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Old
12-12-2013, 12:43 PM
  #276
SolidSnakeUS
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You know what, I'd love to see Simmonds take Hartnell's place on the first line, and see what happens.

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12-12-2013, 12:45 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
Voracek has been crap this year. No doubt about that. But there seems to be a certainty that Giroux is going to bounce back and is not in any trade proposals, but Voracek is listed a trade candidate, supposedly holding Giroux back and no one seems to have confidence that he can bounce back.

Meanwhile, Voracek, 24, who helped Giroux last year and not the other way around is signed for almost half the cap hit. If Voracek struggles next season, count me worried a bit (still a decent cap hit). If Giroux struggles next year, he has a monster contract and I am scared to death.
We need a sniper. Voracek is far from a sniper. Who else has value? Only the other guys who get tossed around as candidates besides Voracek...Simmonds, and Schenn.

Giroux should absolutely NOT be in trade discussions.

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12-12-2013, 12:46 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
We need a sniper. Voracek is far from a sniper. Who else has value? Only the other guys who get tossed around as candidates besides Voracek...Simmonds, and Schenn.

Giroux should absolutely NOT be in trade discussions.
I think Voracek CAN be a sniper, he just needs to ****ing shoot more. He's shown that he can pick a corner with the past couple of goals, but he just needs to shoot more (and get it through).

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12-12-2013, 12:47 PM
  #279
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I think Voracek CAN be a sniper, he just needs to ****ing shoot more. He's shown that he can pick a corner with the past couple of goals, but he just needs to shoot more (and get it through).
I don't think he is. His shot isn't very good at all.

Last year he had something like an 18% shooting percentage, and for his career he's something like 11%. We would need a 24 year old to suddenly change the playing style that comes natural to him and that he has refined his whole life. I consider that unlikely.

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12-12-2013, 12:53 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
Voracek has been crap this year. No doubt about that. But there seems to be a certainty that Giroux is going to bounce back and is not in any trade proposals, but Voracek is listed a trade candidate, supposedly holding Giroux back and no one seems to have confidence that he can bounce back.

Meanwhile, Voracek, 24, who helped Giroux last year and not the other way around is signed for almost half the cap hit. If Voracek struggles next season, count me worried a bit (still a decent cap hit). If Giroux struggles next year, he has a monster contract and I am scared to death.
Voracek shouldn't be in any trade proposals, but people should temper their expectations of him. A lot of people, myself included, expected him to come into this season with 70+ point potential and the ability to be the puck possession player on Giroux's wing. He hasn't done that. Not even close. If he doesn't start to play with some consistency, he's always only going to be a good second liner to average first liner. That sucks given his skill set is off the charts with natural talent.

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12-12-2013, 12:56 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
Voracek shouldn't be in any trade proposals, but people should temper their expectations of him. A lot of people, myself included, expected him to come into this season with 70+ point potential and the ability to be the puck possession player on Giroux's wing. He hasn't done that. Not even close. If he doesn't start to play with some consistency, he's always only going to be a good second liner to average first liner. That sucks given his skill set is off the charts with natural talent.
Yeah.

You need your first line players to be consistent. They can't disappear for half a season at a time. I find it extremely troubling.

He still has time to find that next gear and keep it locked in, but it isn't much time.

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12-12-2013, 12:59 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Yeah.

You need your first line players to be consistent. They can't disappear for half a season at a time. I find it extremely troubling.

He still has time to find that next gear and keep it locked in, but it isn't much time.
24 isn't exactly young by today's NHL standards. What's he producing at by the end of next year is probably what he'll be for most of his prime. Let's hope that he starts to put it all together and becomes that 60-80 point winger in the Hossa/Elias mold.

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12-12-2013, 01:11 PM
  #283
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24 isn't exactly young by today's NHL standards. What's he producing at by the end of next year is probably what he'll be for most of his prime. Let's hope that he starts to put it all together and becomes that 60-80 point winger in the Hossa/Elias mold.
As far as I can figure he's got basically two years to figure it out. The omen is bad.

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12-12-2013, 04:48 PM
  #284
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This is what I want to see again. Confidence, beating people one on one, hitting the net with a shot, going hard to the net, creativity. I do think a lot of it is mental.

As for the Hartnell in the video, him returning to that form may be a lost dream.

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12-12-2013, 04:52 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post


This is what I want to see again. Confidence, beating people one on one, hitting the net with a shot, going hard to the net, creativity. I do think a lot of it is mental.

As for the Hartnell in the video, him returning to that form may be a lost dream.
Oh hey, that's mine

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12-12-2013, 04:59 PM
  #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post


This is what I want to see again. Confidence, beating people one on one, hitting the net with a shot, going hard to the net, creativity. I do think a lot of it is mental.

As for the Hartnell in the video, him returning to that form may be a lost dream.
pronger

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Old
12-12-2013, 09:17 PM
  #287
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Giroux looked good against the habs. Maybe it's the line combos but he looked assertive and he knew exactly what he was going to do with the puck instead of stick handle a while and giving pucks away.

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12-13-2013, 12:28 AM
  #288
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Originally Posted by AaronTrieu View Post
Giroux looked good against the habs. Maybe it's the line combos but he looked assertive and he knew exactly what he was going to do with the puck instead of stick handle a while and giving pucks away.
The 2 points now gives him 23 points on a team with 72 goals-that means that he's responsible for contributing to about 32% of the team's offense, unless I'm doing the math wrong. Its possible cuz I haven't slept in a day, but in comparison-

Getzlaf- 38 points on a team with 108 goals- 35% of his team's offense with a shot % almost three times greater than Giroux's

Thornton- 32 points on a team with 103 goals for 31% of his team's offense, sh% again higher than Giroux's.

Phil Kessel- about 34-35% of his team's offense. This is a guy who was neck and neck with Giroux for most of the 11-12 season.

Ovechkin- about 36% of his team's offense.

Obviously Giroux isn't better than Ovechkin, but there are maybe 2 or 3 players in the entire league who can compete with OV when he's playing in a system that actually makes sense for him. So essentially, even on a year where he's snakebitten and missed preseason/had slow start, he'd likely be in the same league points-wise as getzlaf, kessel and the like on an actual team. And hey, both of those guys signed 8m+ long term contracts. I'm not going to say he's literally the least of the team's worries, because I'm fully on the Couturier train at this point, but he's going to be fine and barring some kind of Flyers curse, he's going to be great for years to come.

I don't think Voracek needs to be dumped but he's not playing very well this season. I do agree that expectations need to be lowered. That JVR kid over in Toronto has a better contract and will always be a better player, sure, but in a worst case scenario Voracek is probably a 20 goal 40-50 point guy. Unfortunately, a 40-50 point guy isn't the dude you want with your 8 million dollar centerman, so he's going to get some flak.

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Old
12-13-2013, 12:48 AM
  #289
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Giroux looked relieved Hartnell was off his line. Now with a legit playmaker like Raffl.

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Old
12-13-2013, 12:05 PM
  #290
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Edit- nevermind

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Old
12-19-2013, 09:35 PM
  #291
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30 in his last 30 now.

He also has 312 points in his last 312 post and regular season games. Pretty big sample size!

In terms of Olympics:

13th among Canadian forwards in points this year.

Joint 23rd in NHL scoring among forwards. Creeping up.

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12-19-2013, 09:44 PM
  #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff leonard View Post
The 2 points now gives him 23 points on a team with 72 goals-that means that he's responsible for contributing to about 32% of the team's offense, unless I'm doing the math wrong. Its possible cuz I haven't slept in a day, but in comparison-

Getzlaf- 38 points on a team with 108 goals- 35% of his team's offense with a shot % almost three times greater than Giroux's

Thornton- 32 points on a team with 103 goals for 31% of his team's offense, sh% again higher than Giroux's.

Phil Kessel- about 34-35% of his team's offense. This is a guy who was neck and neck with Giroux for most of the 11-12 season.

Ovechkin- about 36% of his team's offense.

Obviously Giroux isn't better than Ovechkin, but there are maybe 2 or 3 players in the entire league who can compete with OV when he's playing in a system that actually makes sense for him. So essentially, even on a year where he's snakebitten and missed preseason/had slow start, he'd likely be in the same league points-wise as getzlaf, kessel and the like on an actual team. And hey, both of those guys signed 8m+ long term contracts. I'm not going to say he's literally the least of the team's worries, because I'm fully on the Couturier train at this point, but he's going to be fine and barring some kind of Flyers curse, he's going to be great for years to come.

I don't think Voracek needs to be dumped but he's not playing very well this season. I do agree that expectations need to be lowered. That JVR kid over in Toronto has a better contract and will always be a better player, sure, but in a worst case scenario Voracek is probably a 20 goal 40-50 point guy. Unfortunately, a 40-50 point guy isn't the dude you want with your 8 million dollar centerman, so he's going to get some flak.
Don't be so sure about that. Voracek has had better stats so far in his career. He started off slow, but I'd take him over JVR any day of the week.

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Old
12-19-2013, 10:03 PM
  #293
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Don't be so sure about that. Voracek has had better stats so far in his career. He started off slow, but I'd take him over JVR any day of the week.
I'll agree with that, if he remembers that he's allowed to shoot.

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Old
12-20-2013, 03:01 AM
  #294
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Playing his way back onto team Canada.

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12-20-2013, 09:36 AM
  #295
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The highlight of Giroux's backhanded go-ahead goal should be shoved down every hockey fan's gullet between now and the end of ****ing time.

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12-20-2013, 09:41 AM
  #296
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Originally Posted by SCOREacek View Post
The highlight of Giroux's backhanded go-ahead goal should be shoved down every hockey fan's gullet between now and the end of ****ing time.
according to the expertd of HFBoards, it's not a very nice goal because the goalie played it terribly

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12-20-2013, 10:36 AM
  #297
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jumped up like 70 spots in scoring in a week. lol. Hes playing well. Just hope he can sustain it and hes passed whatever mental block he had.

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12-20-2013, 12:00 PM
  #298
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Just threw this together quickly:

Top players in team % (% of goals involved in in games they played):

Tavares: 45%
Crosby: 43%
Malkin: 41%
Datsyuk: 40%
Ovechkin: 39%
Zetterberg: 38%
Seguin: 37%
Hall: 37%
Giroux: 35%
Getzlaf: 35%
Staal: 35%
Okposo: 35%
Jagr: 35%
Hudler: 35%
Backstrom: 34%
St. Louis: 34%
Duchene: 33%
Kane: 33%
Little: 33%
B. Richards: 33%
Steen: 32%
Perry: 32%
Thornton: 32%
Kessel: 32%
D. Sedin: 32%
H. Sedin: 32%
Kunitz: 32%
Parise: 32%
Marleau: 31%
M. Koivu: 31%
Ryan: 31%
Eberle: 31%
Legwand: 31%
Johanson: 30%
Kopitar: 29%
Benn: 29%
Spezza: 28%
Pavelski: 27%
Backes: 27%
Couture: 27%
Sharp: 25%
Krejci: 25%
Toews: 24%

Pretty good company.


Last edited by Appleyard: 12-20-2013 at 12:05 PM.
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Old
12-20-2013, 12:11 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
according to the expertd of HFBoards, it's not a very nice goal because the goalie played it terribly
what if Mason gave up that goal? Many would be throwing Mason under the bus.
Dont get me wrong, I think it was a great goal but McElhinney could of been positioned better.
I wonder what Giroux was really trying to do there. out of the corner of his eye im sure he saw Hartnell going to the front of the net. Was he trying to get it to Hartnell or really put it on goal.

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12-20-2013, 12:46 PM
  #300
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according to the expertd of HFBoards, it's not a very nice goal because the goalie played it terribly
Anyone with half a brain knows that's one of the prettiest, best goals all time. That was beyond remarkable. And it was a game-winner to boot. The goalie was just caught off guard but it doesn't take away from it being a hell of a play.

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