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Old
01-09-2007, 04:25 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
It's not a question of being patience. I think the majority of fans have no problem being patient. That said, there are no signs that he's improving. If Hugh was getting better slowly but surely, that would be fine with. But he's not. Not only is he not able to keep a role in the AHL, he's hardly opening eyes in Charlotte.

Yes power forwards do take time to develop. That said, Hugh is taking an awful long time just to demonstrate that he can be an average, serviceable player let alone an NHL power forward.

It's not fair to look at all the players drafted around and after Hugh and then use that to judge him. But the fact remains that he was a reach where he was selected. The Rangers needed to get a guy in that spot who was going to play in the NHL (even if that meant a guy who's potential came with a lower ceiling).

Hugh was considered a boom or bust pick. It's no longer too soon to venture a guess as to which one he's going to be.
Pretty much how I view it.

I'm not expecting him to necessarily be the finished product, but I also don't expect him to be the same exact player he was almost 4 years ago either.

Part of developing means actually developing something.

Obviously we can't trade him because he's not worth much so you have no choice but to let him play in the ECHL. To me that's not even the question (and I don't know where that argument comes from), rather that's it's overwhelmingly likely at this point that what you have is a bust.

More time isn't going to mean jack unless he actually shows something so the issue of patience isn't even a factor. At this point it's a matter of him having to show something rather than people actually being patient.

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01-09-2007, 04:30 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by SML View Post
Hugh Jessiman DOB: 3/28/84

He will be 23 in two months. He won't be 24 until 2008.

At this point I'd borrow a poker term and say we're "pot-committed" It's cheaper to keep him because I don't think we're going to get a hell of alot back. Just wait it out. If a team was really interested, I'd listen, but to just cut him lose makes no sense to me.

My bad, I'm lucky I know what year I'm in this week.

Can't really cut him loose because it doesn't make sense. To me it's more a matter of being able to say "Yeah he's a bust".

At this point he's not going to do a 180 so he's not going to be a top 6 forward. At BEST he turns himself into a bottom 6 forward but considering where he was picked and when, that's still going to be a bust for the Rangers because you wouldn't likely trade a third line player for the 12th pick in one of the deepest drafts in the last 30 years.

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01-09-2007, 06:37 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
It's not a question of being patience. I think the majority of fans have no problem being patient. That said, there are no signs that he's improving. If Hugh was getting better slowly but surely, that would be fine with. But he's not. Not only is he not able to keep a role in the AHL, he's hardly opening eyes in Charlotte.

Yes power forwards do take time to develop. That said, Hugh is taking an awful long time just to demonstrate that he can be an average, serviceable player let alone an NHL power forward.

It's not fair to look at all the players drafted around and after Hugh and then use that to judge him. But the fact remains that he was a reach where he was selected. The Rangers needed to get a guy in that spot who was going to play in the NHL (even if that meant a guy who's potential came with a lower ceiling).

Hugh was considered a boom or bust pick. It's no longer too soon to venture a guess as to which one he's going to be.
Totally agree.

You need to be patient with those that are progressing and/or dealing with a new ceiling.

Jessiman had all last season to acclimate to the AHL. This year was the test and he has failed pretty badly. Hence his demotion. At this point he's about as much a bust lock as you can have. Love to see him turn it around....but it won't happen.

To me this is where it gets interesting in the whole development process. Who keeps progressing and who stalls or fails. Three months ago I would have thought we'd see good progress from Dubinsky, Moore, and Korpikoski. They are doing okay, but the standouts are Callahan and Byers. Fascinating from a development stand point.

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01-09-2007, 07:06 PM
  #54
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Exactly why it's so interesting.

You get guys who you think will make it who don't and guys who you don't think stand a chance make it.

Some guys look like they'll make it, than look like they don't, than look like they will.Some guys have the reverse happen.

Some guys reinvent themselves, some just can't. Some get out of the gate faster but then get passed, others start slow and then explode.

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01-09-2007, 11:20 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
It's not a question of being patience. I think the majority of fans have no problem being patient. That said, there are no signs that he's improving. If Hugh was getting better slowly but surely, that would be fine with. But he's not. Not only is he not able to keep a role in the AHL, he's hardly opening eyes in Charlotte.

Yes power forwards do take time to develop. That said, Hugh is taking an awful long time just to demonstrate that he can be an average, serviceable player let alone an NHL power forward.

It's not fair to look at all the players drafted around and after Hugh and then use that to judge him. But the fact remains that he was a reach where he was selected. The Rangers needed to get a guy in that spot who was going to play in the NHL (even if that meant a guy who's potential came with a lower ceiling).

Hugh was considered a boom or bust pick. It's no longer too soon to venture a guess as to which one he's going to be.
I absolutely agree with you and you are right. My post was more a comment on the Jessiman threads that pop up every 2 months. It is never started by a positive poster, it is always negative. I'm just saying that it does us no good to constantly beat this horse to death. I just laid it out there: we can't change it, we spent the pick, just be patient and forget about him. When I say be patient I don't me give him a chance, which is the angle I believe you are commenting on. I'm more of the economics mind... the costs are sunk, we won't get hurt by giving him a few more years so suck it up and hope for the best. I don't think the Flyers board has a Matt Zultec thread 4 times a year.

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01-09-2007, 11:45 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugerya View Post
I absolutely agree with you and you are right. My post was more a comment on the Jessiman threads that pop up every 2 months. It is never started by a positive poster, it is always negative. I'm just saying that it does us no good to constantly beat this horse to death. I just laid it out there: we can't change it, we spent the pick, just be patient and forget about him. When I say be patient I don't me give him a chance, which is the angle I believe you are commenting on. I'm more of the economics mind... the costs are sunk, we won't get hurt by giving him a few more years so suck it up and hope for the best. I don't think the Flyers board has a Matt Zultec thread 4 times a year.
Zultek was drafted by the Kings, no? But your post is spot on. Let Jessiman do his thing, if he flames out he flames out, we can't redo the pick. I'm waiting for Orr to be cut loose, so then we can stop hearing about him every thread (or two years later) .

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01-10-2007, 12:28 AM
  #57
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Point well taken.

Keep him, but forget him. It costs nothing.....and you never know.
Sather and Company should have not had their heads in their ***** and if they wanted a college prospect so bad they should of chosen Zach Parise. My God.

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01-10-2007, 07:33 AM
  #58
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He did seem like a much-improved player off the start this year, and scored in the Wolf Pack's first game. As the year progressed, though, he had trouble inspiring the coaching staff to give him significant ice time, and his development seemed to stall again. He was a healthy scratch for three straight games before the transaction that sent him to the ECHL
http://www.hartfordwolfpack.com/crawford_20070108.php

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01-10-2007, 08:56 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
that's still going to be a bust for the Rangers because you wouldn't likely trade a third line player for the 12th pick in one of the deepest drafts in the last 30 years.
ooh, feel the burn!

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01-10-2007, 09:47 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Zultek was drafted by the Kings, no? But your post is spot on. Let Jessiman do his thing, if he flames out he flames out, we can't redo the pick. I'm waiting for Orr to be cut loose, so then we can stop hearing about him every thread (or two years later) .
Jessiman is just the name attached to the pick. I think the frustration that a lot of people have (which is then projected upon Hugh) is the philosophy behind the pick.

Consider:

- That draft class was considered (and has proven to be) one of the best and deepest ever.

- With the state the Rangers were in at the time, they had to get a guy they new would play in the NHL some day.

- Hugh was a huge reach at 12.

- He was considered a boom or bust pick and that was a luxury this team really didn't have at that time. They had to get a guy who was going to play for them. Even if that player had a lower ceiling. At the time (and I hate bringing this up again), there were a lot of debate about Hugh vs. Parise. The feelings were that if both met their potential, Hugh could be the better player. But Parise was more a sure thing to make it to the NHL. The Rangers had to get a guy they knew would play at this level.

- It was an incredibly risky pick. Hugh only had one good year, playing for a decent (but not top) program in a decent league.

- It's almost 4 years later and that draft class is starting to make it's presence felt. How nice would it be to have Richards, Getzlaf, Parise or Bergeron centering Shanahan and Prucha? Or wouldn't it be nice to have Brown, Seabrook or Tambellini?

- And from a personal standpoint, I hate that we were sold a bag of goods. What do I care if Hugh was a Ranger fan growing up? Was this a PR move or a hockey move?

Like I said before, the only thing you can do is be patient. But that doesn't mean that you just say, "oh well, guess that one didn't pan out". Because there were plenty of warning signs when the pick was made.

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01-10-2007, 10:22 AM
  #61
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Hugh Jessiman is a BUST. Period.And if memory serves me correctly, wasn't this a Don Maloney "have to have" pick. Maloney loves to take power forwards high in the draft (remember Brett Lindros??) he got skewed by the media before ,during and after making that pick. He also was fawning like a school girl about Korpikoski. I will reserve judgement on that for a later date. I also remember Donny doing an interview with Stan when he was G.M of the Isles. Don was saying how he is a big proponent of "north-South" hockey and that successful teams must be able to "dig pucks out of the corners "and "bang" the front of the net. And true to his "blueprint of a "successful team" he went after Hugh while Glenn ate his ice cream. Funny how "supposedly " Sather assembles a "east west" team around JJ, all the while employing a coaching staff that preaches the north/south game. And we wonder why Renney uses terms like "lack of commaraderie" (sp)? along with lack of team play and sticking to the game plan . We are watching a 4 or 5 player team without an identity.

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01-10-2007, 12:00 PM
  #62
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For what it's worth, here's what Jessiman has done since getting to Charlotte:

Dec. 31: 0 G, 0 A, -2, 3 SH, 0 PIM

Jan. 2: 1 G, 1 A, +3, 1 SH, 6 PIM

Jan. 5: 0 G, 1 A, -1, 0 SH, 4 PIM

Jan. 6: 1 G, 0 A, +2, 5 SH, 5 PIM

Jan. 9: 1 G, 2 A, +1, 3 SH, 5 PIM

Games 5, Goals 3, Assists 4, +3, 12 SH, 20 PIM

take away that first game and its

Games 4, Goals 3, Assists 4, +5, 9 SH, 20 PIM

I like that trend, even if it's 2 rungs down from the NHL. As long as he is property of the Rangers, I'll continue hoping that he can mature and develop into an NHL player.

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01-10-2007, 12:36 PM
  #63
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You want to be more depressed? I saw the Blues/BJ's game last night, Lee Stempniak, Hugh's Center while at Dartmouth, looked really good, scored the GW shootout goal plus 2 assists, displaying some really nice skills/hands. He now has a 7 game point scoring streak.

I bring this up cause there was obvious chemistry with Hugh and in that same draft year we passed up Stempniak who i'm sure scouts mustve seen as much as Hugh. Dartmouth's coach at the time said Stempniak was the most talented player he'd ever coached.

Btw, Manny Malhotra scored a goal and was on for 18 minutes, Hitchcock put him out alot at the end of the game and in OT.

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01-10-2007, 01:05 PM
  #64
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Was Jessiman really a reach at #12?

Two mock drafts had him going at #17 to Edmonton

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hoc...19/mock_draft/

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hoc...03/mock_draft/

#20

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hoc...13/mock_draft/

Quote:
Jessiman has the potential to be a general manager's dream -- a power forward who is virtually unstoppable and will do whatever he wants at the pro level. Reminding some of Mats Sundin at at early age in terms of size, skills and even his current weaknesses, Jessiman could become a big-time point producer.

If he is able to settle down defensively and get a bit of an edge, he become one of the better power forwards of the next 10 to 15 years. Given his work ethic and attention to his coaches, he is a good bet to reach his potential.

The fact that he still has some drawbacks could push him to the back end of the first round. It is more likely that he will be selected somewhere between picks 10 to 20. Whoever gets this kid nicknamed "Huge Specimen" will be getting a player who could easily evolve into one a dynamic player
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/hoc...eens_jessiman/

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01-10-2007, 01:19 PM
  #65
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SI is the worst place to get hockey info, especially when they do mock drafts.

Ha, one of those mocks has the Oilers taking Hugh and saying he'd look good with Brad Isbister someday

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01-10-2007, 01:49 PM
  #66
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Unfortunately the difference between 12 and 17 and 12 and 20 is very significant.

Also one has to wonder if that comment about 10-20 came more from finding out the Rangers were going to take him at 12.

SI is def. not one of the more trusted sources for draft info. A more accurate picture would probably be painted by THN, Red Line or other services. I believe THN had him going at about 24.

I've said this a few times, but no one I've talked to has lead me to believe that anyone was taking Hugh before the 20's in that draft. In a way though it's almost a moot point because at the end of the day I want the Rangers to get a player, no matter where they find him.

What hurts the most is that there were guys just as big as Hugh who seemed to have not needed the "power forwards take more time" approach.

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01-10-2007, 01:50 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
SI is the worst place to get hockey info, especially when they do mock drafts.

Ha, one of those mocks has the Oilers taking Hugh and saying he'd look good with Brad Isbister someday
Personally I like seeing their predictions that Phaneuf or O'Sullivan were going to the Rangers. Kind of makes you feel ill.

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01-10-2007, 02:10 PM
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Personally I like seeing their predictions that Phaneuf or O'Sullivan were going to the Rangers. Kind of makes you feel ill.
Yeah, I left that out on purpose, I'm still trying to forget how much I wanted us to get Phaneuf

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01-10-2007, 02:12 PM
  #69
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Phaneuf and Getzlaf. Those were the two I REALLY wanted.

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01-10-2007, 03:28 PM
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If the Rangers had any shot at Phaneuf and left him on the board to take Jessiman, I would be leading the torch and pitchfork parade on this board. That was the only guy I wanted in that draft.

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01-10-2007, 03:40 PM
  #71
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Hugh Jessiman is a BUST. Period.And if memory serves me correctly, wasn't this a Don Maloney "have to have" pick. Maloney loves to take power forwards high in the draft (remember Brett Lindros??) he got skewed by the media before ,during and after making that pick. He also was fawning like a school girl about Korpikoski. I will reserve judgement on that for a later date. I also remember Donny doing an interview with Stan when he was G.M of the Isles. Don was saying how he is a big proponent of "north-South" hockey and that successful teams must be able to "dig pucks out of the corners "and "bang" the front of the net. And true to his "blueprint of a "successful team" he went after Hugh while Glenn ate his ice cream. Funny how "supposedly " Sather assembles a "east west" team around JJ, all the while employing a coaching staff that preaches the north/south game. And we wonder why Renney uses terms like "lack of commaraderie" (sp)? along with lack of team play and sticking to the game plan . We are watching a 4 or 5 player team without an identity.
You're right on Maloney. From what I remember of that draft, part of the reason for the selection was Maloney watching Jessiman in high-school and knowing Hugh's family. This is not to say personal connections are always a bad thing when it comes to scouting. If my memory serves right, Sather had similar connections to Blackburn, and that was an excellent pick. Dan's injury was not something anyone could predict. However, I remember wondering at the time whether Maloney's too close to Jessiman to have so much input in the decision. If Jessiman was a consensus choice like Blackburn, it wouldn't be an issue.

It's interesting you bring up Korpikoski. The kid seems to be progressing and well-liked. He needs 2 more years before we know which way he's going. What's bothersome about his pick are the 3 guys selected immediately after: Zajac, Wolski, Meszaros. While Korpi might turn out as well or better, these 3 are contributing in the NHL right now. I can see long threads on his selection if Korpi doesn't turn into a scoring line forward at a minimum.

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01-10-2007, 03:56 PM
  #72
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People bring up the depth of the 2003 draft as another reason why the Jessiman pick was so brutal. Didnt the great "depth" just mean that more talented players would be available in the later rounds than usual?

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01-10-2007, 04:11 PM
  #73
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It seemed like...

there was a lot of depth in the first round, meaning it would be tough to screw up a first round pick since there were so many potential NHLers in that first round, and some with very good potential. There was depth in latter rounds too, but with guys like Getzlaf, Parise and Bernier later in the first, there was a lot from which to pick. I don't think the Rangers were the only ones to get it wrong though.

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01-10-2007, 04:33 PM
  #74
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If the Rangers had any shot at Phaneuf and left him on the board to take Jessiman, I would be leading the torch and pitchfork parade on this board. That was the only guy I wanted in that draft.
One of the deepest drafts in 30 years and he was the only one you wanted?

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01-10-2007, 04:34 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
there was a lot of depth in the first round, meaning it would be tough to screw up a first round pick since there were so many potential NHLers in that first round, and some with very good potential. There was depth in latter rounds too, but with guys like Getzlaf, Parise and Bernier later in the first, there was a lot from which to pick. I don't think the Rangers were the only ones to get it wrong though.
Unfortunatly right now they kind of are.

See the numbers I posted earlier.

In time they won't be, but as a whole they're probably the only team (or at the very most two) who really didn't even out of the gate.

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