You want guys who can skate....coach has said it himself...he's not very good at it. He's not slow at all...he's thrown a number of good checks...you knew he had no offensive ability before he came back...and let him get into the flow of things...then he'll start diving every where and PKing. Sure you should....but it comes secondary. You're not looking to put a scorer on your bottom 6 and Jarko Immonen is a top 2 line center. If he can't make it there then he's taking the job of a defensive center...or checking center...which is what I think Hossa WAS doing...but he proved me wrong. Doubt Immonen can do that...especially given his size, and lack of NHL experience at his age
Renney is clueless and I don't believe a word that comes out of his trap.
As far as Ortmeyer, I hope he's not on this team next year because he's very replaceable. Immonen is a top 2 line center? So YOU are typecasting him into what you want him to be? That's the problem with half of the posters here... they expect each player to be their potential. If Jarkko can score and play defensively responsible (as he has) then he IS a good fit on this team.
Not to mention he looked very good on the PP centering the second unit. Again Renney has no idea how to use the kid so he sends him down. Has to play worthless scrubs like Ortmeyer, Orr, and Hall in his place. Three guys that couldn't fetch a 5th rd pick combined.
Renney is clueless and I don't believe a word that comes out of his trap.
As far as Ortmeyer, I hope he's not on this team next year because he's very replaceable. Immonen is a top 2 line center? So YOU are typecasting him into what you want him to be? That's the problem with half of the posters here... they expect each player to be their potential. If Jarkko can score and play defensively responsible (as he has) then he IS a good fit on this team.
Not to mention he looked very good on the PP centering the second unit. Again Renney has no idea how to use the kid so he sends him down. Has to play worthless scrubs like Ortmeyer, Orr, and Hall in his place. Three guys that couldn't fetch a 5th rd pick combined.
He is simply not a checking center...or at least...if he is....just about every other 3rd line center in the NHL is better...I'd rather have the 4 centers we have now with J Ward as 4...rather than throwin Jarko in there. The way Hall has played maybe you can say that. Orr is not a great NHL player....but he does his job as best he can...which is simply the dirty work....something that needs to be appreciated...and ya can't ask more from Jed...guy almost died and he's back out there busting his butt. You can roll the dice with a line full of skaters...and scorers....and try and outscore each of your opponents...I'll go with a team though...my share of scorers, my share of playmakers-assist men, my share of grinders, my share of agitators, my share of defensive forwards, my share of enforcer(s).
As far as Ortmeyer, I hope he's not on this team next year because he's very replaceable.
Unless the Rangers can upgrade Ortmeyer, by bringing in a guy who can back check, kill penalties and provide good energy shifts AND score, then why get rid of him? Jed is no All-Star, bu he does some nice things for this team that aren't as easily replaceable as you may think.
I hate to do it and I know people might get touchy but here is a reminder of what we're looking at (it'll fuel discussion):
Brian Leetch
Jarkko Immonen
Maxim Kondratiev
1st Round '04 (Lauri Korpikoski)
2nd Round '05 (eventually became Cliche and Flatt/Pyatt, not sure which).
Interesting look, eh.
Drats turned into Sykora for a half year. All for a guy who doesn't have a job this year. I think we did good.
MisterUnspoken:
Ortmeyer is fine in his 4th line roll. Would I take someone who could add some offense? sure.
TBBB:
Don't see how SOS was wrong about Immonen. Immo didn't impress me much, but he DOES deserve to be playing over Hall, who stinks. Deserves to play over Orr, obviously, because he is a BETTER PLAYER.
Please stop the "Orr has to play because hes all we've got" honestly, I'm just sick of seeing this said from you. Its nothing personal, I just totally disagree with it. Think we need an enforcer? Get one that could play, then MAYBE we could discuss if we "need" him or not. A goon cannot play hockey, you say. Well, that is what Orr is.
To all:
As for replacing Jagr's spot on the first line, the only player IMO who deserves to be bumped up from the bottom 6 is Hossa. You could move Prucha up on the top line, and put Hossa with Cullen and Shanny. Either way works. Personally I put Prucha on the top line since he seems to be getting his touch back, and insert Hossa on the 2nd line with Cullen and Shanahan. Hollweg/Betts/Hall, Isbister/Ward/Orts.
Sorry for the crowded post, didn't feel like quoting everyone.
Drats turned into Sykora for a half year. All for a guy who doesn't have a job this year. I think we did good.
MisterUnspoken:
Ortmeyer is fine in his 4th line roll. Would I take someone who could add some offense? sure.
TBBB:
Don't see how SOS was wrong about Immonen. Immo didn't impress me much, but he DOES deserve to be playing over Hall, who stinks. Deserves to play over Orr, obviously, because he is a BETTER PLAYER.
Please stop the "Orr has to play because hes all we've got" honestly, I'm just sick of seeing this said from you. Its nothing personal, I just totally disagree with it. Think we need an enforcer? Get one that could play, then MAYBE we could discuss if we "need" him or not. A goon cannot play hockey, you say. Well, that is what Orr is.
To all:
As for replacing Jagr's spot on the first line, the only player IMO who deserves to be bumped up from the bottom 6 is Hossa. You could move Prucha up on the top line, and put Hossa with Cullen and Shanny. Either way works. Personally I put Prucha on the top line since he seems to be getting his touch back, and insert Hossa on the 2nd line with Cullen and Shanahan. Hollweg/Betts/Hall, Isbister/Ward/Orts.
Sorry for the crowded post, didn't feel like quoting everyone.
Has Isbister been recalled up?? Or will they play Pock as a forward???
I hate to do it and I know people might get touchy but here is a reminder of what we're looking at (it'll fuel discussion):
Brian Leetch
Jarkko Immonen
Maxim Kondratiev
1st Round '04 (Lauri Korpikoski) 2nd Round '05 (eventually became Cliche and Flatt/Pyatt, not sure which).
Interesting look, eh.
Actually, I believe that pick became Sauer. Remember the draft was done in a snake-like order. The Rangers were doomed to pick in the middle of the round. The Flyers' 2nd round pick was used to trade for Staal, and the Rangers own pick was used to trade down to get Cliche and Dupont.
As for replacing Jagr's spot on the first line, the only player IMO who deserves to be bumped up from the bottom 6 is Hossa. You could move Prucha up on the top line, and put Hossa with Cullen and Shanny. Either way works. Personally I put Prucha on the top line since he seems to be getting his touch back, and insert Hossa on the 2nd line with Cullen and Shanahan. Hollweg/Betts/Hall, Isbister/Ward/Orts.
I'd love to see those lines. Call me crazy but i would like to see the Isbister playing a game again!
As for replacing Jagr's spot on the first line, the only player IMO who deserves to be bumped up from the bottom 6 is Hossa. You could move Prucha up on the top line, and put Hossa with Cullen and Shanny. Either way works. Personally I put Prucha on the top line since he seems to be getting his touch back, and insert Hossa on the 2nd line with Cullen and Shanahan. Hollweg/Betts/Hall, Isbister/Ward/Orts.
I like the lines you posted FS. I think the first line wouldn't miss a step. I mean, Prucha is no Jagr, but I think that would still be a great line. The second line would be great, too, I think, with a good deal of grit. If Shanny gets hot and Cullen continues his solid play, that line could produce very well for us.
"He could be a top-line center in this league for somebody else, and I’m not suggesting that’s what we’re doing with him. I like the way Matt (Cullen) has been able to assimilate the position the last couple of games, so I want to stick with that," said Renney. "That sort of shuffles Jarkko down the lineup and that has diminishing effects over time. I like putting offense on that fourth line, but I just don’t feel comfortable with that just yet at this point in time. I think he’s got to play a bit more and be in a position to come back and offer that up.”
Don't think I agree with Tom. Immo is responsible defensively, so what's the drawback of playing him with Ward and Orts on the wings? This would bring the added benefit of bumping Hossa up to the 3rd line, and giving Hall a sit in the press-box. According to the coaches, Pock learned a lot watching the game from upstairs. Why not accelerate Hall's education?
"He could be a top-line center in this league for somebody else, and I’m not suggesting that’s what we’re doing with him. I like the way Matt (Cullen) has been able to assimilate the position the last couple of games, so I want to stick with that," said Renney. "That sort of shuffles Jarkko down the lineup and that has diminishing effects over time. I like putting offense on that fourth line, but I just don’t feel comfortable with that just yet at this point in time. I think he’s got to play a bit more and be in a position to come back and offer that up.”
Don't think I agree with Tom. Immo is responsible defensively, so what's the drawback of playing him with Ward and Orts on the wings? This would bring the added benefit of bumping Hossa up to the 3rd line, and giving Hall a sit in the press-box. According to the coaches, Pock learned a lot watching the game from upstairs. Why not accelerate Hall's education?
thank you ... someone said it .... after 3 games people will start bashing hossa agin bc he isnt producing and they forget what he is .... a 4th line PKer
Actually, I believe that pick became Sauer. Remember the draft was done in a snake-like order. The Rangers were doomed to pick in the middle of the round. The Flyers' 2nd round pick was used to trade for Staal, and the Rangers own pick was used to trade down to get Cliche and Dupont.
Ahh, was that it? Ok.
So many picks, so many trades. It's hard to keep track of who, what and where.
Still a sobering looking.
Really, as a trading partner, Toronto might not have been the best place. Coliacovo, the guy most people wanted from Toronto, including myself has had so many injury problems that it stalls the momentum he starts to take hold of after some good play.
WHY IS HOSSA STILL IN THE LINEUP AND GUYS LIKE IMMONENT AND DAWES ARE NOT????
Any of you look at Hossa's point totals this season:
41 Games Played
1 Goal
2 Assists
-9
I don't care how slow Immonen is(not much slower than Hossa), the fact remains that Immonen's totals are MUCH better:
11 Games Played
1 Goal
3 Assists
-2
Don't forget that Immonen is MUCH better defensively and also a better play-maker too! How the hell can Renney not TRUST Immonen on the 3rd or 4th line but trust Hossa on those lines????
Last edited by Evgeny Oliker: 01-09-2007 at 04:16 PM.
While i don't disagree with your thinking Immonen should be in the lineup, Hossa has for the time earned his spot.
He has been flawless on the puck. he's had alot of chances, I have good feelings for him. If he starts being a little wuss again and forgets he's not that small, then fine scratch him. But for now, if Jagrs out of the lineup,*still hypothetical* I am not opposed to moving Hossa up to line 1. (Though I would prefer prucha up there)
is it abit discouraging that the guy who deserves to be bumped up is Hossa, who has 1 goal, three points in 41 games and is a -9?
It is, but its also the truth. I honestly don't understand how he doesn't score more, he looks very good out there sometimes, and that sometimes has been lately. Hall stinks, and Hossa fits better than Hollweg on the 2nd line, IMO. I mean unless you want to have Betts center line 2 and move Cullen to wing, but we all know that won't work.. Do you think someone else deserves the promotion?
If Jagr was to miss 2-3 weeks, then we could bring up Dawes or something, but for quick patchwork I think my lines are fine.
2forsberg: Not sure why you're knocking Hossa's defense. He is fine in his zone, I'm never worried he is going to make a silly defensive mistake. Hall deserves to sit, not Hossa. Hall shows NOTHING.
I'm a big advocate against using +/- as a measure of one's defensive abilities. I use it as a too, however. In Hossa, it means his line doesn't score much, and part of that is a reflection on him. He's had a lot of ice time in a lot of games and has three points. He doesn't shut down top lines on a regular basis and many of his shifts aren't against top lines. The bottom six need to score more, and I think that's the bottom line.
Drats turned into Sykora for a half year. All for a guy who doesn't have a job this year. I think we did good.
MisterUnspoken:
Ortmeyer is fine in his 4th line roll. Would I take someone who could add some offense? sure.
TBBB:
Don't see how SOS was wrong about Immonen. Immo didn't impress me much, but he DOES deserve to be playing over Hall, who stinks. Deserves to play over Orr, obviously, because he is a BETTER PLAYER.
Please stop the "Orr has to play because hes all we've got" honestly, I'm just sick of seeing this said from you. Its nothing personal, I just totally disagree with it. Think we need an enforcer? Get one that could play, then MAYBE we could discuss if we "need" him or not. A goon cannot play hockey, you say. Well, that is what Orr is.
To all:
As for replacing Jagr's spot on the first line, the only player IMO who deserves to be bumped up from the bottom 6 is Hossa. You could move Prucha up on the top line, and put Hossa with Cullen and Shanny. Either way works. Personally I put Prucha on the top line since he seems to be getting his touch back, and insert Hossa on the 2nd line with Cullen and Shanahan. Hollweg/Betts/Hall, Isbister/Ward/Orts.
Sorry for the crowded post, didn't feel like quoting everyone.
I'm not gonna go get one because I'm very satisfied with what Orr brings us. You don't think he cuts it then you can find one? Do I think we need one? I KNOW we do...and so do all other people who watch this soft team play. The rest I pretty much agree wth
WHY IS HOSSA STILL IN THE LINEUP AND GUYS LIKE IMMONENT AND DAWES ARE NOT????
Any of you look at Hossa's point totals this season:
41 Games Played
1 Goal
2 Assists
-9
I don't care how slow Immonen is(not much slower than Hossa), the fact remains that Immonen's totals are MUCH better:
11 Games Played
1 Goal
3 Assists
-2
Don't forget that Immonen is MUCH better defensively and also a better play-maker too! How the hell can Renney not TRUST Immonen on the 3rd or 4th line but trust Hossa on those lines????
Hossa has been very strong with the puck the past couple of games. He has been unlucky with the shots the past couple of games, but he is creating chances. Hossa is staying.
.
