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value of Sheldon Souray...

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Old
01-09-2007, 11:35 AM
  #1
Galchenyuk x 27
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value of Sheldon Souray...

Tommorow afternoon between noon and 1, his agent will be on the team 990 to discuss about him.

He apparently right now is out having lunch with his agent discussing things.

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01-09-2007, 11:38 AM
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Blind Gardien
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Hopefully they're discussing the new 5-year $30M contract offer that the Habs just made to him.

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01-09-2007, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Hopefully they're discussing the new 5-year $30M contract offer that the Habs just made to him.
I'd much rather give that money to Markov.

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Old
01-09-2007, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Hopefully they're discussing the new 5-year $30M contract offer that the Habs just made to him.
holy cap batman!!!!!

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01-09-2007, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Hopefully they're discussing the new 5-year $30M contract offer that the Habs just made to him.


I really hope your wrong

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01-09-2007, 11:46 AM
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Blind Gardien
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
I'd much rather give that money to Markov.
I'd like to see both of them get it.

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01-09-2007, 11:46 AM
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Frankly, I don't think the Habs should offer anything that his agent is likely to ask (i.e. McCabe+ money).

It would be a big loss for the team to let him go but no player is unreplaceable. I'd give the money to Markov first; then if Souray wants to sign in the 4M-ish range for a few years (3-4), maybe throw in an NTC and some bonuses.

If we do lose him, I'm confident in Markov-Streit-Dandy's abilities to run the PP. Kovalev could easily play the point as well.

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01-09-2007, 12:19 PM
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as mush as i love his offensive play this season along with his physical play and leadership, he still makes a number of mistakes along with turnovers in the defensive zone. i just dont think he is worth more than 4 million, and likely some other wack job GM will offer big money, so i think we should just trade him.

i would really like to trade him to EDM for Stoll, he is a good center with a nice shot and he can play the point on the pp. edm wants scoring defense, so i think this could be a good trade. plus after picking up nedved, they have some depth up front.

i also think striet could be given more ice time, and he has a pretty good shot too. not to mention that we will hopefully be having Emelin come to the lineup next season to supply another physical element.

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Old
01-09-2007, 12:32 PM
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Depends:

Souray made out of copper would be worth = $581.40
Souray made out of pork bellies would be worth = $20,207.64
Souray made out of silver would be worth = $34,254.72
Souray made out of gold would be worth = $1,679,356.80
Souray made out of platinum would be worth = $3,088,944.00

All figures in US dollars and weight assumed at 228 lbs

Souray as a UFA is probably worth around 4.5 to 5 million per annum

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01-09-2007, 12:39 PM
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Blind Gardien
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
Souray as a UFA is probably worth around 4.5 to 5 million per annum
Well, he may be worth $4.5-5M, agreed. But sadly, he'll probably get 25% more than he's worth, just due to the general insanity surrounding free agent signings.

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01-09-2007, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Hopefully they're discussing the new 5-year $30M contract offer that the Habs just made to him.
I really hope this is not true. 6 million per, over 5 years for a guy who will be 31 at the beginning of next season would be an atrocious deal.

There's really no way this can be true. I love the guy and what he brings to the table, and the positives do outweight the negatives, but I just don't see any way anyone can rationalize him being worth 6 mil. On the open market, some GM might dumb enough to offer it to him, but in terms of "real value" I don't see him being worth more than 4.5ish at most.

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01-09-2007, 12:43 PM
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Souray is great at what he does, but in the cap world, I don't think he is worth 5M. 4M at most for me. If they give him 5-6M you can kiss goodbye to having good depth.

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01-09-2007, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
Well, he may be worth $4.5-5M, agreed. But sadly, he'll probably get 25% more than he's worth, just due to the general insanity surrounding free agent signings.
I think he'll generate some interest around the league, but I think that GMs have learned a lesson with the Kubina and the JovoCop signings (which may mitigate the UFA inflation we've seen in the past). Then again with the with the cap set to go up and teams having room - what do I know?

I'm more concerned with signing Markov long term.

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Old
01-09-2007, 12:53 PM
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Souray won't be staying in Montreal at year's end so be ready for that.

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01-09-2007, 01:23 PM
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did montreal really offer him that much ????is that a joke ??
6M for a D that gets undressed by eevry forward !
arggghhhhhhh

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01-09-2007, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by shimy1221 View Post
did montreal really offer him that much ????is that a joke ??
6M for a D that gets undressed by eevry forward !
arggghhhhhhh
McCabe....

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01-09-2007, 01:50 PM
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6 mil per? Thats a little steep for strictly an offensive defenceman

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01-09-2007, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habfan4 View Post
I think he'll generate some interest around the league, but I think that GMs have learned a lesson with the Kubina and the JovoCop signings (which may mitigate the UFA inflation we've seen in the past). Then again with the with the cap set to go up and teams having room - what do I know?

I'm more concerned with signing Markov long term.
"GMs have learned a lesson"... well, that'd be about a first ever. I've heard that rational expectation (and expressed it myself) often enough only to be disappointed that I really can't believe it will ever happen. The cap is going up a bit. They expect it to go up a bit every year. They want to change the CBA so that they can trade cap space. Trust me, they haven't *Really* learned a lesson. Or at least, not enough of them have that it will stop the insanity in any meaningful way. There will be more "if Kubina and Jovo got $5M/$7M then surely Souray deserves $6M" than the reverse. Alas. (Always assuming he keeps up his current pace reasonably well, that is... 25 goals and 70 points on D will drop a few jaws and open a few wallets).

So there... now that I've thrown down the gauntlet to the NHL GMs, please feel free to go ahead and prove me wrong again... this time by acting rationally when I expect irrationality. Just for a change.

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01-09-2007, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascal View Post
Souray is great at what he does, but in the cap world, I don't think he is worth 5M. 4M at most for me. If they give him 5-6M you can kiss goodbye to having good depth.

On the open market Aucoin got 4, McCabe got 6 and Kubina got 5. Love to have Souray at 4, but both he and his agent know, he will get more.

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01-09-2007, 04:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
On the open market Aucoin got 4, McCabe got 6 and Kubina got 5. Love to have Souray at 4, but both he and his agent know, he will get more.
Of course his agent will want to ask for more and some dumb GM will give it to him. I'd frankly be pissed if Gainey gives it to him though. I'd much rather have Aucoin at 4 then Souray for whatever his agent will ask (likely 6 to 6.5) and back when Aucoin signed at 4, I was glad Gainey pulled out of that race (word is he was at 3.5 tops).

Let others overpay for players while we play with depth. We have some decent players in Emelin, O'Byrne, Valatenko, Fischer and Carle in the system who could fill in eventually; not to mention trade possibilities, or other UFAs.

Sure, losing Souray would be a pain but signing him at 6M+ would be agony.

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01-09-2007, 04:33 PM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyblaze View Post
Of course his agent will want to ask for more and some dumb GM will give it to him. I'd frankly be pissed if Gainey gives it to him though. I'd much rather have Aucoin at 4 then Souray for whatever his agent will ask (likely 6 to 6.5) and back when Aucoin signed at 4, I was glad Gainey pulled out of that race (word is he was at 3.5 tops).

Let others overpay for players while we play with depth. We have some decent players in Emelin, O'Byrne, Valatenko, Fischer and Carle in the system who could fill in eventually; not to mention trade possibilities, or other UFAs.

Sure, losing Souray would be a pain but signing him at 6M+ would be agony.

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01-09-2007, 04:47 PM
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I love Markov, I really do, and he is a better defenseman then Souray... but what Souray brings to the team you can't replace. No one in the East brings what he does to the table, except maybe Chara. The highlights make him look far worse in his own zone then he really is; we ***** and moan about how he and Rivet always make mistakes, but the fact is that Souray and Rivet are always the guys out there who Carbo trusts out there against the other team's big guns. His defensive play is far better then most people think, you can't judge everything based on highlights. And honestly I don't think I've seen Souray make any huge mistakes defensivly this season, nothing notably anyway... He's had a few unlucky bounces but has been very solid in his own zone.

And that's not all he brings. Obviously, his shot. His shot is the most important part of our powerplay. Yea, Markov is a better passer, but at the end of the day, it's Souray that gives goalies and defenders nightmares, it's Souray who draws the defenders out of position. Our team lives and dies with our PP production and that's all Souray. Our PP is really, really bad most of the time; we can't get it into the zone, we get beat to the puck, we have difficulty setting it up... but because we have Souray, all we need is 20 seconds in their zone to get a quality offensive chance. He's equally valuable on the PK, doing a better job clearing the crease and getting the puck out then anyone else on our team.

And on TOP of that, you've got the nastiness factor. Markov has no mean-streak at all and no physical presence to speak of; Souray is intimidating out there, he hacks and slashes and hurts guys and makes them scared to go into corners with him. Not to mention the leadeship and stability he brings to the locker room! Markov is a great player but he's an introverted recluse, no way he could ever bring the same heart and leadership to that locker room.

IMO Souray is the guy we need to re-sign. If we don't have Souray, we're not in the playoffs right now. If we lose Souray, all the progress we've made this year is down the drain. KEEP SOURAY!

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01-09-2007, 04:55 PM
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No offense TheHoser, but Markov is significantly more valuable then Souray and as well as being a few notches above as a defensemen. We don't know if the team can win without Souray(actually, it's been proven they can) while the team has not been able to perform without Markov. Markov doesn't bring any less physicality then guys like Zubov, Lidstrom or Kaberle, so I don't see that as a factor at all. Souray has a great shot, but a guy like McCabe wouldn't do a lesser job on a PP that has specialists like Markov and Kovalev.

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01-09-2007, 05:19 PM
  #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyblaze View Post
Sure, losing Souray would be a pain but signing him at 6M+ would be agony.
Agree 100%. Like I said earlier, I love having the guy in a Habs jersey, but if it gets to a bidding war and the price upwards of 6mil, I'd rather see him leave.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
"GMs have learned a lesson"... well, that'd be about a first ever. I've heard that rational expectation (and expressed it myself) often enough only to be disappointed that I really can't believe it will ever happen. The cap is going up a bit. They expect it to go up a bit every year. They want to change the CBA so that they can trade cap space. Trust me, they haven't *Really* learned a lesson. Or at least, not enough of them have that it will stop the insanity in any meaningful way. There will be more "if Kubina and Jovo got $5M/$7M then surely Souray deserves $6M" than the reverse. Alas. (Always assuming he keeps up his current pace reasonably well, that is... 25 goals and 70 points on D will drop a few jaws and open a few wallets).

So there... now that I've thrown down the gauntlet to the NHL GMs, please feel free to go ahead and prove me wrong again... this time by acting rationally when I expect irrationality. Just for a change.
Agree 100% with this as well, although I feel really bad having to agree with this one. We all thought the cap would curb GM spendings, but unfortunately it appears this won't be the case. GM's are just as dumb, and just as willing to overpay for FA as they were pre-cap. McCabe, Kubina, Jovo, Savard etc...all got rediculous contracts, and I have a feeling Souray is going to get something disgusting by easily arguing that a precedent was set. I just hope Gainey has the foresight to walk away when things get too high. If keeps up with the D leaders in points I think the only thing I think thay may curb interest/price is the injury fear.

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Old
01-09-2007, 09:47 PM
  #25
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Souray and Markov must be signed at all costs.

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