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NYC is Why the Rangers Suck

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Old
12-12-2013, 09:36 PM
  #1
Synergy27
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NYC is Why the Rangers Suck

First of all, this is not an excuse thread. I admit to being anti-Tortorella, and to believing that there was untapped offensive potential in last year's roster, and I'm now willing to admit that I was wrong. That said, I've done a lot of thinking over the years about possible reasons why the Rangers always seem to suck besides the obvious things like poor management and roster construction and I'm curious to see if you guys think there is any merit to a thought I have that it all traces back to one thing:

New York City

Now, it's pretty easy to blow up this argument by simply pointing uptown to the Yankees, but I think NYC itself is a major contributor to the Rangers perennial mediocrity for the following reasons:

1. Distractions - particularly for young players. There is just way too much to get into and too many opportunities for people from all walks of life to do things other than focus on their job here, especially when they're rich. These guys are also largely anonymous in NYC so they can get away with things they couldn't in a smaller, more hockey focused city. Isn't this why the dominant early 90s team needed to be Oiler-fied to finally get over the hump in '94? Do we really want to blow it up and bring in a bunch of high-potential kids with no guidance in place?

2. Motivated opponents. Rookie scores his first NHL goal. Backup goalie channels Patrick Roy. Is it possible that opposing players just "get up" more to play in NYC (and against a "storied" original 6 franchise) than they do in say Tampa, or Nashville? MSG claims to be the world's most famous arena, so do players try harder or do more to put on a show here than they might in other cities? Can this "phenomenon" also explain why the Maple Leafs haven't won in 45+ years?

3. Sponsor/Entertainment Competition Pressure. Maybe they really can't afford to go through a true rebuild because of business deals that are in place, or for fear that people will simply go find something else to do. I am firmly aware of the "dark days" pre-first lockout and the fact that attendance wasn't impacted all that much, but those teams were making splashes in free agency and at least trying to be good every season. What would happen if they made a real, honest commitment to rebuilding, jettisoned all the big name veterans, and finished in the lottery several times over a 5 year stretch. Would NYC still care about the team?

4. The MSG ice. We all know about this one, and it was very evident tonight. The ice at MSG sucks and certainly doesn't help guys who lack elite level skill to consistently complete the necessary plays to sustain offense.

Anyway, these are just some thoughts I wanted to share with you guys. Maybe I'm just looking for excuses and don't want to face the reality that we've just wasted a decade+ with a **** GM, but I do feel as though points one and two at least have some merit from a human psychology perspective.

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12-12-2013, 09:40 PM
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SingnBluesOnBroadway
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Sather to fire NYC e5.

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12-12-2013, 09:44 PM
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Yeah, playing in NYC sure seems to kill all the new york teams. Especially the Yankees, the winningest baseball team in the history of the sport.

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12-12-2013, 09:45 PM
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Sather to fire NYC e5.
Sather to trade MSG ice and a first rounder for artificial turf. E5

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12-12-2013, 09:45 PM
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What about Montreal, Toronto, LA, Chicago?

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12-12-2013, 09:46 PM
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Stuck on suck.

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12-12-2013, 09:48 PM
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McD27
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Is that the reason Slats sucked as GM too?

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12-12-2013, 09:53 PM
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trilobyte
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Originally Posted by Swedish Fish View Post
What about Montreal, Toronto, LA, Chicago?
That is a good question. So, logically, the next question is does NYR coddle their players too much, or in any way contribute to the team's lack of focus on hockey, and any possible lack of dedication to the purpose

Does the size and grandeur of a city as great as New York necessarily equate to athletes losing their drive?

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12-12-2013, 09:54 PM
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stan the caddy
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Originally Posted by Swedish Fish View Post
What about Montreal, Toronto, LA, Chicago?
A large portion of NYers think that NYC is the only major sports market.

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12-12-2013, 10:06 PM
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Synergy27
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Originally Posted by Swedish Fish View Post
What about Montreal, Toronto, LA, Chicago?
I actually referenced Toronto in part of the post and asked if maybe they are up against a similar phenomenon. This might be NYC bias talking (I really don't like NYC by the way), but L.A. and Chicago don't seem to be as polarizing/awe inspiring as NYC to me. I don't have an explanation for Montreal, but they haven't exactly been a model for success either since the league expanded and became "fair".

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12-12-2013, 10:10 PM
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TheRightWay
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Cool. Now explain the Yankees.

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12-12-2013, 10:21 PM
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Occam's razor says that the problem is Dolan and Sather. I don't believe in curses or theories about how New York contains some magical mix of factors holding its teams back. I believe in bad management.

The idea that some historical or environmental factor beyond ownership and management is holding us back is bunk. Look at the Red Sox. There was no curse. The second they got an ownership group that prioritized intelligent management they started racking up the wins.

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12-12-2013, 10:23 PM
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Synergy27
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Originally Posted by TheRightWay View Post
Cool. Now explain the Yankees.
I love how I directly state that the Yankees might blow up my argument in the post yet several people go right to them instead of trying to have a discussion. But hell, maybe I'll try anyway:

1. Baseball is much more popular than hockey, therefore the players are more famous and can't get away with as much in the way of extra-curriculars.

2. Baseball is an easier sport physically. Didn't David Wells pitch a perfect game while drunk/hungover?

3. The extra money available to spend for big market teams is a real advantage in baseball because it's a largely individual sport where "chemistry" doesn't really matter.

Cool?

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12-12-2013, 10:25 PM
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trilobyte
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Originally Posted by Zil View Post
Occam's razor says that the problem is Dolan and Sather. I don't believe in curses or theories about how New York contains some magical mix of factors holding its teams back. I believe in bad management.

The idea that some historical or environmental factor beyond ownership and management is holding us back is bunk. Look at the Red Sox. There was no curse. The second they got an ownership group that prioritized intelligent management they started racking up the wins.
Yeah, I agree with you.

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Old
12-12-2013, 10:26 PM
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Synergy27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zil View Post
Occam's razor says that the problem is Dolan and Sather. I don't believe in curses or theories about how New York contains some magical mix of factors holding its teams back. I believe in bad management.

The idea that some historical or environmental factor beyond ownership and management is holding us back is bunk. Look at the Red Sox. There was no curse. The second they got an ownership group that prioritized intelligent management they started racking up the wins.
I agree, and am in no way trying to equate these things to a curse or something like that, I just think that these extra factors might very well be real and could be the difference between good/mediocre and mediocre/bad. The fact that Toronto has been so inept as well is really what put me on this thought.

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12-12-2013, 10:29 PM
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JeffMangum
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Giants have been successful, too. All it takes is competent management, and that's what the Yankees/Giants have/had for years.

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12-12-2013, 10:32 PM
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ck20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synergy27 View Post
I actually referenced Toronto in part of the post and asked if maybe they are up against a similar phenomenon. This might be NYC bias talking (I really don't like NYC by the way), but L.A. and Chicago don't seem to be as polarizing/awe inspiring as NYC to me. I don't have an explanation for Montreal, but they haven't exactly been a model for success either since the league expanded and became "fair".
NYC has a more storied history than the Rangers organization itself and that's why it's a more alluring destination to non-NYers. Influential and massive hub for fashion, economics/trade, immigration, etcetc for decades upon decades. I always find it entertaining talking to someone who's never been to NYC before and just watching them light up at any mention of anywhere in the city.

I've been wondering the same though, if playing in NYC really desensitizes players or if it's such a huge distraction that they have to focus all their energy on not focusing on city life. If out-of-town players get even a little of that glimmer that I notice in tiny interactions with people..put that up against someone who has grew up/lived and trained with MSG as their backyard for ~6-7+ years and (more or less) takes everything here for granted..there probably really isn't that shiny luster to playing in MSG to them anymore. So you have these other teams coming in, super amped to see all the buildings and lights and stores and then you have the Rangers who just play like everything is old and tired.

Essentially the Rangers are like a bunch of ****ing hipsters from SoHo. "Winning? Wow that was such a pre-post-post-modern concept from like 3 years ago. Get over yourself." Factor in Lundqvist's restaurant in Tribecca..could explain a lot.

Also no one cared about the Rangers during the 11-12 season. If the team was going through an honest-to-goodness rebuild, not a single person would bat an eyelash.

I'd imagine the Yankees had an owner that gave two ***** about the team and that's how they won.

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12-12-2013, 10:32 PM
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Zil
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Originally Posted by Synergy27 View Post
I agree, and am in no way trying to equate these things to a curse or something like that, I just think that these extra factors might very well be real and could be the difference between good/mediocre and mediocre/bad. The fact that Toronto has been so inept as well is really what put me on this thought.
Chicago is relatively similar to us as a hockey market. When the Blackhawks are good they get tons of attention and when they're bad they get ignored in favor of the Bulls, Bears, Cubs, etc. Bill Wirtz squeezed the life out of that team for decades. He leaves the picture and a modern management group comes in and suddenly BOOM: They win two cups and turn into a perennial juggernaut.

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12-12-2013, 10:34 PM
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Synergy27
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Giants have been successful, too. All it takes is competent management, and that's what the Yankees/Giants have/had for years.
Again, just fostering conversation here, but the Rangers are the only team that plays in Manhattan. The Knicks do as well, obviously, but no one is going to point to them as an example to refute the hypothesis. Do most of the Giants live in the city?

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12-12-2013, 10:37 PM
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Thirty One
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Giants have been successful, too. All it takes is competent management, and that's what the Yankees/Giants have/had for years.
Yankees management are dummies. Cashman is a tard.

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12-12-2013, 10:42 PM
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Synergy27
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Originally Posted by ck20 View Post
I've been wondering the same though, if playing in NYC really desensitizes players or if it's such a huge distraction that they have to focus all their energy on not focusing on city life. If out-of-town players get even a little of that glimmer that I notice in tiny interactions with people..put that up against someone who has grew up/lived and trained with MSG as their backyard for ~6-7+ years and (more or less) takes everything here for granted..there probably really isn't that shiny luster to playing in MSG to them anymore. So you have these other teams coming in, super amped to see all the buildings and lights and stores and then you have the Rangers who just play like everything is old and tired.
Yeah, this is what I'm getting at. NYC inspires emotions in people, good or bad, that other cities simply do not. I know tons of people from all over the country (and even the world I guess) who either love or hate this place. I'm sure this extends to hockey players, and I'm thinking that they either come into the city just super excited to be there and play there or with a chip on their shoulder and a desire to prove that NYC really isn't anything special or something to be intimidated by. I'd imagine that Toronto would be the equivalent for Canadians, hence this thought.

Don't get me wrong though, I am completely on-board with the fact that a modern, competent, hockey focused management team is priority #1. I just think that there is a real, slightly intangible element that makes it harder to win in NYC if all else was equal.

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12-12-2013, 10:49 PM
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The problem isn't NYC so much as it is the NYR management.

Rangers sign guys to "retirement" contracts so they can get paid big $ to play in the big city. These guys have already won their cup elsewhere and they turn to NYC for the big payout and a great place to live as a relatively anonymous millionaire. Brad Richards is young, rich, single, and in the biggest city in the world, he has a cup, he has a conn smythe. I'm not saying brad's not a professional or that he doesn't have the will to win, but look at how he spent the offseason during the lockout.

Its human nature, and FA after FA like richards cant help but get sucked into the NYC limelight because they could care less about winning compared to the other stuff NYC has to offer.The yankees and giants are truely well run organizations who draft well and instill a certain identity from day one. The rangers have one cup in 74 ****ing years. The yankees and giants, they draft players who have 'it'. We draft Jessiman, Brendl, Sanguinetti or on better days Callahan, Staal, Stepan. Look at the guys we have passed up in the draft, people here complain when that gets brought up but I am sorry, look at how teams win in this league, it's not by signing goalies to $8.5 million dollar contracts or bringing in brad ****ing richards to play till hes 40.

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Old
12-12-2013, 10:53 PM
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To have a winning franchise you need:
A. Caring and Demanding Ownership
B. Smart and Efficient GM (not impulsive)
C. Solid Drafting
D. Solid farm system
E. Core of talent/leaders
F. Consistent leadership from coaching

We do not have A or B and E has been separated past few years due to injuries and trades. Our franchise needs consistency! Pick a formula for winning and STICK TO IT!

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12-12-2013, 11:14 PM
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....oh sorry, OP. You were saying?

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12-12-2013, 11:19 PM
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They are also way too pampered in the new remodelled garden, it's a big luxury country club for them now

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