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Subban's next contract

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Old
12-13-2013, 12:07 PM
  #326
Andy
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Well again, if money wasn't important (it was) then we should've just signed him to the term he wanted at sub two million dollars and we're doubly stupid for not doing this.

Because it was only about term right? And since it apparently was only about term then PK would've signed this right? Hell, why even bother with what we gave him? Just give him the league minimum for 8 years because apparently PK just didn't give a damn about the money...
I can't believe he is arguing that PK only cared about length and not the money.

Even more ridiculous is that he doesn't see that if that is the case, it only makes Bergevin dumber for not signing him 5-6 years at a 2.8 cap hit.

The lengths someone will go to to defend the GM. Though I think this is more of Habsterix saving face for all the articles he's written about how awesome Bergevin is.

oh and...

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Old
12-13-2013, 12:11 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
What you're ignoring is in all of this, TERM is the issue. Fairly compensated with TERM.
So again - Why do you feel that sub 3 million was fair for this guy? Why do you keep running away from answering this question?

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12-13-2013, 12:19 PM
  #328
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Yes, that's exactly the problem I have with the bridge deal, term AND dollars, Subban at 5-6 years at 5.5 million a year would have been fantastic. Instead, we low balled our best defensemen and arguably our best player, created some tension for no reason only to sign him for potentially an extra two years from what he originally wanted, but at 3+ million more per year on the cap.

It was about as short sighted as you can get on Bergevin's part. Just another disappointing managerial move along with Desharnais' contract and the Briere signing.

Also, just to come back to it, it was clear term and dollars were an issue. If term was the only issue than Bergevin is even dumber for not signing PK for 5 years at a 2.8 million cap hit. But we all know that it wasn't just term, but that PK wanted dollars as well which is what led to the hold out. Why you are just emphasizing term is beyond me, it just makes Bergevin look that much dumber if term was the only issue, but it wasn't. Also, I've never heard anyone describe their worth only in years. It's clear as day that Subban is talking dollars as well. The only way not to see it is to choose not to see it and given how much Bergevin Kool-aid you've been drinking and offering others, I'm not surprised to see that you've deliberately closed your eyes for the sake of ego.

Keep on apologizing though .
First off, let's make something clear. I did not and will no apologize because I have nothing to apologize about.

Secondly, Subban was not lowballed, at least not according to him. This is a conspiracy theory created by fans who FEEL like he should have gotten more money.

Last and not least, I've proven in this very thread that the bridge contract was the responsible thing to do for Bergevin, both in the short term and long term, and that Subban would regain his losses over time.

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Well again, if money wasn't important (it was) then we should've just signed him to the term he wanted at sub two million dollars and we're doubly stupid for not doing this.

Because it was only about term right? And since it apparently was only about term then PK would've signed this right? Hell, why even bother with what we gave him? Just give him the league minimum for 8 years because apparently PK just didn't give a damn about the money...
Where did I say that money was not important? I'm simply attacking your conspiracy theory that he was lowballed when the player himself didn't seem to think so (from the quotes brought in front of your eyes today even). He wanted a long term contract with higher dollars. That's normal. He was satisfied with the deal as he said himself. Again, you seem to know more about it than the player himself... conspiracy theory at its best.

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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
I can't believe he is arguing that PK only cared about length and not the money.

Even more ridiculous is that he doesn't see that if that is the case, it only makes Bergevin dumber for not signing him 5-6 years at a 2.8 cap hit.

The lengths someone will go to to defend the GM. Though I think this is more of Habsterix saving face for all the articles he's written about how awesome Bergevin is.

oh and...
Again, I never stated that he only cared about term and not money. I did say however that the philosophical difference was the term and not the dollars, which I've provided in the quotes. Let's make something clear: dollars are important, but the term is why he held out, as stated by himself!

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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
So again - Why do you feel that sub 3 million was fair for this guy? Why do you keep running away from answering this question?
What I think is irrelevant, and so is what YOU think. What's important is what the organization and the player think and both seem pretty happy, as reported.

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12-13-2013, 12:45 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Where did I say that money was not important?
You have repeatedly deflected the money question back to term. Whenever the issue of lowballing is raised you avoid the question return to your old refrain "the quotes from Subban's camp" with them "stating that money was not the issue, but rather philosophical differences in the term of the deal."

So you ignore the issues of money (don't know why you're afraid to talk about this) when the issue of lowballing comes up and you continue to focus on a select few quotes from Subban's agents while ignoring everything else that was said.
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I'm simply attacking your conspiracy theory that he was lowballed when the player himself didn't seem to think so (from the quotes brought in front of your eyes today even). He wanted a long term contract with higher dollars. That's normal. He was satisfied with the deal as he said himself. Again, you seem to know more about it than the player himself... conspiracy theory at its best.
1. I've asked you several times... what consipiracy? WTF are you talking about? It was a contract negotiation where our guys lowballed Subban. There's no conspiracy here, just bad management.

2. It was a lowball offer that was far less than what he was worth. You say it isn't. But you are afraid to defend that position. Tell us... why do you think he was only worth that money?

3. You keep saying he was happy with it. The evidence doesn't support your position. If he was happy there would've been no holdout. The final result was PK being paid far less than he was worth. Just because he eventually signed doesn't mean he was happy about it. And seriously why would PK be happy about this? He sat out and then got paid less than he was worth? Again though, you avoid this question and reply with emoticons and one liners.
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What I think is irrelevant, and so is what YOU think. What's important is what the organization and the player think and both seem pretty happy, as reported.
Why do you keep running away from my question? Its a straightforward question so what are you afraid of here?

It goes to the heart of the arguments you've been making all along... that this was the right thing to do. If so and this was the right amount, why is it that you are afraid to tell us why you think he was only worth that amount?

By running away from this you're only hurting your own credibility here. One thing to justify a bridge contract if Subban wanted 8 mil a year and he wanted four mil... that I could totally understand. But we're sitting there at less than three? That's lowballing. And if you want to defend MB then tell us why you think a guy who had played the way he did only warranted this cash? How is it that a guy like David ****ing Desharnais warrants more per year than Subban does?

You can keep avoiding the questions - that's cool. I can do this all day long man. All that's going to happen is folks seeing that you aren't capable of supporting your own arguments.

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Old
12-13-2013, 12:58 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
So again - Why do you feel that sub 3 million was fair for this guy? Why do you keep running away from answering this question?
Are you suggesting that all contracts, especially ELC's and 2nd contracts, are fair?

This is the only time GM's can somewhat control salaries of their players...its not about being 'fair', it's taking advantage of what the salary cap system has built-in to help teams control player salaries, some GM's prevail themselves of this, other's dont.


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Old
12-13-2013, 01:29 PM
  #331
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Are you suggesting that all contracts, especially ELC's and 2nd contracts, are fair?
How did you get that from my post? Where did I imply this anywhere?
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Originally Posted by 417 View Post
This is the only time GM's can somewhat control salaries of their players...its not about being 'fair', it's taking advantage of what the salary cap system has built-in to help teams control player salaries, some GM's prevail themselves of this, other's dont.
To a certain extent that's true. The RFA system exists because salaries for unproven players (ie. Alex Daigle) were out of hand and because small market teams wouldn't be able to hang onto younger talent.

That being said, teams are smart enough to recognize that when you have a strong young talent, you offer him up a fair contract that's at least somewhat commensurate with what he's shown. Most teams actually locked up their young talent at longer contracts with fair numbers behind them (something PK was asking for.)

There's just no way to justify making a player of PK's talents sit out for that amount of money. Sub three million isn't in line with what players of similar skill sets were being given. Like I said, I understand the philosophy of a bridge (and initially supported the idea with Subban until his demands became public) and it makes sense with a guy who wants a massive long term contract.

Again, we put this contract on the table for him and said basically take it or leave it. Our player sat out because of this. And things got to a point where a trade was actually a possible outcome of the whole mess.

Why?

Why was it worth it to us to do this? Why risk losing a player like this over a contract that was clearly beneath what he was worth? Even if it had been say... 4 million for two years even that wouldn't have been 'fair' in terms of what he'd already shown but at least in that case it wouldl've been somewhat respectable. Our offer wasn't close to fair.

He was our number one blueliner and had great numbers on a terrible team. He was 23 years old with lots of upside. A number one blueliner in this league is worth minimum five million a year. You could point to say Tyler Myers as a bust... okay. But that still doesn't justify a sub 3 mil deal. Like I said, if you're going to bridge him at least give him 4 mil. And actually... why bridge him at all? Give him what he wanted. 5 mil (he was already worth at least this much) with the upside of being better. Yes there's some risk (there always is with any contract) but there's good upside there too.

And if MB really didn't trust PK to become that good a player and didn't want to risk a five year deal (don't understand why he'd be skeptical but okay...) then sign him for two years at 4.5 each and be done with it.

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Old
12-13-2013, 01:32 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Do you think that he was only worth what he got?

Look at his performance vs what we paid. Do you honestly think he was worth a sub 3 million dollar contract? One thing to negotiate "aggressively" its a whole other thing to pay a guy who had shown himself to be more than capable of being a number one blueliner at the age of 23.

Contracts negotiations aren't done in vaccuum either. Offers are made relative to what other players of similar calibre are making. Negotiating aggressively would've been giving him slightly less than 4 million. That at least I could understand. But to not even give 3?

This is a message board. If you aren't interested in this then why post and why read? That's the purpose of a message board dude! And moreover WHY GET UPSET ABOUT IT when somebody posts something critical about the team?


Again, contracts are given out relative to other players. That's how teams arrive at contracts. How many players of Subban's abilities have been in that situation? What did you think Subban was worth after the 2012 season? Four million a year? Five million? I can see some room for debate here but I'd think most would be more than happy to have seen a contract at five million a year dude. Less than three million? That's not how business is done. I don't see how you can call this anything other than lowballing. Esp when our GM turns around and gives DD more money.

As for Weber... his situation actually weakens your argument. Not only were we lucky that Subban didn't leave, we were also lucky that some other team didn't come in and make a competing offer.

5 years at 5 million would've been pretty ideal dude. PK would've been happy and we would've saved 3 mil plus in cap space over the next three seasons.

Your argument here seems to be... well we screwed up, but so what? I'm not really seeing anything compelling from your side here dude. Tell me why its good that we're paying more than we have to for the next three seasons. Because if your argument is "well its only 3 million" then I don't see the reasoning here.


EVERYONE knows that Subban sat out before taking this contract. And when you look at what he got paid for a Norris trophy season its shockingly low.

What more information do you require to see that the guy is going to want to get all he can right now? Seriously man, why should the guy take a discount when according to you the whole reason why he'd lowball himself for two years would be to get a huge payout later? How does this make sense?




5 for 5 years.... again, what's wrong with that? You don't think this was reasonable? You don't think that he was worth this?
Your drumming on the Outrage Drum is LOUD and CLEAR.

I've completely changed my opinion, dude.

Thanks !

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Old
12-13-2013, 01:35 PM
  #333
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Your drumming on the Outrage Drum is LOUD and CLEAR.

I've completely changed my opinion, dude.

Thanks !
Strong rebuttal man. Good work.

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12-13-2013, 01:40 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
How did you get that from my post? Where did I imply this anywhere?

To a certain extent that's true. The RFA system exists because salaries for unproven players (ie. Alex Daigle) were out of hand and because small market teams wouldn't be able to hang onto younger talent.

That being said, teams are smart enough to recognize that when you have a strong young talent, you offer him up a fair contract that's at least somewhat commensurate with what he's shown. Most teams actually locked up their young talent at longer contracts with fair numbers behind them (something PK was asking for.)

There's just no way to justify making a player of PK's talents sit out for that amount of money. Sub three million isn't in line with what players of similar skill sets were being given. Like I said, I understand the philosophy of a bridge (and initially supported the idea with Subban until his demands became public) and it makes sense with a guy who wants a massive long term contract.

Again, we put this contract on the table for him and said basically take it or leave it. Our player sat out because of this. And things got to a point where a trade was actually a possible outcome of the whole mess.

Why?

Why was it worth it to us to do this? Why risk losing a player like this over a contract that was clearly beneath what he was worth? Even if it had been say... 4 million for two years even that wouldn't have been 'fair' in terms of what he'd already shown but at least in that case it wouldl've been somewhat respectable. Our offer wasn't close to fair.

He was our number one blueliner and had great numbers on a terrible team. He was 23 years old with lots of upside. A number one blueliner in this league is worth minimum five million a year. You could point to say Tyler Myers as a bust... okay. But that still doesn't justify a sub 3 mil deal. Like I said, if you're going to bridge him at least give him 4 mil. And actually... why bridge him at all? Give him what he wanted. 5 mil (he was already worth at least this much) with the upside of being better. Yes there's some risk (there always is with any contract) but there's good upside there too.

And if MB really didn't trust PK to become that good a player and didn't want to risk a five year deal (don't understand why he'd be skeptical but okay...) then sign him for two years at 4.5 each and be done with it.
I was asking, hence the question mark...didn't want to assume

As for the rest of your post...I think it's much a do about nothing really.

Subban is going to be a part of this organization for a long time, i'm not really worried about that. After being initially opposed to how they handled the situation, I came to understand and and even agree to it.

But now comes the tricky part...are the Habs going to fork over the cash? Will Subban even want a long term deal?

Both sides took a risk, we'll see how it all plays out in the end...but IMO, what's important is that I personally think he's going be a cornerstone of this franchise for a long time and I don't think contract negotiations will affect that, I'd like to think that both sides know that it's just the business part of things and sometimes, it gets ugly

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12-13-2013, 01:44 PM
  #335
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I was asking, hence the question mark...didn't want to assume

As for the rest of your post...I think it's much a do about nothing really.

Subban is going to be a part of this organization for a long time, i'm not really worried about that. After being initially opposed to how they handled the situation, I came to understand and and even agree to it.

But now comes the tricky part...are the Habs going to fork over the cash? Will Subban even want a long term deal?

Both sides took a risk, we'll see how it all plays out in the end...but IMO, what's important is that I personally think he's going be a cornerstone of this franchise for a long time and I don't think contract negotiations will affect that, I'd like to think that both sides know that it's just the business part of things and sometimes, it gets ugly
At the end of the day, if Subban stays with us... we should be happy about it. I totally agree.

The question about how we went about this is a different one though. And us paying more than we needed to over the next three seasons is another factor to consider.

Grand scheme of things, you're absolutely right. Having Subban even at 8.5 mil a year is great for us simply because that kind of talent is impossible to find.

And the real question is... are we going to do this with Galchenyuk? Are we going to lowball him the way we did Subban? Because in my mind that's a very stupid risk to take. Bridge contract? Okay, I guess. Not what I'd do but whatever... If you are going to bridge him though, be reasonable about it and don't force a standoff because we were completely stupid to do this the last time around.

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12-13-2013, 02:01 PM
  #336
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But now comes the tricky part...are the Habs going to fork over the cash? Will Subban even want a long term deal?
Long term is off the table, Subban wont take it.

Its going to be 8+ short term and then 10+ multi year UFA deal.


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12-13-2013, 02:02 PM
  #337
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You have repeatedly deflected the money question back to term. Whenever the issue of lowballing is raised you avoid the question return to your old refrain "the quotes from Subban's camp" with them "stating that money was not the issue, but rather philosophical differences in the term of the deal."

So you ignore the issues of money (don't know why you're afraid to talk about this) when the issue of lowballing comes up and you continue to focus on a select few quotes from Subban's agents while ignoring everything else that was said.

1. I've asked you several times... what consipiracy? WTF are you talking about? It was a contract negotiation where our guys lowballed Subban. There's no conspiracy here, just bad management.

2. It was a lowball offer that was far less than what he was worth. You say it isn't. But you are afraid to defend that position. Tell us... why do you think he was only worth that money?

3. You keep saying he was happy with it. The evidence doesn't support your position. If he was happy there would've been no holdout. The final result was PK being paid far less than he was worth. Just because he eventually signed doesn't mean he was happy about it. And seriously why would PK be happy about this? He sat out and then got paid less than he was worth? Again though, you avoid this question and reply with emoticons and one liners.

Why do you keep running away from my question? Its a straightforward question so what are you afraid of here?

It goes to the heart of the arguments you've been making all along... that this was the right thing to do. If so and this was the right amount, why is it that you are afraid to tell us why you think he was only worth that amount?

By running away from this you're only hurting your own credibility here. One thing to justify a bridge contract if Subban wanted 8 mil a year and he wanted four mil... that I could totally understand. But we're sitting there at less than three? That's lowballing. And if you want to defend MB then tell us why you think a guy who had played the way he did only warranted this cash? How is it that a guy like David ****ing Desharnais warrants more per year than Subban does?

You can keep avoiding the questions - that's cool. I can do this all day long man. All that's going to happen is folks seeing that you aren't capable of supporting your own arguments.
You're incredible, you know that? I'll sum it up for you once more for the sake of your circular discussions going nowhere. Oh I know, you'll take each word and dissect them one by one but unfortunately, this is not how the English language works. A paragraph, a text, is meant to be a whole, a concept, related and linked to one another but you'll do what you always do anyway.
  • I've (repeatedly) shown that the bridge deal was what's best for the organization
  • I've provided you proofs (quotes) saying that while he wanted to get paid what he was worth, the reason for his holdout was terms (philosophical differences).
  • I've showed clearly that Subban doesn't lose in the deal.
  • I've provided you quotes where he's stated himself that he was happy with the deal.
  • I've informed you that what you and I feel that he's worth means nothing as long as both management and Subban are happy
  • He said that he was so that's what I have to go with
  • Anything else is make-belief, conspiracy theory to satisfy a need to ***** and complain for absolutely no reasons.

Hope it's clear now.

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12-13-2013, 02:07 PM
  #338
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You're incredible, you know that?
Hey, thanks man. That's really nice of you to say.
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I'll sum it up for you once more for the sake of your circular discussions going nowhere. Oh I know, you'll take each word and dissect them one by one but unfortunately, this is not how the English language works. A paragraph, a text, is meant to be a whole, a concept, related and linked to one another but you'll do what you always do anyway.
  • I've (repeatedly) shown that the bridge deal was what's best for the organization
  • I've provided you proofs (quotes) saying that while he wanted to get paid what he was worth, the reason for his holdout was terms (philosophical differences).
  • I've showed clearly that Subban doesn't lose in the deal.
  • I've provided you quotes where he's stated himself that he was happy with the deal.
  • I've informed you that what you and I feel that he's worth means nothing as long as both management and Subban are happy
  • He said that he was so that's what I have to go with
  • Anything else is make-belief, conspiracy theory to satisfy a need to ***** and complain for absolutely no reasons.

Hope it's clear now.
You left out the answer to my question. Is that coming any time soon?

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12-13-2013, 02:16 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
At the end of the day, if Subban stays with us... we should be happy about it. I totally agree.

The question about how we went about this is a different one though. And us paying more than we needed to over the next three seasons is another factor to consider.

Grand scheme of things, you're absolutely right. Having Subban even at 8.5 mil a year is great for us simply because that kind of talent is impossible to find.

And the real question is... are we going to do this with Galchenyuk? Are we going to lowball him the way we did Subban? Because in my mind that's a very stupid risk to take. Bridge contract? Okay, I guess. Not what I'd do but whatever... If you are going to bridge him though, be reasonable about it and don't force a standoff because we were completely stupid to do this the last time around.
You really have to stop with this low ball crap. How are the long term deals working out for the Oilers? I would much rather pay more for a known quantity then something that you need to predict. Subban was payed what he deserved at the time, now he deserves more, and the Habs can afford it, as the cap keps increasing, and will keep increasing. The only risk is a significant drop in the Canadian dollar, which could affect NHL revenue. Other than that, the Habs will have room

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12-13-2013, 02:18 PM
  #340
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Long term is off the table, Subban wont take it.

Its going to be 8+ short term and then 10+ multi year UFA deal.

Says his agent ?

Speculation ain't fact.

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12-13-2013, 02:21 PM
  #341
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You really have to stop with this low ball crap. How are the long term deals working out for the Oilers? I would much rather pay more for a known quantity then something that you need to predict. Subban was payed what he deserved at the time, now he deserves more, and the Habs can afford it, as the cap keps increasing, and will keep increasing. The only risk is a significant drop in the Canadian dollar, which could affect NHL revenue. Other than that, the Habs will have room
I think the Oilers were crazy giving out the contracts that they did. Then again RNH wasn't as proven as Subban was and Subban was asking for much less on both terms and dollars. You are comparing apples and oranges here.

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12-13-2013, 02:25 PM
  #342
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I think the Oilers were crazy giving out the contracts that they did. Then again RNH wasn't as proven as Subban was and Subban was asking for much less on both terms and dollars. You are comparing apples and oranges here.
Of course, when it goes against the conspiracy, it's apples and oranges. Just like the bridge contracts to Price, Pacioretty, Plekanec and company, right?

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12-13-2013, 02:29 PM
  #343
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Of course, when it goes against the conspiracy, it's apples and oranges. Just like the bridge contracts to Price, Pacioretty, Plekanec and company, right?
I don't understand what you're writing here. What conspiracy? How does RNH situation equal PK's? The contract that he got is completely different than what PK was asking and he wasn't as proven a player. Taylor Hall on the other hand I think is a great deal.

BTW, you uh want to answer that question now?


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12-13-2013, 03:32 PM
  #344
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This conversation you guys are having reminds me of when my dog tries to catch his tail by running around in circles.

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12-13-2013, 03:55 PM
  #345
Habsterix*
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Originally Posted by Adriatic View Post
This conversation you guys are having reminds me of when my dog tries to catch his tail by running around in circles.
I can't agree more.

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12-13-2013, 03:57 PM
  #346
Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Adriatic View Post
This conversation you guys are having reminds me of when my dog tries to catch his tail by running around in circles.
That's okay. I just want to see how far he'll go to avoid giving a straight answer. And I'm a fast typist so...

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Old
12-13-2013, 04:05 PM
  #347
JGRB
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Subban hasn't been up to his standards the past 5-6 games.

Are contract negotiations becoming an on-ice distraction for him? Is it just a coincidental slump? Maybe Gainey wasn't crazy after all.

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Old
12-13-2013, 05:14 PM
  #348
Ice Poutine
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You all know of course that the title of this post will come to be true and that each post is closer to the moment we hear that he has signed. The OP really wasnt going overboard when he wrote that title...

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Old
12-13-2013, 05:17 PM
  #349
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Originally Posted by Andy View Post
I call bull on the bolded. Pk was already the team's number one defender by the end of his second nhl season and he started the season last year on fire.

Not seeing that PK was an exceptional player BEFORE last year is just an indication of being bad at evaluating talent. It's sad to see people on a message board being able to identify PK's talent years before the team's GM does. Everyone expected Subban to keep progressing, there was 0 reason not to expect it. He improved his game leaps and bounds every year since being drafted. Hard to believe that in his second year, being the team's number one defender, shutting down opponents like Crosby that his progress would come to a halt. The fact that he began the season last year on fire just shows what everyone already knew, that he was an exceptional player.
OMG - FFS there was no one else. Markov was injured for two years - Emelin was not there - who was his competition? Spacek? Hamrlik?

Subban always had the talent, but his game was not Elite. He's still learning.

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12-13-2013, 07:08 PM
  #350
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Of course, when it goes against the conspiracy, it's apples and oranges. Just like the bridge contracts to Price, Pacioretty, Plekanec and company, right?
Are all contracts the same? No they're not. Are all players the same? No they're not.
So why exactly are you not understanding here??..Price, MaxPac and Plekanec were not where PK was after their ELC.
You want to argue it was better for PK because it takes away some pressure and keeps his drive up? Fine, some can agree, others can disagree, but that's a fair point.

As for the conspiracy theory, seriously dude, drop it. There is none.
There was a contractual dispute where both side held out in order to get what they wanted. How do we know there was a dispute? Because it boiled over onto the season and PK himself made an interview saying all he wants is his fair value that he bases on him playing like the #1 Dman, that he hopes a trade isn't what it will come down to, and that he needs to discuss his future with his family.
A little bit after this, he finally budged and decided to sign the small bridge deal.
No one in their right mind thought PK was going to sign a deal south of 3M per year, as he said himself, fair value for a #1 Dman isn't 2.8M. So it's pretty easy to assume PK wanted more than that and simply gave into the deal because he had no negotiation power on top of alienating himself every day he spent away from his team.
So give it a rest. Don't play dumb. You're fully aware that PK signed a deal well below his value. Argue that he was a RFA with no arbitration right therefore, no negotiating power, so he had to agree to whatever deal they gave him. But don't pretend like he got what he deserved, that he was holding out for that little cash. If that's what he was holding out for, then what was the Canadiens offering him? Bouillon's contract???

Stop playing dumb.

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