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Old
12-13-2013, 12:08 PM
  #976
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General public Frozen Four tickets went on sale today. I wanted to go, but I didn't anticipate $205 per person for a pass to the three games. A bit too steep for me.

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12-13-2013, 12:11 PM
  #977
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Originally Posted by StoneHands View Post
Laughton was well under a PPG his draft year and only had 23 points the year before as opposed to guys like Couturier and Schenn who were well above a PPG even as 16 year olds, those are guys that don't need time to develop their offensive skills, though it could be argued that Couts could have benefited from it. Laughton isnt a guy who's been dominating offensively at every level he's been at and he just needs to bring that to the NHL, his offensive game has just really taken off the last 2 seasons. Obviously the skill was always there but it's still developing in my opinion.

We can just agree to disagree I guess because we'll never know what's best for him unless he steps in day 1 and is solid defensively while putting up decent numbers. I just think he needs some fine tuning of his offensive skills and that he can further progress them playing top line minutes and PP in the AHL for a season(or even half as I suggested before) rather than with plugs on the 4th line in Philly.
I agree with you that the AHL is better than the 4th line. I just think he would actually work on the 3rd line next year behind Giroux and Couturier. That line is getting controlled minutes now with B. Schenn at center so having Laughton there wouldn't really matter IMO.

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12-13-2013, 12:35 PM
  #978
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I am generally very skeptical of post draft year offense translating to the NHL. Leier is nearly producing at Laughton's pace, is only 3 months older, and no one is claiming he will be an offensive player at the nhl level. If Laughton turns into a reliable 3rd liner, that is good enough. Anything more is gravy.

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12-13-2013, 12:49 PM
  #979
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I am generally very skeptical of post draft year offense translating to the NHL. Leier is nearly producing at Laughton's pace, is only 3 months older, and no one is claiming he will be an offensive player at the nhl level. If Laughton turns into a reliable 3rd liner, that is good enough. Anything more is gravy.
Yup, thing is people around here say this (not you necessarily) but don't understand what a third liner really is. I've heard people say B Schenn is gonna be a 3rd/2nd line winger. Meanwhile he's on pace for 45+ pts, was last year as well and is 22. Being a 50ish pt winger makes you a 1st line winger in this league so even if he doesn't improve he's already a solid 2nd line contributor, who's on the boarder of being a 1st line winger (without getting 1st line minutes). Being a 30 pt center is a 3rd line center but people around here will not be happy with Laughton if he's an annual 30 pt player. Greedy ****ers!


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12-13-2013, 12:58 PM
  #980
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Yup, thing is people around here say this (not you necessarily) but don't understand what a third liner really is. I've heard people say B Schenn is gonna be a 3rd/2nd line winger. Meanwhile he's on pace for 45+ pts, was last year as well and is 22. Being a 50ish pt winger makes you a 1st line winger in this league so even if he doesn't improve he's already a solid 2nd line contributor, who's on the boarder of being a 1st line winger. Being a 30 pt center is a 3rd line center but people around here will not be happy with Laughton if he's an annual 30 pt player.
B. Schenn was supposdely "the best player not in the nhl" as a prospect. That equates to a first line potential. he does not look like he is achieving his expectations. If Laughton is a two way 15-20 goal scorer, that isn't bad.

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12-13-2013, 01:20 PM
  #981
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Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
B. Schenn was supposdely "the best player not in the nhl" as a prospect. That equates to a first line potential. he does not look like he is achieving his expectations. If Laughton is a two way 15-20 goal scorer, that isn't bad.
This is exactly what I'm talking about though. If he's expected to have first line potential then he's right on his way. He's on pace for 45+ point in his third yr while playing the 8th most minutes among forwards (under 16 minutes), that's almost dead last out of our top nine. Btw this is counting an injury shortened year and a lock out shortened yr (in which he also was on pace for 45 pts) as his first two. I don't see how he isn't meeting expectations when being a >50+/-2 point forward in this league makes you a top line winger. I'm not just making this up the numbers are there on NHL.com to back this up if you don't believe me. For some unknown reason apparently being a top line player means you have to be a 70+ pt guy which would put you in the top 25 in scoring in most years. That's just ridiculous.

If Laughton is a 15g/15a guy he'll be in the middle of the pack in terms of 3rd liners. If he's expected to be breaking 40 pts then we're talking 2nd line player here statistically. Again, Flyers fans need to lower their expectations when it comes to the young players.


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12-13-2013, 01:24 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
This is exactly what I'm talking about though. If he's expected to have first line potential then he's right on his way. He's on pace for 45+ point in his third yr, counting an injury shortened year and a lock out shortened yr (in which he also was on pace for 45 pts) as his first two. I don't see how he isn't meeting expectations when being a >50+/-2 point forward in this league makes you a top line winger. I'm not just making this up the numbers are there on NHL.com to back this up if you don't believe me. For some unknown reason apparently being a top line player means you have to be a 70+ pt guy which would put you in the top 25 in scoring in most years. That's just ridiculous.

If Laughton is a 15g/15a guy he'll be in the middle of the pack in terms of 3rd liners. If he's expected to be breaking 40 pts then we're talking 2nd line player here statistically. Again, Flyers fans need to lower their expectations when it comes to the young players.
I am agreeing with you.

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12-13-2013, 01:27 PM
  #983
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillDineen View Post
B. Schenn was supposdely "the best player not in the nhl" as a prospect. That equates to a first line potential. he does not look like he is achieving his expectations. If Laughton is a two way 15-20 goal scorer, that isn't bad.
My bad, the bold above confused me.

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Old
12-13-2013, 02:30 PM
  #984
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I'm not saying Laughton will be a better point producer than Schenn in their prime, but I think he has he potential to be a more valuable player for us. I can see Laughton being a 15-20 goal, 45-50 point center with grit, good 2-way play and leadership qualities. Schenn is sporadic at best on the defensive side of the puck, is only physical when he wants to be and let's be honest; his hockey IQ is lacking a bit as he's not always sure of where he's supposed to be on the ice whether it's to get himself into scoring position or defending a rush on the back check. He seems to chase the play quite a bit and looks lost unless he has the puck on his stick in the slot.

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Old
12-13-2013, 03:12 PM
  #985
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
Yup, thing is people around here say this (not you necessarily) but don't understand what a third liner really is. I've heard people say B Schenn is gonna be a 3rd/2nd line winger. Meanwhile he's on pace for 45+ pts, was last year as well and is 22. Being a 50ish pt winger makes you a 1st line winger in this league so even if he doesn't improve he's already a solid 2nd line contributor, who's on the boarder of being a 1st line winger (without getting 1st line minutes). Being a 30 pt center is a 3rd line center but people around here will not be happy with Laughton if he's an annual 30 pt player. Greedy ****ers!
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
This is exactly what I'm talking about though. If he's expected to have first line potential then he's right on his way. He's on pace for 45+ point in his third yr while playing the 8th most minutes among forwards (under 16 minutes), that's almost dead last out of our top nine. Btw this is counting an injury shortened year and a lock out shortened yr (in which he also was on pace for 45 pts) as his first two. I don't see how he isn't meeting expectations when being a >50+/-2 point forward in this league makes you a top line winger. I'm not just making this up the numbers are there on NHL.com to back this up if you don't believe me. For some unknown reason apparently being a top line player means you have to be a 70+ pt guy which would put you in the top 25 in scoring in most years. That's just ridiculous.

If Laughton is a 15g/15a guy he'll be in the middle of the pack in terms of 3rd liners. If he's expected to be breaking 40 pts then we're talking 2nd line player here statistically. Again, Flyers fans need to lower their expectations when it comes to the young players.

I see what you're saying but you keep saying Schenn was on pace for 45 points but you aren't using the pace of other players too, your just using the total points. It would be like saying Taylor Hall had 53 points in 2011-2012 and Schenn was on pace for almost 50 so they are roughly the same player. Until you notice that Hall only played 60 games or whatever it was, his pace though would be closer to a 70+ point player.

Going scrictly on PPG looking at 2011-2012(last full season) the 90th best forward in the NHL after removing guys that played very few games, as far as PPG was Bobby Ryan at .7ppg and he had 57 points in 82 games. There were guys like Lecavalier who had 49 points in 64 games which is a 63 point pace so while he had less than 50 points, he clearly would have easily eclipsed that if you use pace the way you use Schenn's pace.

It's really more the pace of scoring that makes you a first line player. If a guy has 40points in 55 games hes clearly a first line player. If that same player had 40 points in 82 games, I'm sure they would be looking to move him off of that line.

Also, just because there are 90 guys playing on a first line in the NHL doesn't necessarily mean they are all first liners depending on your opinion of a first line player. That's like saying there are 30 #1 defenseman in the NHL when even the most optimistic Flyers fan will admit we don't have a #1 anymore.

Nothing against Schenn here, I'm taking a very patient approach to a lot of our young guys because I'm tired of seeing guys get run out of town and then tear it up somewhere else. I just wouldn't call Schenn a borderline first liner right now.

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Old
12-13-2013, 03:25 PM
  #986
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Originally Posted by StoneHands View Post
I see what you're saying but you keep saying Schenn was on pace for 45 points but you aren't using the pace of other players too, your just using the total points. It would be like saying Taylor Hall had 53 points in 2011-2012 and Schenn was on pace for almost 50 so they are roughly the same player. Until you notice that Hall only played 60 games or whatever it was, his pace though would be closer to a 70+ point player.

Going scrictly on PPG looking at 2011-2012(last full season) the 90th best forward in the NHL after removing guys that played very few games, as far as PPG was Bobby Ryan at .7ppg and he had 57 points in 82 games. There were guys like Lecavalier who had 49 points in 64 games which is a 63 point pace so while he had less than 50 points, he clearly would have easily eclipsed that if you use pace the way you use Schenn's pace.

It's really more the pace of scoring that makes you a first line player. If a guy has 40points in 55 games hes clearly a first line player. If that same player had 40 points in 82 games, I'm sure they would be looking to move him off of that line.

Also, just because there are 90 guys playing on a first line in the NHL doesn't necessarily mean they are all first liners depending on your opinion of a first line player. That's like saying there are 30 #1 defenseman in the NHL when even the most optimistic Flyers fan will admit we don't have a #1 anymore.

Nothing against Schenn here, I'm taking a very patient approach to a lot of our young guys because I'm tired of seeing guys get run out of town and then tear it up somewhere else. I just wouldn't call Schenn a borderline first liner right now.
When talking 50ish point totals as a bench mark for first liners I didn't include last season because it was a shortened season. I didn't feel like going through the top 30 left and top 30 right wingers (in terms of point totals) and calculating ppg numbers so I just went by the previous few yrs numbers. Even still if you want to use 55+ pts as a bench mark for first liners I still don't see how Schenn isn't on his way to being just that all things considered (he's only 22 and will fill out a bit more, experience: ~140 NHL regular season games equates to less then two season of experience, and ice time which is very low considering his expectations). Schenn is second on the team in terms of pts/60 minutes behind vinny which is really telling if you ask me. Just look at JVR's numbers after getting very similar ice time numbers under Lavy when he got moved to TO and his TOI skyrocketed. So maybe he's not as close as I made him sound but still.

Edit: in his last 81 games (this season and last season) he's got 44 pts. Again all things considered I don't really see how he's not on his way to being a 1st liner. He's already a solid 2nd line scorer.


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12-13-2013, 05:47 PM
  #987
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Does anyone have a link for the Union vs. St. Cloud State game tonight at 8:37?

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Old
12-13-2013, 06:05 PM
  #988
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I'd say the Refs stepped in before Morin hurt that guy.
I'm pretty sure they are being told to jump in now when a players helmet comes off.

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12-13-2013, 07:40 PM
  #989
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ADK was losing 1-0 after one to Hartford.

Akeson tied the game at one, going into the third shortly.

Holmstrom put ADK up 2-1. Game is now 2-2 though.

Game in OT at 2-2.

OT not enough, SO starting.

Phantoms win 3-2 in SO. Akeson and Straka were the two scorers in the SO.


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12-13-2013, 09:23 PM
  #990
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Morin with an assist.

Stolarz with a win, he stopped 32 of 34. He was also credited with a primary assist on the 1st goal.

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12-13-2013, 09:50 PM
  #991
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
ADK was losing 1-0 after one to Hartford.

Akeson tied the game at one, going into the third shortly.

Holmstrom put ADK up 2-1. Game is now 2-2 though.

Game in OT at 2-2.

OT not enough, SO starting.

Phantoms win 3-2 in SO. Akeson and Straka were the two scorers in the SO.
I'm so excited for the Phantoms to be here in the Lehigh Valley so I can watch all the games either live or on the local cable channel...

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12-14-2013, 05:47 AM
  #992
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I'm so excited for the Phantoms to be here in the Lehigh Valley so I can watch all the games either live or on the local cable channel...
When they were in Philly the games were barely ever televised. Do you know for a fact that'll change now that they are moving to Lehigh Valley?

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12-14-2013, 10:54 AM
  #993
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When they were in Philly the games were barely ever televised. Do you know for a fact that'll change now that they are moving to Lehigh Valley?
I'm 99.99% sure they said every game will be televised on Service Electrics cable TV channel.

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12-14-2013, 10:59 AM
  #994
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I'm 99.99% sure they said every game will be televised on Service Electrics cable TV channel.
I'm so jealous

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12-14-2013, 12:02 PM
  #995
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i found this table that i liked and decided to make one for our prospects

‏‏‏‏
#
prospect
pos.
country
acquired
round
% of vote
1
 ‏‏‏‏Scott Laughton
C
2012
1st
77.36%
2
 ‏‏‏‏Samuel Morin
D
2013
1st
59.70%
3
 ‏‏‏‏Robert Hägg
D
2013
2nd
69.74%
4
 ‏‏‏‏Shayne Gostisbehere
D
2012
3rd
66.33%
5
 ‏‏‏‏Anthony Stolarz
G
2012
2nd
48.15%
6
 ‏‏‏‏Nick Cousins
C
2011
3rd
77.22%
7
 ‏‏‏‏Petr Straka
RW
2013
2nd
39.17%
8
 ‏‏‏‏Tye McGinn
LW
2010
4th
63.33%
9
 ‏‏‏‏Jason Akeson
C/RW
2011
N/A
28.28%
10
 ‏‏‏‏Mark Alt
D
Trade
2nd
36.36%
11
 ‏‏‏‏Marcel Noebels
LW
2011
4th
45.31%
12
 ‏‏‏‏Oliver Lauridsen
D
2010
7th
40.38%
13
 ‏‏‏‏Taylor Leier
LW
2012
4th
36.84%
14
 ‏‏‏‏Brandon Manning
D
2011
N/A
31.48%
15
 ‏‏‏‏Marc-Andre Bourdon
D
2008
3rd
42.55%
16
 ‏‏‏‏Kyle Flanagan
LW
2012
7th
35.85%
17
 ‏‏‏‏Valeri Vasiliev
D
2012
7th
46.67%
18
 ‏‏‏‏Frederic Larsson
D
2012
4th
30.43%
19
 ‏‏‏‏Reece Willcox
D
2012
5th
44.90%
20
 ‏‏‏‏Tyrell Goulbourne
LW
2013
3rd
46.00%

took the standings from here http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1493087

maybe if you have an idea to add something to make this table better just let me know and i'll work on it

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Old
12-14-2013, 12:14 PM
  #996
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This thread is locked as it nears 1,000 posts.

A new thread for comments is here: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1560785

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