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Decisions need to be made, but which ones?

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Old
12-11-2013, 02:24 PM
  #101
Lindberg
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New member here! From what I've seen so far and I've watched about 50% of the games (moved across the country) is more than anything the flyers need a defenseman who isn't afraid to move through the neutral zone and carry the puck into the offensive zone. It seems like everytime the puck goes to the defenseman in the flyers zone they immediately want to throw the puck back into the neutral zone if they have any sort of coverage. Coburn seems to be the only player able to move the puck yet refuses to do so. If it was up to me I'd keep Giroux, Mason and the Couturier line together.

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12-11-2013, 02:38 PM
  #102
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The flyers have enough ammo for a big trade if need be, much more than they did at the time of the Pronger trade. Two of B. Schenn, Simmonds, or Voracek and one of morin or Hagg. You could move L Schenn or Gus too but I question their actual worth. I'd imagine that could get you a very good defensemen if not multiple pieces. Laughton can take 2nd line center, Lecavalier can take a RW position and the flyers would still have three NHL d-prospects in the cupboard before they even draft this year. They would just have to sign a top 6 winger in free agency.

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Old
12-12-2013, 08:30 AM
  #103
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Enough is enough. It's not just about our defense that is a mixture of aging smallish Veterans and bruisers that are slow by definition but also the forwards who not only fail to score on a regular basis but who stop skating and refuse to back-check.

On defense: Streit should sit in the pressbox along with Mesz. Personally, I don't give up on Luke Schenn yet. He has been their best defenseman last season when playing with the other prospects at the end of the season with all the injuries and may still have a future with the club.

As far as fowards are concerned right now... demote one of Hartnell and Simmonds, waive Rosehill to make room for McGinn and call up Akeson.

Most important: push hard to get the major move done that sends B. Schenn and/or Voracek+ to some Western conference team for a stud defenseman asap. Make a decision on Laughton soon. If we don't want him on the team as a center, include him in the package for D or trade him in a 1 : 1 for a young prospect sniper.

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Old
12-12-2013, 09:33 AM
  #104
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Holmgren shouldn't be the one making decisions any longer......his inability to assemble the proper mix of players with skill that meshes is plain as day anymore.

This team is freakin slow and the few players with speed that we have refuse to use it with any consistency. The Flyers totally look overmatched against fast teams like Tampa and Chicago. They have very little moblility among the D corp and not enough skill up front. This team is a mediocre team at best and a sub .500 team when the wheels fall off. In short, they are not a playoff team. This could be 2 years in a row for that.....time for Mr Holmgren to step aside and a Fresh Perspective....

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Old
12-12-2013, 02:13 PM
  #105
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we should get two young guys like hossa,sharp for the future to play with couturier, laughton slide to the 3rd line with read,downie and try to build a solid defense

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12-12-2013, 04:42 PM
  #106
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Depending on how close they are, but I keep thinking this (might be saved for the off-season):

Schenns + Simmonds for Edler, Jansen and Shinkaruk.

Jansen and Shinkaruk are both hard working, quick and have some really good scoring hands. Plus, they will play wings.

Just an idea.

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Old
12-12-2013, 05:15 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Depending on how close they are, but I keep thinking this (might be saved for the off-season):

Schenns + Simmonds for Edler, Jansen and Shinkaruk.

Jansen and Shinkaruk are both hard working, quick and have some really good scoring hands. Plus, they will play wings.

Just an idea.
I'm not really all that high on Shinkaruk.

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Old
12-12-2013, 05:20 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Blaaah View Post
I'm not really all that high on Shinkaruk.
And I'm not really all that high on Edler.

Nucks fans want him gone. I've never gotten the hype about him.
He's a #3 in my book. Not something I'd trade B.Schenn for.

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12-12-2013, 05:25 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
And I'm not really all that high on Edler.

Nucks fans want him gone. I've never gotten the hype about him.
He's a #3 in my book. Not something I'd trade B.Schenn for.
Edler is Vancouver's Coburn. You can see how great Edler can be when he plays at top form, but he is wildly inconsistent.

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Old
12-15-2013, 09:17 AM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Depending on how close they are, but I keep thinking this (might be saved for the off-season):

Schenns + Simmonds for Edler, Jansen and Shinkaruk.

Jansen and Shinkaruk are both hard working, quick and have some really good scoring hands. Plus, they will play wings.

Just an idea.

I would rather trade both of the Schenns for JVR and Gardiner.
I see it as a win-win for both us and Toronto.
They need a center, we have extra centers.
We need a better winger, and Gardiner is an improvement over Luke Schenn.
Even if we had to add a pick to make it look better to Toronto, I would do it.

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12-15-2013, 09:42 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
I would rather trade both of the Schenns for JVR and Gardiner.
I see it as a win-win for both us and Toronto.
They need a center, we have extra centers.
We need a better winger, and Gardiner is an improvement over Luke Schenn.
Even if we had to add a pick to make it look better to Toronto, I would do it.
Unless you're adding our first, Toronto would rightfully laugh at that proposal.

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Old
12-15-2013, 12:16 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
Unless you're adding our first, Toronto would rightfully laugh at that proposal.

Why?
Both of the Schenn's were higher first round picks than JVR and Gardiner were if I
remember correctly.

They seem to value Gardiner like we do Luke Schenn, so I do not think our 1st rounder would be necessary.
If they would accept a 2nd or 3rd rounder I think that would be acceptable.

In addition, the Leafs would have the added benefit of having both brothers together.
Some posters on the Leafs wanted them to keep Luke and think JVR is overrated.


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Old
12-15-2013, 12:30 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Why?
Both of the Schenn's were higher first round picks than JVR and Gardiner were if I
remember correctly.

They seem to value Gardiner like we do Luke Schenn, so I do not think our 1st rounder would be necessary.
If they would accept a 2nd or 3rd rounder I think that would be acceptable.

In addition, the Leafs would have the added benefit of having both brothers together.
Some posters on the Leafs wanted them to keep Luke and think JVR is overrated.
JVR was a 2nd overall pick

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Old
12-15-2013, 12:45 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by bauerhockey02 View Post
JVR was a 2nd overall pick
JVR and Gardiner are also better than Schenn and Schenn.

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12-15-2013, 12:54 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
Edler is Vancouver's Coburn. You can see how great Edler can be when he plays at top form, but he is wildly inconsistent.
Very true. There are differences though. Edler has an offensive upside when at his best that Coburn will probably never have and he has six years left on his contract as opposed to three for Coburn. Both including this season.

I'd have no problem just with Edler being on our team, but it's not as simple as that because people don't want to pay a premium for what is realistically a struggling number three D on a long-term contract.

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12-15-2013, 01:23 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
JVR and Gardiner are also better than Schenn and Schenn.
This is true as well

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Old
12-15-2013, 01:52 PM
  #117
Larry Hoover
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Leafs fan here...

Gardiner has really turned his game around. Going into this season, after his monstrous playoffs where he was the 2nd best D on the ice for both teams (behind only Chara), we had very high expectations for him. We thought he would finally be that #2/#3 minute eating guy who can get 40 points. He had a relatively slow start and finally, after a game against the Blue Jackets were he made quite a few mistakes, he was scratched. That was like 6 or 7 games ago.

Carlyle pulled Gardiner aside and they went over a lot of video about what Gardiner was doing in the playoffs and why he was struggling now. Since then, Gardiner has been an absolute beast for the Leafs. He's starting to be more physical, making crisper passes, taking less risks and producing much more.

The guy seems to be extremely snake bitten, always gets the 3rd assist (take last night for example), but he's really turned it around. Since being scratched he's averaging about 25 minutes in ice time and has points in 6 of the last 7 games.

A few weeks ago I would have considered a Jake Gardiner for Brayden Schenn trade. I value Sean Couturier over B. Schenn. But I think I, and the rest of the Leafs fans, have forgotten how good Gardiner can be when he's playing well. For us to deal Gardiner to you guys, it would have to be a deal that involves Couturier. I would consider something around Gardiner + Fraser + 2nd or something for the Schenn's, but I doubt Flyers fans have much interest in that. Even still, I'm not sure I'd pull the trigger.

I don't think Gardiner will ever be a true #1, he doesn't have the 2-way game to do that or the offensive talents of Erik Karlsson. He is however a possession machine and I think should be getting between 40-50 points. He's starting to learn how to be physical but he needs more of a sense of urgency in his game. Sometimes he looks too relaxed and that can bite him whether it's while being forechecked after a dump-in or gap control when going 1 on 1.

Over the last few games, he has looked like a legitimate #2 though.

If you guys are interested in him because you think he can be a #1, don't be. That's not his game. But he does have top pairing potential. Put him with a guy who is defence first and let Gardiner play his game and you have an excellent young player.

By the way, JvR is in no way shape or form available and I don't think any Leafs fans think he's overrated him like one poster suggested.

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12-15-2013, 02:50 PM
  #118
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Please go away Leaf's fan.

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Old
12-15-2013, 02:53 PM
  #119
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Please go away Leaf's fan.

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Old
12-15-2013, 03:36 PM
  #120
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why is everyone so high on brayden schenn the kid is NOT GOOD AND WILL NEVER BE GOOD kid had a decent year last year he's got trade value use that **** b4 it runs out he looks horrible out there he is NOT fast has mediocre hands and an ok shot ... oh he will throw a hit and fight (which he always loses ) but you say you wouldn't trade him for elder wow i wonder if some people think b4 they talk

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12-15-2013, 03:44 PM
  #121
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I rather have traded the Schenns for Seguin the past off-season. Seeing as we are in the middle of the season now, I would prefer to not make any moves; at least until a new GM is in place.

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12-15-2013, 03:48 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
JVR and Gardiner are also better than Schenn and Schenn.
Fine, JVR may have more potential value than Brayden Schenn.
And you may think that Gardiner is better than Luke Schenn.
With young players it may take time to see which are the better players in a trade.
JVR is not a center, and Luke is not a PMD, thats why the trade made no sense, IMHO.
Toronto needs a Center, Brayden could fill that role for them.
Both of the Schenn's were first round picks as well.
I would be willing to add a pick to the deal if necessary to make it work for the Leafs.
Not a First rounder, because in my opinion JVR is not alot better than Brayden.

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12-15-2013, 03:51 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Fine, JVR may have more potential value than Brayden Schenn.
And you may think that Gardiner is better than Luke Schenn.
With young players it may take time to see which are the better players in a trade.
Toronto needs a Center, Brayden could fill that role for them.
Both of the Schenn's were first round picks as well.
I would be willing to add a pick to the deal if necessary to make it work for the Leafs.
Not a First rounder, because in my opinion JVR is not alot better than Brayden.
lol you made a funny

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Old
12-15-2013, 05:23 PM
  #124
DecadesofFutility
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Originally Posted by DecadesofFutility View Post
Fine, JVR may have more potential value than Brayden Schenn.
And you may think that Gardiner is better than Luke Schenn.
With young players it may take time to see which are the better players in a trade.
JVR is not a center, and Luke is not a PMD, thats why the trade made no sense, IMHO.
Toronto needs a Center, Brayden could fill that role for them.
Both of the Schenn's were first round picks as well.
I would be willing to add a pick to the deal if necessary to make it work for the Leafs.
Not a First rounder, because in my opinion JVR is not alot better than Brayden.

Not adverse to adding another player with the Schenn brothers for Jake Gardiner and JVR.
Simmonds and Hartnell both come to mind as options to add.
I would not give away 1st round picks to Toronto in a deal for Gardiner.
Flyers need to use their 1st round picks more wisely, not give them away in trades.

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Old
12-15-2013, 05:27 PM
  #125
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lol you made a funny
I will admit that JVR is playing much better than Schenn this year.
Of course, next year it could be a different story, JVR could revert to his
typically streaky scoring or slump like the entire Flyers offense is this year.

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