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How to (properly) rebuild the sabres....

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01-23-2004, 09:30 PM
  #1
TehDoak
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How to (properly) rebuild the sabres....

#1. Cut the cord THIS season. Buffalo has the payroll and the talent to be a playoff team, IMHO. If they aren't within 5 points of a playoff spot come the deadline, Buffalo HAS to start full scale rebuilding. Satan, Zhitnik, Brown, Biron, and Delmore ALL need to go. Buffalo BIGGEST need will be to rebuild their blueline:

Expected Return:
Zhitnik- 2nd Tier Prospect, 3rd/4th round draft pick
Satan- 1st round pick, overpaid veteran player
Brown- 2nd round pick/2nd tier prosect
Biron- Not much....maybe a 3rd line forward
Delmore- Future Considerations

All that salary cutting reduces the salary to around 24 million (maybe less), probably close to 27 million depending on the player they get back for Satan.

#2. Get rid of Ruff and Regier. Neither has proved that they can win without a MVP goalie on the roster. Ruff is a good coach, but the players just aren't responding. Regier knows how to get good value for his assets, but doesn't know how to build a team.

#3. IF there is a season next year, keep the young core, let the players develop under their new head coach and GM. Bring Vanek up to the NHL level, and let Noronen and Miller split goalie time until one emerges as a true #1. Bring in some (cheap) character veteran guys to help the team grow and teach the young players how to play the game every night.

#4. I would say after the salary purge, Buffalo could realisticly be a playoff team in 2006. In the 2006 offseason, with all the money saved from purging now, use on bringing in a veteran superstar, someone who could elevate Buffalo's team to the next level, who is a good character guy and a good leader.

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01-23-2004, 10:43 PM
  #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdoak
Expected Return:
Zhitnik- 2nd Tier Prospect, 3rd/4th round draft pick
Satan- 1st round pick, overpaid veteran player
Brown- 2nd round pick/2nd tier prosect
Biron- Not much....maybe a 3rd line forward
Delmore- Future Considerations
You seem to be the only one on these boards that has a realistic idea of what we'd get in return for these guys. Personally I'd rather see Zhitnik go for someone like Colaiacovo at the deadline, even if it means we have to throw in a prospect/pick.

Satan + a prospect (Janik?) can go to NJ for Colin White + Michael Rupp.

Brown can go to STL for Bryce Salvador or CGY for Denis Gauthier.

Biron can go to anywhere that'd take him, but I have a feeling we'd need to take some salary back. We'll say Chicago for Korolev (anyone know when his contract is up?)

Delmore can go anywhere for a swap of 8th rounders with a team like CLB or like JimBob said in another thread - some lugnut defenseman that can help Rochester but has a two-way contract.

We have an amazing core of young players, and a few more on the way, but like everyone's said, we have NO DEFENSE. Kalinin's emergence has been nice, but if by some chance the proposed trades above went through, we'd have an 04-05 blueline of :

Kalinin - White
Salvador/Gauthier - McKee
Tallinder - Fitzpatrick

Then we use our first to draft someone like Cam Barker, and I'd say we're well on our way to having an impressive defensive corps.

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01-23-2004, 10:50 PM
  #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdoak
Satan- 1st round pick, overpaid veteran player
Satan for the Canucks 2005 1st round pick and Brad May? I'd be all over that like a fat kid on a smartie!

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01-23-2004, 11:15 PM
  #4
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Now is not the time to trade Miroslav Satan. He's too good to be mired in his slump forever. What needs to be done is a rebuilding of the blueline, by moving some of the more redundant guys up front.

If I were Darcy Regier, well, I'd fire myself and hire David Conte.

That being infeasible, I'd simply fire the coaching staff. In the off-season, I would try to land Eric Brewer. I think it could be done with a package around Biron and Tallinder (Edmonton will need a starter come the off-season, and it isn't going to be Conklin), maybe adding Ales Kotalik or Maxim Afinogenov to sweeten the pot, and accepting a salary like Moreau back. I'd let Zhitnik walk/deal him for a pick at the deadline. McKee and Kalinin are really the only two guys who I would bring back on defense. Two other guys I would go after who I think would be available are Brian Pothier and Nicklas Havelid (get one, not both; they're basically the same player). I'd try to pull Gauthier out of Calgary for a pick; and draft a defenceman with my first rounder (looks like it'll be Cam Barker at this point). Ideally, the Buffalo blueline come 2004-2005 would look something like this...

Brewer-Kalinin
McKee-Havelid
Gauthier-depth guy/Barker/whatever

I think that's a defense that will serve a Noronen/Miller tandem in net extremely well.

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01-23-2004, 11:24 PM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit

In the off-season, I would try to land Eric Brewer. I think it could be done with a package around Biron and Tallinder (Edmonton will need a starter come the off-season, and it isn't going to be Conklin), maybe adding Ales Kotalik or Maxim Afinogenov to sweeten the pot, and accepting a salary like Moreau back. .
I don't see anything happening there from an Edmonton POV. To land Brewer, Biron and Tallinder would not do it. It would have to be something more like Noronen/Miller and Kalinin, which I doubt Buffalo would do.


Moreau would not be a throw in, he just signed a 4 year, dirt cheap deal that will keep him in Edmonton for years, he brings tons of heart, grit and leadership to the team.

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01-23-2004, 11:26 PM
  #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elphy101
I don't see anything happening there from an Edmonton POV. To land Brewer, Biron and Tallinder would not do it. It would have to be something more like Noronen/Miller and Kalinin, which I doubt Buffalo would do.
Biron and Tallinder alone wouldn't do it, I agree, which is why I'd throw in one of Buffalos young scorers (Kotalik, or Afinogenov...hell, even Pyatt).

Quote:
Moreau would not be a throw in, he just signed a 4 year, dirt cheap deal that will keep him in Edmonton for years, he brings tons of heart, grit and leadership to the team.
The deal averages $1.4 million per year, and for a third-liner you can bet Lowe would move him if only to clear up salary for more scorers.

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01-23-2004, 11:43 PM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elphy101
I don't see anything happening there from an Edmonton POV. To land Brewer, Biron and Tallinder would not do it. It would have to be something more like Noronen/Miller and Kalinin, which I doubt Buffalo would do.


Moreau would not be a throw in, he just signed a 4 year, dirt cheap deal that will keep him in Edmonton for years, he brings tons of heart, grit and leadership to the team.

There would be no point in dealing Kalinin for Brewer.I think Kalinin is already better then Brewer now.Kalinin logs a ton of ice time, QB's our PP, makes great plays every game and is real solid on both ends of the ice.

I would hope for us to acquire a guy like Regehr, but it would most likely take Kalinin though.

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01-24-2004, 01:51 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
Biron and Tallinder alone wouldn't do it, I agree, which is why I'd throw in one of Buffalos young scorers (Kotalik, or Afinogenov...hell, even Pyatt)..
Edmonton already has enough unproven but quality talent. Where would Kotalik or Afinegenov fit on the Oilers roster. One left wing where behind Smyth, Torres, Moreau and Isbister. And on right wing, Dvorak, Hemsky, Pisani, Laraque, Chimera. The Oilers also have to make room for Salmolainen and Rita who are ready for a shot in the big leagues. The Oilers are missing high end talent, not the mid range 2nd line talent, they have alot of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burke's Evil Spirit
The deal averages $1.4 million per year, and for a third-liner you can bet Lowe would move him if only to clear up salary for more scorers.
Nope, Moreau would not be moved as a salary dump. There are several others that would be moved before Moreau. Management loves Moreau and he signed a below market deal to stay in Edmonton.

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01-24-2004, 01:54 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielBriere48
There would be no point in dealing Kalinin for Brewer.I think Kalinin is already better then Brewer now.Kalinin logs a ton of ice time, QB's our PP, makes great plays every game and is real solid on both ends of the ice.

I would hope for us to acquire a guy like Regehr, but it would most likely take Kalinin though.
Yep Kalinin is a stud, however so is Brewer. He is the Oilers #1 defensemen, and he is playing awesome these days. The only reason any trade talk was started around Brewer is because he really struggled out of the gate this year.

However just last week, MacT came out and said Brewer is playing like never before. He's taken his game to the next level. He is their #1 guy now.

Regehr is good but I would take Brewer over Regehr as well.

Then again, going by my avatar, I'm sure you can tell I'm probably a biased Edmonton fan.

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01-24-2004, 04:33 AM
  #10
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Where is the #1 center on this team, and when will they ever acquire one?

Right now this team has a nice #2 line.....Hecht-Briere-Dumont

Now what needs to be done is to formulate a #1 line. Satan could qualify as the #1 RW. There is no #1 center in the organization. I can't see Derek Roy taking the reins there.

Where does Derek Roy fit in, on this team? #3 center? Makes Curtis Brown the subject of trade rumors? I see no need to mess around with the #2 line unless it becomes a total flop, but those three work together quiet well.

Would Roy be the perfect #3 center?

Where does Chris Drury fit in? Could he hold down the fort on the first line till Thomas Vanek makes the Sabres on a permanent basis? Drury isn't exactly #1 line material.....more like #2 line, but we already have a #2 line. UGH!

Where does Max Afinogenov fit in? #3 line RW? Maybe Max should be #1 RW, and we move Miroslav Satan out of town. What's the deal with Taylor Pyatt? Probably too much of a wuss to ever get the #1 LW nod......should he stay on a line with Derek Roy? Or should he keep the #3 LW spot warm for the eventual arrival of Dan Paille one day in the future?

Kotalik? Where do you slot him? Sophomore slump. Tim Connolly.....waive, retire? No room for him really.

What a mess.....Roy is up here now......Bartovic is trying to get a spot.....Vanek, Paille, probably Pominville, maybe Gaustad and a few others.....What direction should they go in? Who should be on what lines?

And all the while, we are still missing a #1 center.

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01-24-2004, 08:56 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperNintendoChalmrs
Where is the #1 center on this team, and when will they ever acquire one?

Right now this team has a nice #2 line.....Hecht-Briere-Dumont

Now what needs to be done is to formulate a #1 line. Satan could qualify as the #1 RW. There is no #1 center in the organization. I can't see Derek Roy taking the reins there.

I agree with you 100% about Buffalo lacking a #1 center. However, Buffalo just doesn't have the resources to go out and get one. I agree that Briere is a fine #2 center, but over the long term, I think Buffalo needs to go out and get a Physical, power forward type center for the 2nd line and a true #1 center for the first line. Drury I think is ideally suited to be a LW on the 2nd line w/ a physical center. That is where he had his best years (with Forserberg) and I think his creativity would do wonders there. Gaustaud COULD fill that role, but I think he's more of a good 3rd line center.

My 'ideal' 2006-2007 lineup:

Vanek-#1 center -Kotalik/Physical RWer who can chip in 20 goals
Drury-Arnott(or someone in that mold)-Dumont/Afingenov (whoever is better)
Hecht-Gaustaud-Roy
Peters-Mair-Veteran Grinder

Defense:
#1 D-man-Kalinin
McKee-Physical D-man
Tallinder-Fitzpatrick/journeyman D-man.
Those lines leave either Dumont or Afinogenov, Briere, Pyatt, Brown, Satan all as chips that could be used to bring in some of the missing pieces (esp on D)

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01-24-2004, 11:27 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lecherous
You seem to be the only one on these boards that has a realistic idea of what we'd get in return for these guys.

Satan + a prospect (Janik?) can go to NJ for Colin White + Michael Rupp.
Yourself included. :p

I don't think Regier could sniff Colin White with Satan.

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01-24-2004, 11:34 AM
  #13
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Resources or not, the team needs a legit #1 center. I think it could alleviate a lot of the drought in scoring we see. I'd still consider shipping Satan out of town in making such a move, and maybe that would be an economic necessity.

Still.....I could see a new line

LW Drury - C New #1 - RW Afinogenov

Hecht - Briere - Dumont


Quote:
Originally Posted by mdoak
I agree with you 100% about Buffalo lacking a #1 center. However, Buffalo just doesn't have the resources to go out and get one. I agree that Briere is a fine #2 center, but over the long term, I think Buffalo needs to go out and get a Physical, power forward type center for the 2nd line and a true #1 center for the first line. Drury I think is ideally suited to be a LW on the 2nd line w/ a physical center. That is where he had his best years (with Forserberg) and I think his creativity would do wonders there. Gaustaud COULD fill that role, but I think he's more of a good 3rd line center.

My 'ideal' 2006-2007 lineup:

Vanek-#1 center -Kotalik/Physical RWer who can chip in 20 goals
Drury-Arnott(or someone in that mold)-Dumont/Afingenov (whoever is better)
Hecht-Gaustaud-Roy
Peters-Mair-Veteran Grinder

Defense:
#1 D-man-Kalinin
McKee-Physical D-man
Tallinder-Fitzpatrick/journeyman D-man.
Those lines leave either Dumont or Afinogenov, Briere, Pyatt, Brown, Satan all as chips that could be used to bring in some of the missing pieces (esp on D)

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01-24-2004, 11:51 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperNintendoChalmrs
Resources or not, the team needs a legit #1 center. I think it could alleviate a lot of the drought in scoring we see. I'd still consider shipping Satan out of town in making such a move, and maybe that would be an economic necessity.

Still.....I could see a new line

LW Drury - C New #1 - RW Afinogenov

Hecht - Briere - Dumont
I agree that the team desperately needs a #1 pivot, but Satan wouldn't fetch it. It would have to be Drury and I'd reluctantly offer him up with a prospect to nab it. Briere is an excellent #2 (as is Chris).

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01-24-2004, 11:57 AM
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I'm not saying Satan would give the team a #1 center based on a trade. May have to delve into FA to find one. However, the removal of Satan off the payroll could then grant the team to monetarily take a shot at a #1 center.

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01-24-2004, 12:30 PM
  #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperNintendoChalmrs
Resources or not, the team needs a legit #1 center. I think it could alleviate a lot of the drought in scoring we see. I'd still consider shipping Satan out of town in making such a move, and maybe that would be an economic necessity.

Still.....I could see a new line

LW Drury - C New #1 - RW Afinogenov

Hecht - Briere - Dumont
I like Briere, I really do, but I really don't see him in Buffalo's long term plans. He's a great regular season performer, gritty, fast, but ultimatley, Buffalo's need for a physical presence/faceoff guy on the top 2 lines will eventually supplant Briere's spot, IMHO. I know i know, that descrption brings to mind a player of the Gratton Ilk, but someone like Jason Arnott who can anchor the 2nd line is more of my thinking. Big, Physical, good shot, fast, great at faceoffs.

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01-25-2004, 03:19 AM
  #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Takeo21
Yourself included. :p

I don't think Regier could sniff Colin White with Satan.
NJ needs goalscorers this year. I don't think this is too much of a stretch. Maybe we'd have to include a little better prospect than Janik, but everyone still forgets that Satan is a consistent 70 pt scorer for the past 5 years on a team that pretty much has no offense.

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01-25-2004, 05:30 AM
  #18
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i would get a hard hitting pysical 3 defenders. 2 puck movers and a offensive guy like our ex-prospect k. ballard. all young, prospects if needs be.

Get rid of satan and zhitnik, try to get o'niell. i certainly dont want to re-build again after this re-build. we have a good core only spoiled by Zhitnik, Satan and laziness.

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01-25-2004, 08:55 AM
  #19
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Step 1) Fire Larry Quinn, Darcy Regier, Don Luce, and Larry Carriere.

Step 2) Hire some people like David Conte, Jim Nill, Marshall Johnston, and Neil Smith to replace them.

Step 3) Back away and let them do their job.

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01-25-2004, 09:04 AM
  #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Bob
Step 1) Fire Larry Quinn, Darcy Regier, Don Luce, and Larry Carriere.

Step 2) Hire some people like David Conte, Jim Nill, Marshall Johnston, and Neil Smith to replace them.

Step 3) Back away and let them do their job.
im in england and u want me to go back further!? :p

neil smith? wasnt he wanted for the leafs job? didnt he start the decay of the Rangers?

i could be wrong.

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01-25-2004, 10:48 AM
  #21
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Incidentaly, Miro Satan did play center in the AHL for the Oilers organization, and posted some impressive numbers. I think he is a player that is a lot better when he has the puck, and he has the size and skill to at least be tried at the pivot position. It beats the hell out of trading him for a prospect/draft pick that a lot of the above posters have already shipped him out for. And so what if he's overpaid this season, are any of you getting a bill in the mail that pays Miro's salary? Give the guy someone to play with.

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01-25-2004, 12:18 PM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SabresRule
im in england and u want me to go back further!? :p

neil smith? wasnt he wanted for the leafs job? didnt he start the decay of the Rangers?

i could be wrong.
Neil Smith was the GM when the Rangers won the Cup in 94 and then oversaw the start of their decline.

Although, if you believe him many of the big names that have been brought in have been mandates from ownership and not the GM's idea.

He said that signing Theo Fleury was something that he was against, but that ownership told him to do "or else".

Neil was the Red Wings Director of Scouting when they were putting together the core of the current team. He knows how to draft quality players and might be a good fit here.

Although, I might like it better if he were the team president and a guy like Conte or Nill were the GM.

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01-25-2004, 12:36 PM
  #23
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The person that needs to be brought is more than anyone is Scotty Bowman. Make him president of hockey operations, let him pick out the GM, the coach, and anyone else he wants. This is a Buffalonian that KNOWS hockey and could make Buffalo into a quality NHL team better than anyone else in the NHL.

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