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12-12-2013, 06:47 AM
  #226
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Originally Posted by StoneHands View Post
You can blame wrist/hand injuries and you can blame linemates all you want but just watching Giroux tells me all I need to know. He lacks that burst of speed he had. He lacks those filthy moves in tight spaces. He lacks the creativity. There are games, tonight being an example where Giroux is completely invisible. He's done nothing tonight. I love Giroux. I really hope he regains his form and I know it's borderline criminal to say around here but right now he's just not the same player that made us all drool.
That well may be the consequence of the wrist/ finger injuries.

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12-12-2013, 07:08 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Bob Clarke Fan Club View Post
8 million dollar players shouldn't need stars to make room for them. Turnover machine atm. Hope he can get it turned around or it's going to be a long 8 1/2 years. Not that the last 8 1/2 have exactly flown by.
That's not true at all. Most star players have another star player to play with, or at least they have one on their team to draw some of the defensive attention away. Giroux plays on a team with 8 other 2nd/3rd liners. It's pretty obvious to anyone that watches with any consistency that the opposing team's plan is usually just to suffocate Giroux and see if any of the other slop can beat them. Well... they can't. Get the man at least one legitimate first liner, and his numbers will increase considerably.

I get it though. Most of this board thinks he should carry the team every night. The difference between a 70 point player and a 90 point player is one extra point every four games. Even if he was scoring at a 90 point pace, this team would still suck.

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12-12-2013, 07:14 AM
  #228
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Literally the exact same thing happened to Getzlaf in 11-12.

Crappy team who scored far less than usual combined with an awful on ice and personal shot %. The circumstances are pretty much exactly the same.

Except he actually had linemates that year... he did not even have that excuse.

This team is heading for 185 goals this year.

It is almost unheard one for one player to contribute to more than 40% of goals directly... (most star players are involved in 30-35% of goals).

So if this team keeps up the stagnant offence G should get ~ 60-65 points really.

He is already providing 30% of team offence... he averages around 34% in the last few years.

If he gets 70+ with a team offence like this it will be Crosby and Stamkos standards in terms of % of team goals.

Both his linemates are under 0.5 PPG... they are heading for 30 something points, while Giroux is on pace for 55-60.

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12-12-2013, 07:18 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by appleyard View Post
literally the exact same thing happened to getzlaf in 11-12.

Crappy team who scored far less than usual combined with an awful on ice and personal shot %. The circumstances are pretty much exactly the same.

Except he actually had linemates that year... He did not even have that excuse.

This team is heading for 185 goals this year.

It is almost unheard one for one player to contribute to more than 40% of goals directly... (most star players are involved in 30-35% of goals).

So if this team keeps up the stagnant offence g should get ~ 60-65 points really.

He is already providing 30% of team offence... He averages around 34% in the last few years.

If he gets 70+ with a team offence like this it will be crosby and stamkos standards in terms of % of team goals.

Both his linemates are under 0.5 ppg... They are heading for 30 something points, while giroux is on pace for 55-60.
but you can tell he's no leader!!!!!!

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12-12-2013, 08:27 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
but you can tell he's no leader!!!!!!
Mike Richards is a better leader, captain and player overall.


Last edited by FlyersFan61290: 12-12-2013 at 09:15 AM.
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12-12-2013, 09:34 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
shouldnt happen to "the best player in the world"
People act like Giroux walks around calling himself "the best player in the world". Lavy was the one who said it, not Giroux.

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12-12-2013, 09:46 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Mike Richards is a better leader, captain and player overall.
I love this game. Remember in 2011 when Mike Richards was no Keith Primeau? And then rememeber when Primeau struggled and he was no Rod Brind'Amour? You can play that all day. Claude Giroux is fanatastic hockey player struggling on a team that just doesn't have a lot of talent. But if you must, find another sacrificial lamb.

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12-12-2013, 09:52 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
I love this game. Remember in 2011 when Mike Richards was no Keith Primeau? And then rememeber when Primeau struggled and he was no Rod Brind'Amour? You can play that all day. Claude Giroux is fanatastic hockey player struggling on a team that just doesn't have a lot of talent. But if you must, find another sacrificial lamb.
Richards was my favorite Flyer since Lindros so I don't really fit that mold you created for me. Richards had a great run in 2010 and was injured in 2011 so I don't even know what your talking about. Richards got this team closer to a cup then any Flyers captain in a long time.

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12-12-2013, 09:58 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Richards was my favorite Flyer since Lindros so I don't really fit that mold you created for me. Richards had a great run in 2010 and was injured in 2011 so I don't even know what your talking about. Richards got this team closer to a cup then any Flyers captain in a long time.
My point was this is how the fan base turns on players. They struggle for a brief period of time and then everyone jumps in revisionist history mode.

Claude Giroux, at his best (and even just below that level), is a much better hockey player than Richards. 30 games on a **** team doesn't take away from that.

And lol at Richards getting the team closer. First, that team was stacked in comparison to the current group. They had two hall of fame defensemen in their primes, and 4 soild lines of offensive contributors. And even then, it took the parting of the seas scenario for the Flyers to get there (Washington and Pittsburgh both getting knocked out by an inferior Habs team). Giroux has beaten the Pens in the playoffs.

I'm not even going to get into the Richards/Carter thing again. I still love them both as players. But, Giroux is a better player than either of them.

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12-12-2013, 10:05 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by BobbyClarkeFan16 View Post
This. I also think the loss of Jagr really hurt him more than anyone might admit. I'm not willing to write off Giroux over a bad season and I'm convinced that there's something wrong that he isn't letting anyone know, in part because he's the captain of the team and he doesn't want to let anyone within the organization down.
Hit the nail on the head with this one. G was dominant when he was playing with Jagr because Jagr is a crafty player who is dangerous so G had more space. He's being tight checked because Hartnell and Jake are not threats to shoot in the zone. They can't create their own space like Jagr could. Just watch Jake. He's only really a threat when he's at full speed on on the PP. This is exactly why I advocated for Bobby Ryan. G needed a winger who was a threat to score.

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12-12-2013, 10:11 AM
  #236
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I still love Giroux. He's my fav player, but he's been god awful this season. I wouldnt be surprised if he's still injured.

for his own good, I hope he doesnt make Team Canada

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12-12-2013, 10:11 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
My point was this is how the fan base turns on players. They struggle for a brief period of time and then everyone jumps in revisionist history mode.

Claude Giroux, at his best (and even just below that level), is a much better hockey player than Richards. 30 games on a **** team doesn't take away from that.

And lol at Richards getting the team closer. First, that team was stacked in comparison to the current group. They had two hall of fame defensemen in their primes, and 4 soild lines of offensive contributors. And even then, it took the parting of the seas scenario for the Flyers to get there (Washington and Pittsburgh both getting knocked out by an inferior Habs team). Giroux has beaten the Pens in the playoffs.

I'm not even going to get into the Richards/Carter thing again. I still love them both as players. But, Giroux is a better player than either of them.
Correction, Giroux is the better offensive player. That's why I said better player overall, this has little to do with G's current offensive struggles. Btw G had problems last yr too but had a great finish so please don't act like this is based only on 30 games. Again hockey isn't all offense.

And I don't know what you consider prime but Pronger and Kimmo were not in their primes, they were 36 and 35 respectively. Secondly that team had holes as well, a terrible goalie tandem and no 3rd pairing to speak of. Also Richards was playing a ton with Carcillo and Nodl, the only reason the team had 4 good lines is cause Richards played that well. I don't really want to get into this either, I like the trades and all I was just stating my opinion which I have a reasonable basis for.

To make things clear I'm not turning on anyone. Giroux still is our best player he just isn't playing like it. I would hate to see him driven out of town like Richards was for suspect reasoning.

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Old
12-12-2013, 10:20 AM
  #238
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I don't think Giroux is the problem. Voracek and Hartnell are the problem.

Until Giroux gets a top tier winger on his line he is not going to be as effective.

In 2010-11 his wingers were mainly JVR and Carter and he had 76 points
In 2011-12 he had Jagr to his right and got 93 points

Voracek could still be an effective winger but it's time for Hartnell to go.

The hockey world moves too quickly to keep a winger past his prime on the first line.

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12-12-2013, 10:25 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by brewcrew8 View Post
I don't think Giroux is the problem. Voracek and Hartnell are the problem.

Until Giroux gets a top tier winger on his line he is not going to be as effective.

In 2010-11 his wingers were mainly JVR and Carter and he had 76 points
In 2011-12 he had Jagr to his right and got 93 points

Voracek could still be an effective winger but it's time for Hartnell to go.

The hockey world moves too quickly to keep a winger past his prime on the first line.
Bundle up Hartnell + Streit for a scoring winger (holding 25% to 50% of their salaries)?

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12-12-2013, 10:31 AM
  #240
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I'm not turning on giroux at all. I would just like to see glimpses that he is still a point producer. He has YET to take over a game where you really have to notice giroux. He isn't a threat anymore and the other teams don't even have to try that hard. You know he will drive up the middle of the ice and take on 4 defenders and just turn it over. Hartnell will try to win a board battle, and in 15 seconds their offensive opportunity is gone and back on their heals again. I think it has some to do with the system and maybe giroux isn't the right player for this system? But this goes back to management. Why give berube a 2 year contract before actually seeing what he does with this crew?

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12-12-2013, 10:32 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by brewcrew8 View Post
I don't think Giroux is the problem. Voracek and Hartnell are the problem.
I agree. Does Hartnell do anything positive out there anymore? Besides his rare shining moment (mostly coming on the powerplay), he's been down right bad. His penalty on Toews after the Hawks' 5th goal was classic Hartnell.

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12-12-2013, 10:39 AM
  #242
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Originally Posted by AaronTrieu View Post
I'm not turning on giroux at all. I would just like to see glimpses that he is still a point producer. He has YET to take over a game where you really have to notice giroux. He isn't a threat anymore and the other teams don't even have to try that hard. You know he will drive up the middle of the ice and take on 4 defenders and just turn it over. Hartnell will try to win a board battle, and in 15 seconds their offensive opportunity is gone and back on their heals again. I think it has some to do with the system and maybe giroux isn't the right player for this system? But this goes back to management. Why give berube a 2 year contract before actually seeing what he does with this crew?
The contract is for show. He can be fired at any time. He was given it to show to the players that they have a coach, and that they're not in a state of limbo.

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12-12-2013, 10:43 AM
  #243
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Bundle up Hartnell + Streit for a scoring winger (holding 25% to 50% of their salaries)?
Taking on some of the salary is probably the only way someone would take Hartnell's contract. Probably the Flyers would need to trade a prospect in it too.

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Originally Posted by OgbertTheNerd View Post
I agree. Does Hartnell do anything positive out there anymore? Besides his rare shining moment (mostly coming on the powerplay), he's been down right bad. His penalty on Toews after the Hawks' 5th goal was classic Hartnell.
Yea he's valuable on the power play but even strength he's just not a first line forward anymore. Maybe he could still work with Giroux/Jagr but not now.

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12-12-2013, 10:49 AM
  #244
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I really feel sorry for Voracek at times, he has so much skill and speed and two idiots on his line that can't keep up with him on the rush. Why does Berube place the Snail Hartnell on this line? He's done nothing to deserve it, Giroux I can understand because he's the Captain but he's not deserving either.

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12-12-2013, 10:51 AM
  #245
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Originally Posted by FlyersFanz View Post
I really feel sorry for Voracek at times, he has so much skill and speed and two idiots on his line that can't keep up with him on the rush. Why does Berube place the Snail Hartnell on this line? He's done nothing to deserve it, Giroux I can understand because he's the Captain but he's not deserving either.
So you're saying Giroux is just as bad as Hartnell? Ok sure... whatever...

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12-12-2013, 11:01 AM
  #246
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
So you're saying Giroux is just as bad as Hartnell? Ok sure... whatever...
Look at his stats bud...proof enough. I think Hartnell is hurting both G and Jake being on that line. G gets the brunt because he's the Captain...duty is to step up!

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12-12-2013, 11:06 AM
  #247
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Look at his stats bud...proof enough. I think Hartnell is hurting both G and Jake being on that line. G gets the brunt because he's the Captain...duty is to step up!
He may be captain, but it's really damn hard when no else steps up either. You may be captain, but you are not a one man ****ing army. You are a member of a team that needs to work like a team. When a lot of parts fail, so does the team. Giroux also has the most points on a team, on a team that isn't scoring ****. Giroux is one man, he can't be out there for every shift, scoring every goal. You don't think he knows that they aren't doing what they know they can? He may not be doing well, but outside of Mason, Couts and Giroux, who else is doing well this year?

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12-12-2013, 11:09 AM
  #248
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Originally Posted by FlyersFanz View Post
Look at his stats bud...proof enough. I think Hartnell is hurting both G and Jake being on that line. G gets the brunt because he's the Captain...duty is to step up!
You do realize Jake only has two more points than Hartnell with four more games played, right? And both are well behind Giroux in scoring.

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12-12-2013, 11:17 AM
  #249
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He may be captain, but it's really damn hard when no else steps up either. You may be captain, but you are not a one man ****ing army. You are a member of a team that needs to work like a team. When a lot of parts fail, so does the team. Giroux also has the most points on a team, on a team that isn't scoring ****. Giroux is one man, he can't be out there for every shift, scoring every goal. You don't think he knows that they aren't doing what they know they can? He may not be doing well, but outside of Mason, Couts and Giroux, who else is doing well this year?
Read? Vinny?..the 3rd line has been the best so far this season.
Vinny was doing okay until he got injured, at least he was scoring when no one else could just like Read did.
I'm as frustrated as you are and I wish I had the answer to this teams woes...with the youth and talent on this team all three lines should be producing regularly. Flyers defense for a while there looked decent now all of a sudden the wheels have fallen of the cart again. Why Mez is playing over Gus just doesn't make sense unless the Flyers are getting Mez ice time for possible trade bait. I don't want to blame Giroux for all this, its tough because he is the leader out there but what else as fans do we do? We did the same when Richie was Captain too.

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12-12-2013, 11:18 AM
  #250
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Originally Posted by FlyersFanz View Post
I really feel sorry for Voracek at times, he has so much skill and speed and two idiots on his line that can't keep up with him on the rush. Why does Berube place the Snail Hartnell on this line? He's done nothing to deserve it, Giroux I can understand because he's the Captain but he's not deserving either.
All Voracek does is skate down the boards with the puck and randomly throw the puck in the slot to three opposing players.

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