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Trade Rumors/Speculation Part VIII: Trades for no reason

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Old
12-14-2013, 01:14 PM
  #101
slipknottin
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Don't fans realize that trading our depth for unproven "snipers" is what got us in this mess in the first place?
I would prefer trading the top for more depth.

Nash for Kane + Big buff + Tangradi

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12-14-2013, 01:17 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
I've got lot's of work to do so this has to last a coupla days:

A new bernmeister plan!
Still advocating trading Stepan for huge return, but don't see Step + getting us Jones or MacKinnon. So...


Callahan + Girardi + Boyle + Zucarello + Dorsett + Michael St. Croix
for
Ashton, Raymond, Franson, TML 2014 1st

Rangers eat enough extra salary, ok cap to do deal. Rangers may take on a couple of no name deadwood pieces for contract limits/defray cap.

6 for 3 + a 1st pick
Pros for Leafs: Callahan will be healthy in about a month. He should be difference maker in how far Leafs go in playoffs. Girardi will stabilize D. Boyle wins Fos, helps on D. Dorsett adds bottom 6 grit and defense. Zuc an X factor, St. Croix could make bottom 6 and has scoring track record. Gives Leafs inside track on all free agents here, espec. Girardi. Nothing is 100% but believed Girardi wants to be paid (not Doughty/Weber $$$$, but $); and if Leafs do not lowball, the fit should stick. Callahan long term another story, but if both sides do a 1 yr to start, no reason to see why he also might not be renewed. Boyle also UFA. Again, Toronto $$ as good as anyone else’s, but will depend upon what BB considers best fit, and if ridiculous numbers are thrown his way.

Cons for Leafs: Raymond is a nice role player. Franson eclipsed by Girardi. But Carter is a former 1st, and Leafs surrender their 1st this year, which will diminish in value as team improves and advances.

Conclusion: win for leafs.

Rangers:
Pros: Move salary FAs to be, get useful assets.
Cons: can be short term pain



Stepan + Brassard + Hagelin + MDZ + Franson + Adam Tambellini + (Tommy Hughes undrafted free agent RD w/size), Rangers 1st 2015
for
Myers, Ristolainen, Buffalo 2014 1st

Buf pros — Solid 1C in Stepan; additional C depth in Brassard (must be re-signed, though); Hagelin not the scoring LW sought but a clear contributor, can score with right line mates. MDZ provides some solid LD, just don’t play him opposite side, not a prob as Buf is still good with RD; Franson a wash on D but helps offensively at RD; Hughes a crapshoot but interesting project to see if he can challenge down the road; Rangers next year 1st, is a pick that won’t be as low as Buf’s this year, but still could get a decent prospect. Rights to Tambellini (no cap), he was first third pick selected last draft, is 3 years away, but a very solid, 2 way prospect. Move a big talent, but also a big salary, in Myers.

Sabres Cons: Myers looked good enough to get a big deal after his rookie season, then sucked as a soph. Seems to be rebounding a bit. Losing a big salary number, but also talent/potential. Rasmus Ristolainen, likewise, a big talent. Finally, that is a top pick. But Stepan is known commodity, so loss is undetermined potential vs. non-existent bust factor.

Rangers: pros resolve RD/RD depth. Get a great pick.
Cons: decimate much of team, but there is a reasonable gamble that these assets can be replaced from within or outside by next season, gives balance of this year to get that team of next year jump started now. That has to be weighed vs. certain guys not yet on ELC coming in now and their clock starting in mid year.

Likely Rangers lineup:

Hrivik Richards Nash
Kreider Miller Ashton
Raymond Lindberg Fast
Yogan D. Moore Asham

Next year Richards is gone. Asham I liked as a character guy but would not renew. Kristo is in the equation. Ott of Bufallo becomes FA, I think UFA, may be an option at C for right number, short term deal. Ditto Stastny, who could alternatively be LW for us. Only at reasonable short term deal. Am looking to promote from within, these combos might be best but I like D Moore’s game and if he is willing to do grunt setup for Nash and a W, why not give him a shot? Multiple possibilities. After Richards exits next season, if you entertain a tryout w/D Moore on our first line, you now create a slot for a guy like Beach on the 4th line, where he might cut it, so we could get our monies worth.


I recommend we use our picks, esp. the high Buf first, wisely. Unlikely to trade. Build.

We are waiting, likely another year, on Boo Nieves. In the meantime.

Pouilot, Pyatt – send Pyatt for conditional 7th to anyone, same with Poo

depth:
Tyler Pitlick is a second round of Oilers, still looking at G options.
Bourque, Missainen, Stacjer and 4th rounder for Pitlick and 2 deadwood, neutral cap dumps. We will find our own minor league G depth replacements.

McNeill was taken by the Hawks, I believe shortly after Miller.
He’s underwhelmed. They won’t give him away at this point. I think they would discount, not sure how much, prob want a 2nd. Think we want a cheap enough price: say 5th rounder Thomas Spelling and a 4th?

LD RD
McDonagh Myers
Staal Stralman
J. Moore McIlrath/Ristolainen
Skjei

constructive feedback welcomed.

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Old
12-14-2013, 01:19 PM
  #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
I would prefer trading the top for more depth.

Nash for Kane + Big buff + Tangradi
Lol. Winnipeg does this why?

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Old
12-14-2013, 01:21 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
no way. UFA as 1st time at his age.. why would he not want to test the market. i bet he leaves. i bet teams will pay him 2.5 at most per year..
I'd consider giving him 2.2-2.5 for 3 years. You can't short change the heart and soul guys on the team. Let's learn from our mistakes.

Sather probably won't.

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12-14-2013, 01:21 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Lol. Winnipeg does this why?
I thought they were trying to move Kane and buff earlier this season.

Rangers moved 80 points worth of players plus a good prospect plus their first round pick for Nash...

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12-14-2013, 01:23 PM
  #106
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Also, did someone say Byfuglien is hard to play against earlier in this thread/last thread?

Not sure I actually saw that, or read it in a nightmare.

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12-14-2013, 01:25 PM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Don't fans realize that trading our depth for unproven "snipers" is what got us in this mess in the first place?
At the time it was a good move, then came a bunch of underachieving by Gabby and Richards. Had they played to their potential we'd have been a better team and the lack of secondary production wouldn't have been an issue. Obviously they didn't and Gabby got moved in an attempt to add secondary scoring, which failed. Now we're back at square one except now the whole team sucks, including defense and goaltending which had been our strengths.

It's a vicious cycle, making a trade for a player like Kane is a bad idea IF the cost to acquire him is high. If for some reason he comes relatively cheap it's a good move. Adds another top six player to grow with the team. Basically if it's done in the mindset that we're going to try contend it's not worth doing because we're obviously not going to. If it's done looking into the future and is one of a number of moves I'm ok with it.

Management needs to wake up and smell the roses, this team is closer to being a contender for a lottery pick than the cup. A large portion of their fans know that, they need to accept it themselves and try retool for a run in 2-3 years.

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Old
12-14-2013, 01:25 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
I thought they were trying to move Kane and buff earlier this season.

Rangers moved 80 points worth of players plus a good prospect plus their first round pick for Nash...
So we're trading our best player for a headache, a stomache ache, and a fringe 3rd/4th liner.

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Old
12-14-2013, 01:27 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
So we're trading our best player for a headache, a stomache ache, and a fringe 3rd/4th liner.
I love these forums.

First response "why would winnipeg make that trade!"

Second response "why would the rangers want that trade"

Sounds like the value is about right then

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Old
12-14-2013, 01:28 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
I thought they were trying to move Kane and buff earlier this season.

Rangers moved 80 points worth of players plus a good prospect plus their first round pick for Nash...
And Kane and Byfuglien are about 110 points of players, so...

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12-14-2013, 01:30 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
And Kane and Byfuglien are about 110 points of players, so...
So there are no prospects or first round pick changing hands

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12-14-2013, 01:30 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by bernmeister View Post
I've got lot's of work to do so this has to last a coupla days:
No, please! I need my fix. You're the only one who's got the good stuff!

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12-14-2013, 01:31 PM
  #113
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bern, how is it that your proposals always make the Rangers worse?

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Old
12-14-2013, 01:31 PM
  #114
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http://www.theworldsstrongestman.com...hor-bjornsson/

I know this guy pretty well. Should we pitch in and buy him some skates?
Does he add toughness?

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Old
12-14-2013, 01:32 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
So there are no prospects or first round pick changing hands
Nash is also almost two years older.

And 110 points for two players (one of them being a defenseman) is not nearly close to 40 points for 2 players, even if looking at trades with an arithmetic sum of points made any sense to begin with.

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12-14-2013, 01:35 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Nash is also almost two years older.

And 110 points for two players (one of them being a defenseman) is not nearly close to 40 points for 2 players, even if looking at trades with an arithmetic sum of points made any sense to begin with.
So in your opinion. That winnipeg was trying to trade both buff and Kane has no bearing at all in trade value?

Nash is not valuable enough for those players?

What would the rangers have to add to the pot? Girardi? Staal?

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12-14-2013, 01:37 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
At the time it was a good move, then came a bunch of underachieving by Gabby and Richards. Had they played to their potential we'd have been a better team and the lack of secondary production wouldn't have been an issue. Obviously they didn't and Gabby got moved in an attempt to add secondary scoring, which failed. Now we're back at square one except now the whole team sucks, including defense and goaltending which had been our strengths.

It's a vicious cycle, making a trade for a player like Kane is a bad idea IF the cost to acquire him is high. If for some reason he comes relatively cheap it's a good move. Adds another top six player to grow with the team. Basically if it's done in the mindset that we're going to try contend it's not worth doing because we're obviously not going to. If it's done looking into the future and is one of a number of moves I'm ok with it.

Management needs to wake up and smell the roses, this team is closer to being a contender for a lottery pick than the cup. A large portion of their fans know that, they need to accept it themselves and try retool for a run in 2-3 years.
I agree. But I don't think Kane should be part of that retooling process. And even then, I think the retooling can take 1 year of sucking (this year) and then have noticeable progress moving forward.

Top 5 pick this year, we should be looking to draft Dal Colle or Draisaitl. Big center who can be physical.

Strategic trading should net us more pieces for the future. DZ + Brassard could get us a good 2nd line forward.

Girardi could further help the retooling process by getting another 1st and a top 3 prospect.

You can't completely trade everyone. Players are needed for the transition. Preferably, I'd love to keep Callahan and Staal because of their character, but that may even be a challenge. Callahan will command 5-5.75 mill a year for 5-6 years. Is that worth it for someone who hasn't had a fully healthy year in 3-4 years? Additionally, once the retooling begins, what's to say Staal doesn't feel like going through it, and tells management his intentions are to go to Carolina.

Let's say both Cally and Staal remain to be a part of our core for the next 6 years. We've now traded DZ, Brass, and Girardi and some players for the future.

Miller will be ready to go for next year. Kristo too. Lindberg may or may not be. We'll also have like 30-40 mill of cap space.

The final part is signing the veterans we want to form the identity of the club. Tough, gritty, guys who don't quit. We can't just go with talent. We need specific characteristics. Resilience.

We could make the playoffs next year, and then make a serious push for the cup the year after that. But that's only if Sather adheres to some sort of plan. Doing nothing, or even worse, trading for a piece that sets us back depth wise, will sink this club back into the early 00 dark ages.

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12-14-2013, 01:41 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
So in your opinion. That winnipeg was trying to trade both buff and Kane has no bearing at all in trade value?

Nash is not valuable enough for those players?

What would the rangers have to add to the pot? Girardi? Staal?
Probably both. And a couple of firsts. Maybe even Kreider too but Sather is a magician so you never know.

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12-14-2013, 01:45 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
So in your opinion. That winnipeg was trying to trade both buff and Kane has no bearing at all in trade value?

Nash is not valuable enough for those players?

What would the rangers have to add to the pot? Girardi? Staal?
I've heard the Jets were listening on Kane. Haven't heard anything on Byfuglien.

The Jackets had to trade Nash, and had one realistic option.

What would the Rangers have to add? I don't know. I'm not sure Nash is even something the Jets would covet. And I'm pretty sure the Rangers wrote Nash's no trade provisions back into his contract, so I'm not gonna spend a lot of time thinking about it.

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12-14-2013, 01:48 PM
  #120
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Don't fans realize that trading our depth for unproven "snipers" is what got us in this mess in the first place?
You call Kane an unproven sniper and then advocate using draft pics to fix our team. There is nothing more unproven than a draft pic. You act as if draft pics are a sure thing, which is the exact opposite of the truth.

Also, Kane is no sniper. He is a guy that can do it all including make his own offense and he's still so young.

Kane is far more proven than a guy who has never played a game. I understand you don't want him because of report personality issues but what you are saying is inaccurate.

Kane would mature and grow with Stepan, macD, and our other staters. Perfect fit IMO.

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12-14-2013, 01:48 PM
  #121
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I would love Ekane on this team but he is a like a 1B/C or 2A winger at best so the thing is, I'm not enamored with moving too many assets for him ESPECIALLY if those assets can be used to acquire a 1A talent. What could be good however is that he hasn't had that great of a season so far so if Sather can buy low and essentially swing MDZ for EKane, I take that deal for sure.

There are also a lot of great players available on the UFA market next year. Granted we have a lot of players we will want to retain and/or extend. One old RD out there I'd be interested in is Dan Boyle. That guy is going to play to Niklas Lidstrom age so even at age 37, you could sign him to a 3 year contract. Not saying that's what i'd do...

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12-14-2013, 01:50 PM
  #122
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Probably both. And a couple of firsts. Maybe even Kreider too but Sather is a magician so you never know.
Kane and bfyuglein are worth staal + Nash + girardi + krieder + a couple firsts?

Lmao

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12-14-2013, 01:55 PM
  #123
Rust Heisenberg
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You call Kane an unproven sniper and then advocate using draft pics to fix our team. There is nothing more unproven than a draft pic. You act as if draft pics are a sure thing, which is the exact opposite of the truth.

Also, Kane is no sniper. He is a guy that can do it all including make his own offense and he's still so young.

Kane is far more proven than a guy who has never played a game. I understand you don't want him because of report personality issues but what you are saying is inaccurate.

Kane would mature and grow with Stepan, macD, and our other staters. Perfect fit IMO.
I use draft picks to fix the team because they add depth. In some way or another, they will add depth.

1) We're not losing prospects, picks, players to get 1 guy who is the definition of inconsistent. Forget all the off ice stuff i've talked about. Kane is a 60 point player. What's his ceiling? Can't be all too much higher. He's never done anything to prove otherwise, statistically.
2) We are in this **** hole now because we lost all of our depth. Depth that held our identity. Depth that held balance. There wasn't necessarily a lot of scoring talent on the guys we gave up, but they gave us a balanced attack.

We're not getting our solutions through trades or FA signings. Get some draft picks. Hope. Surround the prospects and rookies with good veteran leadership. That's the road to success. Not continue to trade for inconsistent talent that may or may not reach the height of their potential in NY.

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12-14-2013, 01:57 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
Kane and bfyuglein are worth staal + Nash + girardi + krieder + a couple firsts?

Lmao
That's at the very least too.

He might even have to add in Hagelin, Talbot, and McDonough. But i'm uncertain. I don't have a good sense of demand and negotiation tactics.

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12-14-2013, 01:58 PM
  #125
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Kane has no upside?

He's 22 years old.

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