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NYC is Why the Rangers Suck

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Old
12-13-2013, 04:23 PM
  #76
Synergy27
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Originally Posted by TankLarkin View Post
Chimera told either Sam or Joe that the Caps never have a problem getting pumped to play at MSG. I think it's a small thing but magnified with this Rangers team.
It just simply has to be easier to get up for a game in NYC than it is for a place like Sunrise or Raleigh. No disrespect to those places, but there is no denying the aura of the big city, love it or hate it. I really believe this is a factor, albeit a small one.

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Old
12-13-2013, 04:24 PM
  #77
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Why cant we do a full rebuild? Nobody even cares about the Rangers these days

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12-13-2013, 04:26 PM
  #78
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I used to blame Chris Drury. I now blame New York City.

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Old
12-13-2013, 07:47 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Synergy27 View Post
First of all, this is not an excuse thread. I admit to being anti-Tortorella, and to believing that there was untapped offensive potential in last year's roster, and I'm now willing to admit that I was wrong. That said, I've done a lot of thinking over the years about possible reasons why the Rangers always seem to suck besides the obvious things like poor management and roster construction and I'm curious to see if you guys think there is any merit to a thought I have that it all traces back to one thing:

New York City

Now, it's pretty easy to blow up this argument by simply pointing uptown to the Yankees, but I think NYC itself is a major contributor to the Rangers perennial mediocrity for the following reasons:

1. Distractions - particularly for young players. There is just way too much to get into and too many opportunities for people from all walks of life to do things other than focus on their job here, especially when they're rich. These guys are also largely anonymous in NYC so they can get away with things they couldn't in a smaller, more hockey focused city. Isn't this why the dominant early 90s team needed to be Oiler-fied to finally get over the hump in '94? Do we really want to blow it up and bring in a bunch of high-potential kids with no guidance in place?

2. Motivated opponents. Rookie scores his first NHL goal. Backup goalie channels Patrick Roy. Is it possible that opposing players just "get up" more to play in NYC (and against a "storied" original 6 franchise) than they do in say Tampa, or Nashville? MSG claims to be the world's most famous arena, so do players try harder or do more to put on a show here than they might in other cities? Can this "phenomenon" also explain why the Maple Leafs haven't won in 45+ years?

3. Sponsor/Entertainment Competition Pressure. Maybe they really can't afford to go through a true rebuild because of business deals that are in place, or for fear that people will simply go find something else to do. I am firmly aware of the "dark days" pre-first lockout and the fact that attendance wasn't impacted all that much, but those teams were making splashes in free agency and at least trying to be good every season. What would happen if they made a real, honest commitment to rebuilding, jettisoned all the big name veterans, and finished in the lottery several times over a 5 year stretch. Would NYC still care about the team?

4. The MSG ice. We all know about this one, and it was very evident tonight. The ice at MSG sucks and certainly doesn't help guys who lack elite level skill to consistently complete the necessary plays to sustain offense.

Anyway, these are just some thoughts I wanted to share with you guys. Maybe I'm just looking for excuses and don't want to face the reality that we've just wasted a decade+ with a **** GM, but I do feel as though points one and two at least have some merit from a human psychology perspective.

don't blame NYC , blame james dolan

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Old
12-13-2013, 07:48 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by BrianBoyle View Post
Giants have been successful, too. All it takes is competent management, and that's what the Yankees/Giants have/had for years.
Yep. That is why Garden teams (Rangers and Knicks) suck and in my view, I don't either will ever be a champion so long as Dolan is running the organization this way.

I like to think the Bruins winning again might give us some chance, since their owner was cheap, but the Bruins always drafted well, they just never spent until of late.

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12-13-2013, 08:23 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by RangersHank View Post
Why cant we do a full rebuild? Nobody even cares about the Rangers these days
People ask this question every few years. In 2004 people were screaming for a rebuild. Maybe that's coming back in style again.

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12-13-2013, 09:40 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangersHank View Post
Why cant we do a full rebuild? Nobody even cares about the Rangers these days
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Originally Posted by Pizza View Post
People ask this question every few years. In 2004 people were screaming for a rebuild. Maybe that's coming back in style again.
It's a legit question. Sather has a job for life because he's BFF with the owner and the owner doesn't care what he does.

Ever since Sather came here it seemed like he tried to prove something. Whether it was spend a ton of money because 'i can win if I had all that money to spend too'. Now he's trying to avoid tanking. As if something is morally wrong with it. I don't know what his deal is.

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Old
12-13-2013, 09:53 PM
  #83
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If the Rangers stunk up the joint for 5 straight years, would anyone care? Sure the die hards would, but for most people, the Rangers aren't on their radars unless they're doing really well. The Rangers as an average or bad team are typically ignored. So why can't they go through a full blown rebuild? Maybe attendance and ratings would suffer a bit for a few years, but by how much?

I think the thing that NYC has to do with it is the myth that New York won't handle a rebuild. This has been the myth portrayed by the media for years. I think any New Yorker would take 3 or 4 years of bad teams for 10 years of dominance every single time.

Also, the one thing that you can say about the Yankees is that they've won 5 championships since 1978, but they've always routinely had astronomical payrolls in a sport that allows for such a thing. They never really had to do a traditional rebuild even though one can say that in those late 90s championships they had a decent (or maybe a few is a better word) amount of home grown stars.

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Old
12-13-2013, 10:12 PM
  #84
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Yes, playing in NYC is part of the problem. Clearly, management also has contributed to the franchise's struggles.

A complete rebuild? I assume those advocating for such an outcome are kidding

The Dolans aren't truly concerned with winning championships (although that would be a bonus). They are concerned about fielding a competitive team. If we saw a cellar dweller for too long would the corp tix/boxes sell? How long will the $350 seats sell without a product for an extended go. How many viewers will turn to MSG network?
Thus, I see a future of free agent signings supplemented by a draft (hoping to get lucky). Would Lundy have been signed for 8.5 Mil per if the team was on a rebuild?

The rangers are one of the most valuable franchises in hockey. The Rangers are an important draw for the entire NHL? Is winning championships really the driving motivation for the organization? Just field a decent product and everyone in the financial dept will remain happy.

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Old
12-13-2013, 10:42 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by ltrangerfan View Post
If we saw a cellar dweller for too long would the corp tix/boxes sell? How long will the $350 seats sell without a product for an extended go. How many viewers will turn to MSG network?
and here's the thing. If the Rangers are a cellar dweller for 4 years and then that leads to 10+ years of being a championship caliber team... which is the optimal result in terms of revenue generation, being mediocre/good for 14 years or being bad for 4 and great for 10?

Imagine this. Rangers discover Hank is the real deal. The Rangers have no desire to bring back Jagr so they dump everybody who wasn't part of the future plans and started a full blown rebuild knowing that they have no premier offensive players. They become terrible for 3 years and get the #1 pick in one of those three years and top 5 picks the other 2.

2009 draft: John Tavares, Victor Hedman, Matt Duchene, Evander Kane, Brayden Schenn
2010 draft: Taylor Hall, Tyler Seguin, Erik Gudbranson, Ryan Johansen, Nino Niederreiter
2011 draft: Ryan Nugent-Hopkins, Gabriel Landeskog, Jonathan Huberdeau, Adam Larsson, Ryan Strome

Those were the top 5 picks in those three drafts. Imagine having one of those #1s plus two of the others. I know some haven't quite panned out, but there are some really good ones in there. Imagine how this team would be today.

However, now we're at a point where Lundqvist is 31 years old with a 7 year contract. They cannot afford to rebuild until 7 or 8 years from now depending how Lundqvist holds up.


Last edited by WhipNash27: 12-13-2013 at 10:50 PM.
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Old
12-13-2013, 11:13 PM
  #86
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No, it's Boyle's fault.

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Old
12-13-2013, 11:15 PM
  #87
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It starts at the top

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Old
12-14-2013, 02:28 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by ltrangerfan View Post
Yes, playing in NYC is part of the problem. Clearly, management also has contributed to the franchise's struggles.

A complete rebuild? I assume those advocating for such an outcome are kidding

The Dolans aren't truly concerned with winning championships (although that would be a bonus). They are concerned about fielding a competitive team. If we saw a cellar dweller for too long would the corp tix/boxes sell? How long will the $350 seats sell without a product for an extended go. How many viewers will turn to MSG network?
Thus, I see a future of free agent signings supplemented by a draft (hoping to get lucky). Would Lundy have been signed for 8.5 Mil per if the team was on a rebuild?

The rangers are one of the most valuable franchises in hockey. The Rangers are an important draw for the entire NHL? Is winning championships really the driving motivation for the organization? Just field a decent product and everyone in the financial dept will remain happy.
You've hit the nail on the head. Revenue both at the Garden and from MSG network does go down when the team sucks for years on end--as happened during the early 2000s. The leadership team is smart enough to keep the organization from falling as far as it did then, but can't seem to make enough of the right moves to go beyond that, but as long as the product on the ice stays competitive and makes the playoffs, revenue keeps rolling in. Of course, having a championship team would be more fun--and more profitable--but Dolan has faith in Sather, after all, he's a Hockey God. And maybe, Sather finds the right pieces after all these years and actually holds on to them long enough. Hey, as they say, ya never know.

After 40+ years as a fan, I'm not holding my breath through.

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