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Trade Rumors/Speculation Part VIII: Trades for no reason

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Old
12-14-2013, 10:58 AM
  #51
pld459666
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As far as hockey goes, Evander Kane would be great in NY. As long as the cost is not prohibitive. A deal of Brassard, MDZ and a 2nd is a deal I would do.

He fits a need of a top line scoring winger that has thus far under achieved a bit in his career.

Outside of the game, having a young man of what looks to be African decent he can make a huge impact in the NYC community because while the players on the team can be looked up to, the guys on the Rangers right now will never be what the kids in the Hockey in Harlem program are and that is black.

Not a racist comment, so please save that ****.

Willie O Ree was a great role model for young black men that wanted to play a game that was dominated by white players. His presence in the NHL got youngsters to know that if you want to, you can.

Granted, the goal is to get the best players regardless of race, creed, color or religion,.

However, there are a lot of good players in the NHL of African decent and from a hockey perspective and both an outreach standpoint and a business view it would make sense to look to bring in BOTH Kane and Byfuglien

both players would make the Rangers better immediately. So that is the first hurdle. the fact that both (I think) have African blood lines is a plus.

It's a fact of life, it's not a racist POV, it is what it is. Young black men find it easier to relate to professional players of the same skin tone.

it's an 800 pound gorilla in the room that folks have a tough time discussing because it IS a sensitive subject, but one that should be taken into consideration.

I don't think I have said anything offensive, and if anyone took what I said as on insult, I apologize. I cannot begin to think that everyone will perceive what I stated in the manner in which it was intended.

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Old
12-14-2013, 11:04 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
id love to get him here. at least he adds intensity in his game unlike Nash who looks like hed rather be somewhere else
He's probably thinking Columbus wasn't that bad. But hey he's yours now, we don't want him back.

Unfortunately what you are seeing with Nash is what we had all the time-flashes/stretches of brilliance followed by a string of MIA's.

I suppose someone out there would bite for a similar package like the Jackets got but I don't think that is the Rangers style of building a team.

Good luck.

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12-14-2013, 11:08 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by EspenK View Post
He's probably thinking Columbus wasn't that bad. But hey he's yours now, we don't want him back.

Unfortunately what you are seeing with Nash is what we had all the time-flashes/stretches of brilliance followed by a string of MIA's.

I suppose someone out there would bite for a similar package like the Jackets got but I don't think that is the Rangers style of building a team.

Good luck.

Nash is a skilled forward but he is the type you add if your close to winning. he is not the player you build around.. he does not have heart or intensity at all and tends to swipe with the stick too much instead of playing physical. another big forward that does not use his size on a consistent basis... not saying he is soft, but he should be more physical especially at home to get the crowd into the game.. i liked the trade although i wish Nash had Dubinsky's grit and emotion. he would be a better player if he had that in his game..

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12-14-2013, 11:08 AM
  #54
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Yes please

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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Man. Judging from the product on the ice, the posts in this thread, some of the stuff out in the media....

The Rangers are really at a crossroads here. More than ever before really.

Unfortunately, as long as Lundqvist is here a true rebuild will never happen. You guys have to realize that. For the next 8 years, regardless, the Rangers are going to push to be a competitive team in the NHL. Right now is a major inflection point. Do we continue down mediocrity, and hope that a big signing / trade finally puts us over the top?

Do we true rebuild and make Lundqvist's next 3 or 4 years here tough?

Do we restock wisely, while losing important future assets? A guy like Miller, Fast, Lindberg, or Skjei? Or draft picks?

Yikes.

Consistently mediocre. Consistently clinching a playoff berth in the last game of the season. Destined for a 1st or 2nd round exit.

Push through this season. Trade Girardi for a top 6 forward. Trade DZ for an RHD of equal value. Don't re-sign Callahan. Put everything we have into Phaneuf and Stastny in the off-season. Now THAT is New York Rangers hockey

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12-14-2013, 11:09 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Man. Judging from the product on the ice, the posts in this thread, some of the stuff out in the media....

The Rangers are really at a crossroads here. More than ever before really.
Yeah it's time to reestablish an identity for this team, one that the city will embrace.

It comes down to who you want to keep, and who you view as valuable. The futurists on here will cringe at the thought of losing potential, but Brady Skjei isn't going to be a top 4 offensive defenseman. He isn't going to be a top 4 D for another 2 years as a best case scenario. How does that translate to wins?

WPG can trade Big Buff because of Trouba and Bogo being RHD that can log big minutes. In other words they have a ready made replacement for him right now.

EKane is a tougher trade for them to make as they would be selling low on a player that can haunt the franchise and cost a few jobs down the line. Big Buff is a different story, as Trouba can take his role, and WPG cashes in on an asset that might walk, on top of filling organizational needs.

If Brassard is a 40 pt player through 82, then don't the Rangers have ready made replacements in Lindberg and Miller? It might have to be by committee but it's not as if Brassard is irreplaceable.

Say yeah the Rangers lose a chunk of the farm in trading for Big Buff, but is that loss not recoverable for trading rentals like a Stralman?


Let's say it cost Brassard, JMoore, Hrivik, Skjei, 2nd for Buff and Peluso or Thorburn.

Rangers trade Stralman for a prospect and 2nd at the dead line.

What if the Rangers D looked like this:

McD-G
Staal-Buff
DZ-McIlrath

If a physically underdeveloped player cannot score, defend or win battles, then they aren't part of a winning formula. I would look to trade those assets. And yes that includes Fast, Zucc, Brass, Dorsett, DMoore, Pouliot.

Look at the standings, and look at the size of those teams. Big boy game, big boy league.

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Old
12-14-2013, 11:12 AM
  #56
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These rumors just terrify me. Buff? Kane? This isn't like the Gomez thing (where Slats moved an older, declining guy for youth). This would be moving youth/futures for "star power" and headlines. This, like the Nash trade, is pure, vintage, dark ages Ranger hockey. It seems that Sather has gone back to his old ways, and that is NOT a good thing for this hockey team.

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Old
12-14-2013, 11:17 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
These rumors just terrify me. Buff? Kane? This isn't like the Gomez thing (where Slats moved an older, declining guy for youth). This would be moving youth/futures for "star power" and headlines. This, like the Nash trade, is pure, vintage, dark ages Ranger hockey. It seems that Sather has gone back to his old ways, and that is NOT a good thing for this hockey team.
Kane is 22 years old. its not like he is a 32 year old vet. Kane would be a good edition.. dont fans realize that the Rangers need more than 1 sniper.. all great teams have at least 2 players that score 30 goals.. Rangers only have 1.

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12-14-2013, 11:19 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
However, there are a lot of good players in the NHL of African decent and from a hockey perspective and both an outreach standpoint and a business view it would make sense to look to bring in BOTH Kane and Byfuglien
From a business standpoint, this mean Jersey sales will penetrate a NY area market that is in the millions. I think both EKane and Big Buff can be tremendous ambassadors for a programs like Hockey in Harlem, and the Kingsborough Ice Center. A move like this can really help grow the game.

EKane's and Big Buff's marketability would be through the roof in NYC. MSG would be beyond stupid to not consider moving the frou frou and soft out of the line up for something that fills a hockey need in addition to growing the brand tremendously.

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Old
12-14-2013, 11:20 AM
  #59
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Would love to add Byfuglien. Absolutely love it.

Kane I have hesitations about. He's had a couple of off-ice issues. Bringing that to New York? Sure the spotlight isn't as large here for hockey, but it's New York.

A package of E. Kane and Flufflin is going to cost a lot.

It starts with Miller. It leads into a 1st round draft pick. It costs Del Zotto, too. And that's to start. When in reality, it probably looks something like.....

Miller, DZ, Skjei, Brassard/Hagelin, 1st in 2014.

Still think WPG laughs and hangs up.

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Old
12-14-2013, 11:21 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
Really, people are still buying into the "NY will revitalize him!!" thing?

I like Kane, but I would not expect him to magically be anything other than what he has shown/projects to be.

On the contrary I would argue that if anything he is way more likely to come here and get distracted and disinterested. Script has played out way too many times.
All I'm saying is that he's doesn't seams to enjoy the life in general up in Winnipeg and NY probably would be a much better fit for him as a person. And well I'm buying into the better you enjoy your life and environment the better will you perform whatever your profession may be.

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Old
12-14-2013, 11:28 AM
  #61
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Let's see what the trade board thinks...

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1560701

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12-14-2013, 11:28 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
These rumors just terrify me. Buff? Kane? This isn't like the Gomez thing (where Slats moved an older, declining guy for youth). This would be moving youth/futures for "star power" and headlines. This, like the Nash trade, is pure, vintage, dark ages Ranger hockey. It seems that Sather has gone back to his old ways, and that is NOT a good thing for this hockey team.
I don't know. I think this is a little different. Byfuglien is 28 years old, still early in his prime. Kane is 22, probably not even in his prime yet. The organization rarely puts itself in a position to draft game-changing talent. And when they do they waste in choices like Lundmark, Brendl, Montoya.

The Dark Ages were trading 24-year old Mike York and a pick for 30-year-old Rem Murray, picks and prospects for a 30-year-old Bure on his last legs. 25-year old Mikael Samuelsson and prospects for a disgruntled 30-year-old Alexei Kovalev.

It's clear this team needs offensive talent. I'm fully on board with trading for it, so long as the guys they target haven't obviously peaked already.

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Old
12-14-2013, 11:29 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Mikos87 View Post
Yeah it's time to reestablish an identity for this team, one that the city will embrace.

It comes down to who you want to keep, and who you view as valuable. The futurists on here will cringe at the thought of losing potential, but Brady Skjei isn't going to be a top 4 offensive defenseman. He isn't going to be a top 4 D for another 2 years as a best case scenario. How does that translate to wins?

WPG can trade Big Buff because of Trouba and Bogo being RHD that can log big minutes. In other words they have a ready made replacement for him right now.

EKane is a tougher trade for them to make as they would be selling low on a player that can haunt the franchise and cost a few jobs down the line. Big Buff is a different story, as Trouba can take his role, and WPG cashes in on an asset that might walk, on top of filling organizational needs.

If Brassard is a 40 pt player through 82, then don't the Rangers have ready made replacements in Lindberg and Miller? It might have to be by committee but it's not as if Brassard is irreplaceable.

Say yeah the Rangers lose a chunk of the farm in trading for Big Buff, but is that loss not recoverable for trading rentals like a Stralman?


Let's say it cost Brassard, JMoore, Hrivik, Skjei, 2nd for Buff and Peluso or Thorburn.

Rangers trade Stralman for a prospect and 2nd at the dead line.

What if the Rangers D looked like this:

McD-G
Staal-Buff
DZ-McIlrath

If a physically underdeveloped player cannot score, defend or win battles, then they aren't part of a winning formula. I would look to trade those assets. And yes that includes Fast, Zucc, Brass, Dorsett, DMoore, Pouliot.

Look at the standings, and look at the size of those teams. Big boy game, big boy league.
Chicago says hello
Nash, Boyle, Pouliot, Pyatt, Kreider + most of the D are all "big boys". All except Kreider have brought very little to nothing. The fascination with Gargantuas is sickening. Skilled ones YES. But come on...

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Old
12-14-2013, 11:31 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Chicago says hello
Chicago has four players on their roster listed under 6 feet tall. No dmen, all forwards.

Wait a minute, they have Patty Kane listed at 5'11"????

Never mind because that seems like a load of **** to me.

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12-14-2013, 11:37 AM
  #65
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Chicago has four players on their roster listed under 6 feet tall. No dmen, all forwards.

Wait a minute, they have Patty Kane listed at 5'11"????

Never mind because that seems like a load of **** to me.
Rangers have 3 players under 6 feet (Zucc, Hagelin + Callahan). Asham is also there but has barely played. Stralman too. Of these 4 players - Zucc and Stralman have been 2 of the better performers this season (not saying much). Cally and Hagelin both have come off surgery - so maybe their sub-par seasons can be explained. The Big Boys have no such excuses. They simply suck. Or do not fit

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12-14-2013, 11:37 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
These rumors just terrify me. Buff? Kane? This isn't like the Gomez thing (where Slats moved an older, declining guy for youth). This would be moving youth/futures for "star power" and headlines. This, like the Nash trade, is pure, vintage, dark ages Ranger hockey. It seems that Sather has gone back to his old ways, and that is NOT a good thing for this hockey team.
I wouldn't go as far as to say it is the Dark Ages all over again.

This team is handcuffed by Sather's reign. They cannot go in to a rebuild. They cannot trade everyone for draft picks and prospects. It is an unrealistic position to take. Plodding on the way they are now is also not going to happen. I am not necessarily advocating for these moves myself, but this is the situation of this team love it or hate it.

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12-14-2013, 11:37 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Chicago says hello
Nash, Boyle, Pouliot, Pyatt, Kreider + most of the D are all "big boys". All except Kreider have brought very little to nothing. The fascination with Gargantuas is sickening. Skilled ones YES. But come on...
That team has size and blocks shots. Also has guys that can step up and do the dirty work. In other words that roster doesn't have much flaws.

How about some balls to go with size. Maybe the motto should be to not acquire players with Low T.

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12-14-2013, 11:39 AM
  #68
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oh btw size isn't about height. It's about physical maturity. Height isn't an indication of muscle mass or strength, so let's not limit it to simply how tall a guy is.

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12-14-2013, 11:40 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Mikos87 View Post
That team has size and blocks shots. Also has guys that can step up and do the dirty work. In other words that roster doesn't have much flaws.

How about some balls to go with size. Maybe the motto should be to not acquire players with Low T.
The GM ran outta T in an age before most guys on these boards were chosen to be a new product of their Daddies T overload. Could that be the problem?

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12-14-2013, 11:43 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Mikos87 View Post
oh btw size isn't about height. It's about physical maturity. Height isn't an indication of muscle mass or strength, so let's not limit it to simply how tall a guy is.
http://www.theworldsstrongestman.com...hor-bjornsson/

I know this guy pretty well. Should we pitch in and buy him some skates?

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Old
12-14-2013, 11:45 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Mikos87 View Post
That team has size and blocks shots. Also has guys that can step up and do the dirty work. In other words that roster doesn't have much flaws.

How about some balls to go with size. Maybe the motto should be to not acquire players with Low T.

i want big forwards that know how to use that size and have guts... Rangers seem to like big forwards that play a soft slow non physical type of game

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Old
12-14-2013, 11:46 AM
  #72
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ARMCHAIR GM TIME!

Let's just say, for arguments sake...

Rangers trade:

Callahan, Del Zotto, JT Miller, Brady Skjei, 1st in 2014

for

E. Kane, Dustin Byfuglien.

Rangers sign Paul Stastny. 6 years at $6 million (typical Sather, but realistic I think )
Ott for 2 years at 3.25

Kreider (2.25) - Stepan (3.075) - Nash (7.8)
E. Kane (5.25) - Stastny (6) - Zuccarello (2.5)
Hagelin (2.25) - Ott (3.25) - Kristo (.826)
Boyle (1.5) - Lindberg (.675) - Dorsett (1.633333)
Beach (.605)

McDonagh (4.7) - Byfuglien (5.2)
Staal (3.975) - Stralman (3)
Moore (1.5) - McIlrath (.703333)
Falk (1.023750)

Lundqvist (8.5)
Talbot (.5625)

Looking over this roster. Center-depth leaves something to be desired unless Stastny can refind his game here. Ott as a stop gap until Lindberg is ready for a top-9 role. Who knows, maybe he pushes Stastny for top 6 in a few years?

Defense is VERY strong pending the growth of Moore and McIlrath from this season to next.

Wingers are also insanely strong, maybe too much to ask from Kristo. But that spot could go to him, Fast, or another winger who steps up - who knows - I just want a kid there.

Finally, a true fourth line.

This is a team that can play AV hockey.


Last edited by silverfish: 12-14-2013 at 11:52 AM.
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Old
12-14-2013, 11:47 AM
  #73
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Rangers IMO will not trade any 1st or 2nd round pick this or next year. They badly need to re-stock their farm system. They will probably acquire more picks.

If the Rangers were to swing a deal for Kane by offering something like Hagelin and MDZ. They will power forward it up with Kane, Nash and Kreider. If the season goes badly from there on, they dump Callahan and Girardi at the deadline for a crap load of picks and a couple of physical prospects.

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12-14-2013, 11:55 AM
  #74
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Stastny is the wrong kind of move we always make. We don't need a vet player that isn't a part of a winning team's equation. There is a reason they want to part with him. I know he's been enigmatic for a few years. He would do worse here, not turn it around.

Seguin is different. He's young, not a known quantity which is why Dallas and Boston gambled. Time cures maturity issues.

Our best bet is to get an up and comer at the deadline for our vets. Girardi for a Bennett, one of the LA wings drowning in depth. Callahan for chiason in Dallas. Last one is doubtful, just an example.

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12-14-2013, 12:01 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
Kane is 22 years old. its not like he is a 32 year old vet. Kane would be a good edition.. dont fans realize that the Rangers need more than 1 sniper.. all great teams have at least 2 players that score 30 goals.. Rangers only have 1.
Also, Winnipeg appears to be dealing from just as much weakness as us. Locker room rumors etc.

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