that major issue. 80 48.78%
Not really. 41 25.00%
Voters: 164. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-11-2013, 02:45 PM
  #101
DontStepanMe
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I think losing Dubi was even bigger than losing Prust. Dubi fought, killed penalties can play all 4 lines effectively, could lead a rush, score, assist etc.

He really was a jack of all trades type of player. While he will never be an All-Star he is a damn good hockey player and a true second line player.

On a side note i think it is kind of funny that people clamor for Ott or Simmonds but bash Dubi. Ott has only hit 40 points once and Simmonds twice but neither has ever hit 50 which Dubi has done. While Dubi has only been UNDER 40 points in one full season.

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Old
12-11-2013, 03:16 PM
  #102
Kel Varnsen
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Originally Posted by Thesensation19 View Post
Dubinsky said it best.
He has no hate toward the Rangers. However he does not understand why an organization would want to completely change its identity and its roster so much after such a successful season.

We got rid of our toughness, our chemistry, our depth, our way of life. We got rid of the song "ooooo i got a good feeling". Dam I got a good feeling everytime we fought hard for a win.

Now I feel like the wins are eh and the losses are embarrassing.

Nash is a good player. However he is not the type of guy I want to lead my team. He is not worth 7 million to me. Dont attack me for that, I dont think a lot of guys are worth their price tag. He is very predictable and he does little for us in the defensive zone. Our offense doesnt even look that much better with him or without him. In fact, havnt we been winning more games without him in the line up. Seemed so.

No one will attack the trade because its "Nash". He scores 30 goals a season so we gotta respect. But i dont think that way.

I liked Dubinsky. A cheaper, role player. A guy who can lead a team. Who will fight if he has to. Who can make plays as he is showing to do so in Columbus. He can play bottom 6, top 6, PK, PP, late minutes whatever.

Reliable.

I liked the way we were going. We had good young team, and a great prospect pool. I would have probably kept our team, our coach and gotten rid of Gaborik and try to make the same trade anyway. If it didnt work out, Kreider and Miller were on the horizon who could replace the top 6 predictable Slovak winger. But we didnt.

We changed our entire identity into something idk about anymore.

I lost a lot of interest because of it. Fans look like they did too to be honest.

Anyway. We have what we have.
If i could make changes now. We need to get rid of Pyatt and Poiulet. Terrible. Get rid of them

I believe we need another top 4 Defender. With or without the return of Staal. I was saying this since DZ has been terrible defensively. Out of position. We need someone who can be reliable in the top 4. Even if its a rental I think that will make a world of a difference.

Idk who yet,. Havent research yet
Yeah, I pretty much agree with this. I absolutely loved 2011-2012. Every game was must see TV. There was no quit. It felt special. 24/7 added to it. I look at this team now, and we messed it all up. Nash is a loser. He's always been a loser. Remember when we played him and the Garden chanted, "We don't want you!". Yeah. I remember those days, and I never stopped feeling that way. We had something special and we threw it all away for a name. Unfortunately that's what we did, and it will probably lead to us being a mediocre to poor team for the next decade because of it. Hank will never win a cup. As long as Nash is your best player, you're not going to win anything. The only shot we have is that Kreider becomes the best player and Nash becomes a secondary role player.

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12-11-2013, 03:35 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
As long as Nash is your best player, you're not going to win anything. The only shot we have is that Kreider becomes the best player and Nash becomes a secondary role player.
He can be your best player. Nash is a very rare talent in the NHL. What you do need, however, is another two to three players like him.

Look at the winning teams. Chicago (Kane, Toews, Hossa), LA (Kopitar,
Cater, Richards), Penguins (Crosby, Malkin, Staal), etc.

You need multiple star players up front, to balance each other and to cover for any cold streaks.

Rangers do not have that. Its Nash all by himself.

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12-11-2013, 03:53 PM
  #104
Ian
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The Rangers were 11-9-1 in the last two months of the 11/12 season. Crosby missed 40~ games and the Pens finished 1 point behind them.

Rangers were a coin flip away from losing to both the Sens and the Caps.

Considering the lack of success this org has had since 94, that was a great season. All things considered, really not that impressive.

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12-11-2013, 04:00 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by nikonsniper View Post
He can be your best player. Nash is a very rare talent in the NHL. What you do need, however, is another two to three players like him.

Look at the winning teams. Chicago (Kane, Toews, Hossa), LA (Kopitar,
Cater, Richards), Penguins (Crosby, Malkin, Staal), etc.

You need multiple star players up front, to balance each other and to cover for any cold streaks.

Rangers do not have that. Its Nash all by himself.
I'd like a little less raw talent and a little more compete level in Nash. Hes way too indifferent for me on the ice. A decade of bad habits on a perennial loser will do that to you.

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12-11-2013, 04:02 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Ian View Post
The Rangers were 11-9-1 in the last two months of the 11/12 season. Crosby missed 40~ games and the Pens finished 1 point behind them.

Rangers were a coin flip away from losing to both the Sens and the Caps.

Considering the lack of success this org has had since 94, that was a great season. All things considered, really not that impressive.
And you are downplaying that '11-12 season because....????

To make us feel a little better that we have a team now that stinks a lot worse? I dont get it. That team, while not perfect, was building a foundation. This team? Its just...there. Vanilla. Purgatory.

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12-11-2013, 04:06 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
And you are downplaying that '11-12 season because....????

To make us feel a little better that we have a team now that stinks a lot worse? I dont get it. That team, while not perfect, was building a foundation. This team? Its just...there. Vanilla. Purgatory.
A little perplexed by that post as well. That team was the best that the Rangers have had in quite a long while. And was something that we could all be proud of.

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12-11-2013, 04:18 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
And you are downplaying that '11-12 season because....????

To make us feel a little better that we have a team now that stinks a lot worse? I dont get it. That team, while not perfect, was building a foundation. This team? Its just...there. Vanilla. Purgatory.
Because that season's results convinced a lot of people, namely Sather, that the Rangers were much closer to actually winning a cup than they actually were/are.

Clowe trade, Asham & Pyatt signing, to some extent the Nash trade, were all moves that were predicated by that thought process.

There's nothing wrong for enjoying that season for what it was, I sure did too. But that wasn't as much of a building block year as it's often described as.

In fact, I'd say it's doing more harm than good at this point, just like the late 06/07 run that convinced Sather to go for it with Gomez/Drury, and the subsequent disaster 07/08 offseason.

Rearranging the titanic's deck chairs is the best way to describe it.

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12-11-2013, 04:27 PM
  #109
Kel Varnsen
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Originally Posted by nikonsniper View Post
He can be your best player. Nash is a very rare talent in the NHL. What you do need, however, is another two to three players like him.

Look at the winning teams. Chicago (Kane, Toews, Hossa), LA (Kopitar,
Cater, Richards), Penguins (Crosby, Malkin, Staal), etc.

You need multiple star players up front, to balance each other and to cover for any cold streaks.

Rangers do not have that. Its Nash all by himself.
Nash isn't a "rare talent" as a hockey player. He might be a "rare talent" as a scorer, but as a hockey player he's probably just slightly above average. He does literally nothing else well besides scoring. His playmaking is poor, it's all about him. His defense sucks. His physicality without the puck is non-existent. His speed is average. His killer instinct doesn't exist. His situational awareness is awful, all he cares about is his own goal total.

We as a franchise need to start differentiating between good numbers and good players.

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12-11-2013, 04:35 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
Nash isn't a "rare talent" as a hockey player. He might be a "rare talent" as a scorer, but as a hockey player he's probably just slightly above average. He does literally nothing else well besides scoring. His playmaking is poor, it's all about him. His defense sucks. His physicality without the puck is non-existent. His speed is average. His killer instinct doesn't exist. His situational awareness is awful, all he cares about is his own goal total.

We as a franchise need to start differentiating between good numbers and good players.
Wow. Speechless.

Cross hockey analyst off your career transition list.

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12-11-2013, 04:44 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by mrhockey193195 View Post
His first four seasons in the NHL, before his down year (offensively) in 2011-12:

2007-08 21 NYR NHL 82 14 26 40
2008-09 22 NYR NHL 82 13 28 41
2009-10 23 NYR NHL 69 20 24 44
2010-11 24 NYR NHL 77 24 30 54

Did you just start watching? (See, I can do it too!)


And as per the bolded...like I always say, he had ONE bad season in his career. Ask any Blue Jackets fan, Dubi was great when he was playing last year, and has been fantastic for them this year. He literally had one bad season (offensively - he was still very effective as a forechecker/PKer in 2011-12). If the Rangers consider one off-year to be "playing yourself into a trade", then it's no surprise why this team has had little team success in the last 75 years.

Every single player in the history of the NHL, not named Gretzky, Orr, Lemieux, Howe, and the other all time greats, has had an off year. How many of you fans were calling for Mike Richter to be dumped after 1992-93? Even though he was an all-star the year before?
So his 2g last season meets your standards? Great. At 4.5m the rangers couldn't afford
His great play in the absence of scoring. Dubinsky is good player and I acknowledge the fact
That we miss him.... but I do that Nash trade every day of week
And 2x on sunday

You can't pay players 4.5m for 1 season of 50p+

He needed to build on it. He went south.

How much should he get in his next contract? 5.5 m?

I'm glad the NYR aren't paying it

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12-11-2013, 08:22 PM
  #112
Kel Varnsen
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
Wow. Speechless.

Cross hockey analyst off your career transition list.
If you remember my posting history you would realize I've correctly predicted everything that's happened with this team since we traded for Nash. So if you disagree with my predictions going forwards now, you're probably just going to be wrong again.

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12-11-2013, 09:14 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
If you remember my posting history you would realize I've correctly predicted everything that's happened with this team since we traded for Nash. So if you disagree with my predictions going forwards now, you're probably just going to be wrong again.
You need to get off it, seriously.

That season was a small window of opportunity that closed as soon as your dream team decided to get taken to 7 games by 2 lesser teams, and then pack it in against an over-achieving Devils team.

Everything that happened the following season had ZERO to do with Nash, nothing whatsoever. The lockout came, Richards regressed horribly, Gaborik regressed and was traded to replace the depth that idiot SATHER never replaced properly. Staal was injured. Eventually your hero and savior John Tortorella lost the team and that was that. Glen Sather got rid of your amazing coach because the team did not want to play for him anymore. Period. They had their chance and they blew it. You want to point fingers? Point them at the cry baby players who tuned out Torts, blame Sather for being a terrible GM, or maybe you should even put the onus on your god coach who lost his team by trying to force round pegs in square holes for too long. Don't blame Rick Nash, who once again, is basically being asked to do it all himself outside of the fact he now has Henrik Lundqvist who is also basically trying to do it all alone.

At the end of the day the real culprit has been around for over a decade and you can boast about your 'predictions' all you like, but unless 13 years ago you said, "Glen Sather will be the worst thing to happen to this franchise." you can give up the Nostradamus act. No one cares. I said the day they traded for Brassard he would continue to be an inconsistent nothingmaster who will bring nothing of value to this team. I continue to be correct, BIG DEAL because at the end of the day Derrick Brassard is the least of this team's problems.


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12-11-2013, 09:30 PM
  #114
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IMO , what;s going on with this team is not the result of one trade or a loss of a player or 2 but rather a combination of events some of which were uncontrollable.

The offense.... Sure maybe the loss of Prust is had an effect on BOyle? Maybe it was the loss of Avery? In any case, the fourth line is producing fewer goals than they ever have. When Kreider was hot the offense blossomed a bit. Hags has been inconsistent. The PP looks better but the 5 on 5 scoring is way down. Cally has been hurt for stretches and his goal scoring has not been made up. While I am concerned by dearth of scoring I am more concerned about....

The defense.....I see the defense pinching more than ever which ultimately leaves Lundy vulnerable. He is facing more odd man rushes than in the past. I wouldn't object except I don't believe the D is talented enough to play a more aggressive style. THe D needs to simplify their game. The forwards aren't playing the same collapsing game around the net. Thus Lundy is facing more shots. My fear is that his GA's will remain at an elevated level for longer than most of us expect. Perhaps, being a father has changed his focus (however unlikely). More likely, picture the following defensive pairs:

Mcdonough - Girardi

Staal (pre eye injury) - Sauer

Stralman - MDZ/Moore/Emms

Perhaps this D. lineup would prove to be more competitive?

If a line gets hot the team may reel off another streak or so. Perhaps the team will need to go back into it's defensive shell to stabilize their play?

In my opinion the Rangers are a mediocre team that needs to solidify the bottom 3 defensemen before they can take a step ahead.

IMO

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12-11-2013, 09:31 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
And you are downplaying that '11-12 season because....????

To make us feel a little better that we have a team now that stinks a lot worse? I dont get it. That team, while not perfect, was building a foundation. This team? Its just...there. Vanilla. Purgatory.
I've noticed a lot of people on here do that. I loved that team.

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12-11-2013, 09:53 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Thesensation19 View Post

Now I feel like the wins are eh and the losses are embarrassing.
I can relate to this feeling so much.

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12-11-2013, 11:14 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
If you remember my posting history you would realize I've correctly predicted everything that's happened with this team since we traded for Nash. So if you disagree with my predictions going forwards now, you're probably just going to be wrong again.

You didnt predict anything dude. You had no clue how things would turn out, all you did was speculate and have an opinion. You arent any higher than us here.

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12-11-2013, 11:15 PM
  #118
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I've noticed a lot of people on here do that. I loved that team.

Makes me sick when people call 11-12 a fluke. I love that team and season

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12-12-2013, 01:51 AM
  #119
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You didnt predict anything dude. You had no clue how things would turn out, all you did was speculate and have an opinion. You arent any higher than us here.
Not to over state, but a lot of us did point out the fact that Nash had not actually led anyone any where. He's a very talented offensive player, but I don't think too many people would accuse him of being a complete player on both sides of the puck. People just keep thinking because he's big and plenty skilled that that will be the difference maker. Obviously it's not. He's the kind of shiny toy player that fans and management want to see on Garden ice. Tort's could not motivate him. His presence in the play offs last year was....well muted would be a charitable word to use. Now AV is calling out the teams best players of whom Nash is one.

Look, honestly I was less than fired up about making the deal. But he's here. I want him to succeed. I was really worried about the team the Rangers would have around him, because Nash needs a lot of support. He can't carry a team on his back and he's been proving that for a decade.

To be fair, no one figured on Richie crapping the bed last year. Clearly the team missed what Dubi and Pruster put in the room and on the ice. This year changes and more people getting injured and crapping the bed. It's all about things coming together nicely and that's not happening.

In an ideal world you would be adding Nash to a team with decent scoring talent and tons of grit and character to put you over the top. But this is the New York Rangers and for reasons none of us will ever understand, they almost never get it right.

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12-12-2013, 07:03 AM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
If you remember my posting history you would realize I've correctly predicted everything that's happened with this team since we traded for Nash. So if you disagree with my predictions going forwards now, you're probably just going to be wrong again.
Lol predictions? Yea ok.

11-12 team played great but weren't a great team by any stretch. We were barely scoring 2g a game and were
Going to get sent packing in the first round if not for the offensive spark of Kreider...

The addition of Nash gave that clown tortorella more offensive tools then he ever had in NY and he couldn't
Construct any offense. He played Gaborik out of position and effectively ran him out after he carried the
Offense for years.

Now Nash is the elephant in the room. Management continues to look for one star to lead the way and it never
Works. The supporting cast is always nonexistent.

All of the signings that people cry about "never working out" are largely due to the appalling lack of
Talent throughout the lineup.

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12-12-2013, 08:05 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Eventually your hero and savior John Tortorella lost the team and that was that. Glen Sather got rid of your amazing coach because the team did not want to play for him anymore. Period.
Sorry, but calling utter BS on this. Torts did not loose the team and they continued to play for him. Getting overwhelmed by a Boston team that swept Pitt and was superior in every way was not an example of not playing hard.

They played their tukhuses off and got into the playoffs and then came back to advance to the second round. Teams that quit on their coach do not do that.

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12-12-2013, 08:09 AM
  #122
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Not to over state, but a lot of us did point out the fact that Nash had not actually led anyone any where.
Not only that, but (and this was not a prediction) some of us also warned about disrupting the apple cart by destroying the chemistry of the room. Honestly, my surprise is not so much about the results of this season, it is the sheer disgust by what I am seeing on the ice. We did not see anything like this with Dubinsky & Prust in the lineup, and Torts behind the bench. This has been like watching a Ron Blow coached team.

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12-12-2013, 08:14 AM
  #123
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Sorry, but calling utter BS on this. Torts did not loose the team and they continued to play for him. Getting overwhelmed by a Boston team that swept Pitt and was superior in every way was not an example of not playing hard.

They played their tukhuses off and got into the playoffs and then came back to advance to the second round. Teams that quit on their coach do not do that.
Funny that his tenure ended shortly after break-up day, and John himself claimed to be shocked. A coincidence surely.

Swedish posters here were speculating and posting about rumors they heard regarding Lundqvist's disdain towards Torts. Then there was the Avery tweet. John admitted he hurt his relationship with Richards.

You can call BS all you like but to me everything that occured surrounding John points to his team, or at least a small yet important part of it, had enough of him and forced Sather's hand.

The point is this, one way or another John ran himself out of town because of the relationship deteriorating between he and key players.

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12-12-2013, 08:16 AM
  #124
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Dubinsky was invisible his last two years here. Prust was a good PKer and occasional spark plug. Neither player would've made much of a difference today.

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12-12-2013, 08:17 AM
  #125
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Lol predictions? Yea ok.

11-12 team played great but weren't a great team by any stretch. We were barely scoring 2g a game and were
Going to get sent packing in the first round if not for the offensive spark of Kreider...

The addition of Nash gave that clown tortorella more offensive tools then he ever had in NY and he couldn't
Construct any offense. He played Gaborik out of position and effectively ran him out after he carried the
Offense for years.

Now Nash is the elephant in the room. Management continues to look for one star to lead the way and it never
Works. The supporting cast is always nonexistent.

All of the signings that people cry about "never working out" are largely due to the appalling lack of
Talent throughout the lineup.
No this is clearly all Rick Nash's fault. If he had never been born they would still be a Stanley Cup caliber squad. Curse you, Rick.

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