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Did Losing Dubinsky and Prust Crush the Rangers

View Poll Results: How significant was the loss of Dubinsky and Prust
Humongous. Losing them is why we have never been able to get the pieces of 2012 back. 43 26.22%
Missed, but not that major issue. 80 48.78%
Not really. 41 25.00%
Voters: 164. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-12-2013, 10:06 AM
  #151
DMPD
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Originally Posted by RangersHank View Post
Agreed 1000%. I cant really argue with people who say it was a fluke. Its just a ridiculous thing to say
I think it is ridiculous to say one way or the other whether or not that team was an anomoly. Sather tore it apart before they had a chance to prove they were for real.

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12-12-2013, 10:13 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Ive never once presented an argument stating that team won anything more than they actually won. They did overachieve, and they were an admirable team because of that. They played with pride, which is something I've rarely seen as a Ranger fan. The reason is keeps getting brought up is because people tend to believe we are in better shape now, which is a fallacy.

As for the media, Torts was a master at shielding his team from the media. He made it about himself. That rubbed some people the wrong way -- not me. Those vultures are nothing more than a distraction.
I would say even the most ardent and blind supporters of this franchise at this point would be hard pressed to argue this team is somehow in a better position currently.

With that being said, I think they have some pieces and the opportunity to put themselves in a better position for sustained success in the NHL as it is today, but once again because of ding dong Sather being the decision maker there, we can expect only the worst.

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12-12-2013, 10:35 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
I would say even the most ardent and blind supporters of this franchise at this point would be hard pressed to argue this team is somehow in a better position currently.

With that being said, I think they have some pieces and the opportunity to put themselves in a better position for sustained success in the NHL as it is today, but once again because of ding dong Sather being the decision maker there, we can expect only the worst.
Is this some sort of endorsement? You can say this about every single pro sports team.

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12-12-2013, 10:49 AM
  #154
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Makes sense. All i said was that he had no clue how the team would be.
Well it makes sense because like some here were saying, if you put a guy who has no track record for leading a team where he is being asked to do too much you have what we have now.

Now again to be fair, the argument could be made that he had plenty of support around him when he joined the team. "Look at what happened to Gabby, to Richie. No one saw that coming."

OK.

My point is guys like Nash, Richie and Gabby rely more on glue players like Dubinksy and Prust more than most people are willing to recognize. A lot of the teams identity revolved around those two guys.

Now it's clear that that part of what made that years team so successful has to be rebuilt and the cycle of never ending Rangers rebuilds goes on and on.

What some teams and their fan bases learn is that the mix is everything. The shiny toys are nice but only if well supported.

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12-12-2013, 10:52 AM
  #155
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Is this some sort of endorsement? You can say this about every single pro sports team.
Yes you probably can to an extent, but there will always be crossroads and times where unique opportunities arise. Good managment seizes them and follows through with a distinct plan. Bad management keeps doing the same **** over and over hoping they will eventually get it right. The Rangers have an opportunity now to build on their strengths and key players. They're between identities and I have no faith Glen will make the right moves, but the opportunity is there.

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12-12-2013, 11:01 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
If you didn't play hard under him, you didnt play. Seems like a good rule.

The mental midgets revolted, and now we're left with this -- a team that seems to think it can get by on skill but quite clearly cant.
In a nutshell, that is it,.

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12-12-2013, 11:51 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by letsmakeadeal View Post
You act like the team won something with Dubinsky and Prust. They won nothing. Squat.
They won things... Games (and our hearts ). At least we were over .500 and we believed the team usually cared if they played or not.

I get that the season isn't even half over, so my fingers are crossed in hopes that something happens.

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12-12-2013, 12:01 PM
  #158
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Yeah that team won nothing, except 61 total games, the most in almost 20 years.

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12-12-2013, 12:53 PM
  #159
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Yeah that team won nothing, except 61 total games, the most in almost 20 years.
What a bunch of loosers. They were not exciting. THIS is MUCH Better. The Rangers are loosing, but man oh man are they exciting losses. The sheer variety of the way that the opposition scores and skates around is SO awesome!!!

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12-12-2013, 12:57 PM
  #160
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You can say that team was greater than its parts, or that they were lucky. They were a good team, and good teams make their own luck. 6 wins away from a Cup, half the forwards gone in the offseason. Would they have won 51 games the next year? Who knows, maybe they only win 41, but maybe they make it to the Finals. I've seen better teams than that upset in the 1st round, year after year, the difference being they usually got more than 1 shot.

I miss that rosy cheeked ******* Feds, too, but alas. Got a 300k raise.


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12-12-2013, 01:31 PM
  #161
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What a bunch of loosers. They were not exciting. THIS is MUCH Better. The Rangers are loosing, but man oh man are they exciting losses. The sheer variety of the way that the opposition scores and skates around is SO awesome!!!
Tortorella - 4.5 seasons

AV - .25+ seasons

Fair comparison?

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12-12-2013, 01:40 PM
  #162
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Prust, yes
Dubinsky, no

What can we do about it? Prust got an offer too good to match by us.

However, the main reason we are not winning games is because, apart from Nash, we don't have an x-factor type player

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12-12-2013, 01:43 PM
  #163
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This thread like so many others is hindsight bs. Do we miss what players like Dubinsky and Prust brought?
Sure. Were they adequately replaced? No way. Are we feeling it? Yes but it can be corrected. We can bring
In some scrappy players anytime. You can't find Nash anytime.

Why are people still crying about tortorella in this thread? Haven't those myths been debunked enough?

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12-12-2013, 01:46 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by shawn sugar thornton View Post
sorry guys but dubinsky was a warrior a heart soul type player . im sure you guys could use him right now. he is young too boot. excellent 2nd line player. nash doesnt look like a heart type player to me. to win you need heart .
He was? Interesting, I didn't know players could dissappear for weeks at a time, two years in a row and be considered impactful warriors. He's an excellent 2nd liner on occassion. The occasion of course was few and far between. Inconsistent 2nd liner at best. We got back a consistent first line talent. Great trade

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12-12-2013, 02:33 PM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
I think it is ridiculous to say one way or the other whether or not that team was an anomoly. Sather tore it apart before they had a chance to prove they were for real.

We wll never know. But i do know that team won 52 games and worked hard. Great season

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12-12-2013, 02:34 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
Well it makes sense because like some here were saying, if you put a guy who has no track record for leading a team where he is being asked to do too much you have what we have now.

Now again to be fair, the argument could be made that he had plenty of support around him when he joined the team. "Look at what happened to Gabby, to Richie. No one saw that coming."

OK.

My point is guys like Nash, Richie and Gabby rely more on glue players like Dubinksy and Prust more than most people are willing to recognize. A lot of the teams identity revolved around those two guys.

Now it's clear that that part of what made that years team so successful has to be rebuilt and the cycle of never ending Rangers rebuilds goes on and on.

What some teams and their fan bases learn is that the mix is everything. The shiny toys are nice but only if well supported.

Good post, i agree. I dont think Sather realizes that.

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12-12-2013, 03:09 PM
  #167
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Tortorella - 4.5 seasons

AV - .25+ seasons

Fair comparison?
The season is more than a quarter of way through. And when the on-ice product resembles the putrid pile of puke that paraded here in the dark years, then yes it is a fair comparison.

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12-12-2013, 03:10 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by shinchanyo View Post
We got back a consistent first line talent. Great trade
Just look at those outstanding results!!!

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12-12-2013, 04:07 PM
  #169
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The season is more than a quarter of way through. And when the on-ice product resembles the putrid pile of puke that paraded here in the dark years, then yes it is a fair comparison.
That's what I wrote more than a quarter of the way through...

But you found a way to make it fair...

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12-13-2013, 08:01 AM
  #170
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But you found a way to make it fair...
What you see is what you get, no?

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12-13-2013, 09:21 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by Amazing Kreiderman View Post
Prust, yes
Dubinsky, no

What can we do about it? Prust got an offer too good to match by us.

However, the main reason we are not winning games is because, apart from Nash, we don't have an x-factor type player
Not this again. What the rangers don't need is another first line player at the expense of all the depth they had/have.

The ability to roll 4 lines that all are good defensively and can score is the most valuable thing a team can have

Dubi/Anisimov/Prust/Fedetenko gave the rangers at least 3 lines that could play everywhere. They traded all that for one top line

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12-13-2013, 10:08 AM
  #172
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Not this again. What the rangers don't need is another first line player at the expense of all the depth they had/have.

The ability to roll 4 lines that all are good defensively and can score is the most valuable thing a team can have

Dubi/Anisimov/Prust/Fedetenko gave the rangers at least 3 lines that could play everywhere. They traded all that for one top line
I am not saying we should sacrifice the depth to acquire a top player but it would be nice to get one through the draft, for instance. You cannot deny we need some offensive talent.

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12-13-2013, 10:11 AM
  #173
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The Rangers are 15-17-1 under AV 33 games in. 31 points.

How was the team under Torts 33 games into his first season?

14-16-3. 31 points.

That team was a lazy and disjointed disgrace. And it was actually worse defensively than the one we have now, giving up 10 more goals in 33 games despite Lundqvist actually playing like Lundqvist. I don't know how that is even remotely possible considering we spotted teams 25 goals in the first 5 games, but there it is.

That '09-'10 non-playoff team had Dubinsky on it. Prust. Avery. Callahan back when he was Callahan. And it sucked. Whats the missing piece? Fedotenko?

People need to stop glamorizing Torts time here. The '11-'12 season was epic but it was the outlier.

You can make an argument for seeing Girardi's regression coming. Maybe even Callahan's, to an extent. And Staal's injuries are devestating. But Stepan? Hagelin? Lundqvist? These aren't players that should be struggling the way they are. This isn't just a bad "team" right now, this is a collection of horrific individual seasons.

This mess is on the GM and the players.

There will be plenty of time to crucify AV down the road. And then look back fondly on his time here after he is fired.

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12-13-2013, 10:49 AM
  #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn sugar thornton View Post
sorry guys but dubinsky was a warrior a heart soul type player . im sure you guys could use him right now. he is young too boot. excellent 2nd line player. nash doesnt look like a heart type player to me. to win you need heart .
do you play hockey? i may not be a professional but i coach and have played at a high level, ive also refereed, and i still play and while im not trying to pick a fight, heart is complementary to a complete team. this isnt a magical disney movie or happy children's book. if you look at teams like boston, chicago, los angeles, pittburgh, they're all complete teams for the most part. the holes they have can be plugged in. the rangers bottom 6 is atrocious, and it has always been. dubinsky and prust were two well liked players. but losing the two of them didnt crush the rangers. they are two of the most replacable players. i feel like dubinksy may end up back with the rangers down the road, but even if he doesnt come back, there are good teams with players exactly like dubinky on their 4th line.

dubinsky was a warrior, but hes a bottom 6 forward and prust is a great grinder, but not worth the money. the problem with the rangers right now besides the coaching and the adjustments is the issue where they cannot stay healthy

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12-13-2013, 11:03 AM
  #175
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That team was a lazy and disjointed disgrace.
Come on, McD. At no time during Tortarella's tenure could his teams be classified as such.

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