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Diamond: Firing Barry Trotz wouldn't fix the Predators

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Old
12-12-2013, 02:27 PM
  #51
MarkMM
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Originally Posted by Stranger View Post
Where are the fire Poile articles then?
http://www.ontheforecheck.com/2013/1...=articlebottom

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12-12-2013, 03:51 PM
  #52
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With the teams uninspiring play this year, I have spent quite a bit of time posting on the politics board However for my ten thousandth post I'm coming back to the Preds board.

The the truth is firing trotz would not fix anything. Firing poile would not fix anything. The only thing that would fix this team is obtaining several new players who have the ability to score goals. Whether that can be accomplished by Poile, and whether if those players are obtained they can be successfully coached by trotz is a matter for debate.

But the fact remains, that unless Wilson, Smith, and at least two other players become 20 to 30 goalscorers, this team will be mediocre at best. If the current players cannot improve on their own, they must be replaced. That process obviously takes a while and is unlikely to happen in 1 or even 2 years. It will be interesting to see if the owners have the patience to allow Poile to try to pull this off, or decide to clear the decks and give someone else a chance.

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12-12-2013, 03:58 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
With the teams uninspiring play this year, I have spent quite a bit of time posting on the politics board However for my ten thousandth post I'm coming back to the Preds board.

The the truth is firing trotz would not fix anything. Firing poile would not fix anything. The only thing that would fix this team is obtaining several new players who have the ability to score goals. Whether that can be accomplished by Poile, and whether if those players are obtained they can be successfully coached by trotz is a matter for debate.

But the fact remains, that unless Wilson, Smith, and at least two other players become 20 to 30 goalscorers, this team will be mediocre at best. If the current players cannot improve on their own, they must be replaced. That process obviously takes a while and is unlikely to happen in 1 or even 2 years. It will be interesting to see if the owners have the patience to allow Poile to try to pull this off, or decide to clear the decks and give someone else a chance.
15 years isn't enough time

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12-12-2013, 04:11 PM
  #54
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Interesting dilemma on ending up with nothing for Hamhuis and Suter. Putting both situations back into the context those decisions were made, in both cases, Poile decided we were "going for it" in the playoffs by playing them instead of trading them and weakening the team going into the playoffs. Either move would have sent fans a negative message about our commitment to win in the playoffs in both of those years.

Hammer was different than Suter. We could have re-signed Hammer but didn't want to pay him $4mm a year. At that time, Webs and Suts were making $3.5mm each and Poile was saving his dry powder to lock them both up for the long term, high dollar contracts. Funny thing is, I asked Trotz what he thought it would take to lock them up. This was before the Webs arbitration and any thought of Suter following his man-crush on Parise. He said $7mm a year for many years for both. I remember being shocked that he felt Suter should get Weber bucks. At the time, Suter seemed one small level down from Webs. Not in Trotz eyes. He said he expected both to be in the HOF and wanted them to go in together as Preds. Anyway, paying Hammer $4mm for multiple years was viewed as not possible if we were planning on spending so much on the D position for Suts and Webs.

This was the first miscalculation by Poile. If he knew that Suter was going to bolt when he became a UFA, he would have likely re-signed Hammer.

Then when Suter wouldn't talk contract until the end of the 2011-12 season, we were in major "go for it mode". We got Goose, Gill, AK46, and Rads. We were as loaded as any Pred team except maybe 2007. If Poile had traded Suter at the trade deadline, he would have been fried by the fan base. The ultimate loss in the playoffs would have been blamed on him. We may have lost to the Wings instead of beating them in 5. I certainly understand the dilemma he was in and why he did what he did.

As a fan base, we will always blame Suter for misleading us, stringing us along, and whining to management about upgrading the team as a condition of his re-signing. Then after Poile becomes his be-otch, upgrades the team by pissing away a few more draft picks, and then rolls the Rads dice by taking just 10 games plus the playoffs as his last year before free agency instead of waiting and forcing him to play a full year if he wanted to come back to the NHL, Suter bleeps us.

So, instead of moving along to the Conference final with a stacked, win-now team, we lost to an inferior Yotes team, mishandled curfew-gate and let AK46 and Rads go for nothing, and of course missed out on that lying sack-of-spit Suter. Instead of a Mini-Pred-Level-Dynasty, we ended up with overpaid grinders, less draft picks to reload, a huge whole on defense and the weakening of our unique strength of 30-minutes-of-lock-down-D-Hell courtesy of Webs-Suts.

Poile's a good man and a good GM. We owe him a lot. However, the missteps above have put us where we are. Understanding the dilemma he was in doesn't excuse the results. He's paid to navigate this stuff and he screwed up with two of our brightest home grown stars (Suts and Rads). Then to make up for this, he's forced to give Webs the biggest contract in NHL D-man history. If he had signed Webs two years earlier instead of going to arbitration, we could have saved $50mm.

It pains me to be down on Poile but this is on him.

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12-12-2013, 04:32 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
15 years isn't enough time
In those 15 years Poile has obtained and drafted many good players, and Trotz has had quite a bit of regular season success with them. That is undeniable.

This is shaping up to be the first truly non-competitive team we have had since the 01-02 season. (last year doesnt count for a variety of reasons).

It all depends on the ownership. If they are patient and can tolerate a rebuild, I think Poile gets a mulligan and will be given the opportunity to try to fix this team this summer. In all honesty, he's earned that much.

Then the decision needs to be made as to whether Trotz can still effectively coach this team, or if the players we have (and are going to keep) have lost faith in him and are tuning him out. From everything I hear, the players mostly love the guy and would do anything for him, but that may not be the case after this seaon. If Poile is given another shot, I believe Trotz will be too.

If Poile is canned then obviously the new GM will want his own coach. I just dont see Poile firing Trotz without resigning himself.

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12-12-2013, 07:08 PM
  #56
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I wonder if Poile is planning on retiring after this season and the Olympics, and that is why Fenton hasn't gone anywhere.

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12-12-2013, 07:35 PM
  #57
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I have a suspicion, and it's something that ILI^2 touched on WRT Hammer and Suter.

Poile has a defenseman "blind spot" - and it's thanks to Scott Stevens. He got burned so badly over losing Stevens when he was in Washington, he gets gunshy when it comes to dealing high-quality d-men away before a contract year.

Unfortunately, every good defensive prospect apparently knows about this, and all but one of them successfully preyed on that weakness (the loner being Weber). Part of me thinks that if the ownership would have balked at re-signing Weber, Poile very well may have decided to resign. (I'm only speculating on that regard, of course.)

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12-12-2013, 08:14 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by predfan98 View Post
I wonder if Poile is planning on retiring after this season and the Olympics, and that is why Fenton hasn't gone anywhere.
I think this is the second year of a three year contract for Poile. I'm guessing that he will fulfill that deal then step aside.

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12-12-2013, 10:17 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
I think this is the second year of a three year contract for Poile. I'm guessing that he will fulfill that deal then step aside.
Huh? Lol.

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12-13-2013, 05:48 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Huh? Lol.
Not sure what you are laughing at Glenn. Poile and Fenton both signed three year extensions two years ago, and I suspect the understanding was that at the end of thst deal the job was Fenton's.

if you are laughing because you think Poile will be fired before that, i would be willing to bet a few adult beverages with you on that....

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12-13-2013, 06:03 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
Not sure what you are laughing at Glenn. Poile and Fenton both signed three year extensions two years ago, and I suspect the understanding was that at the end of thst deal the job was Fenton's.

if you are laughing because you think Poile will be fired before that, i would be willing to bet a few adult beverages with you on that....
Wasn't laughing at anything you said. I had to post something in a response to get rid of the dang email notifications and didn't want to respond in any way shape or form. Pay no mind to my comment.

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12-13-2013, 06:07 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Wasn't laughing at anything you said. I had to post something in a response to get rid of the dang email notifications and didn't want to respond in any way shape or form. Pay no mind to my comment.
Dont worry, glenn... I never do

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12-13-2013, 06:24 AM
  #63
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...And the GNASHIE for best backhanded put-down of the year goes to...


(Oh, wait, wrong boards, never mind.)

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