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01-09-2007, 09:52 PM
  #26
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If we promote Kostitsyn next year and trade Kovalev(during the offseason) for a decent young, inexpensive d-man, who can take Rivet place. We would have freed up enough money to give Souray and Markov both 5.5 million a year.

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01-09-2007, 09:53 PM
  #27
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Agree 100%. Like I said earlier, I love having the guy in a Habs jersey, but if it gets to a bidding war and the price upwards of 6mil, I'd rather see him leave.



Agree 100% with this as well, although I feel really bad having to agree with this one. We all thought the cap would curb GM spendings, but unfortunately it appears this won't be the case. GM's are just as dumb, and just as willing to overpay for FA as they were pre-cap. McCabe, Kubina, Jovo, Savard etc...all got rediculous contracts, and I have a feeling Souray is going to get something disgusting by easily arguing that a precedent was set. I just hope Gainey has the foresight to walk away when things get too high. If keeps up with the D leaders in points I think the only thing I think thay may curb interest/price is the injury fear.
See, the thing with the cap is that teams that spend a lot on free agents in the off season result in no depth. If some team offers 6 million for souray, they might have a power play quarter back but they just made their team much worst by having no more resources left for signing good NHL plumbers.

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01-09-2007, 09:57 PM
  #28
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Do you think it would be possible to sign markov for 3.5 M?

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01-09-2007, 11:19 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by habsrock76 View Post
Souray and Markov must be signed at all costs.
I don't understand if the Ducks can sign both Neidermeyer and Pronger, I agree with you, why can't we sign both of these guys.

Or is it that we just have to many millionaires on the team? Possibly it just may not be possible whatsoever as Souray may just want to go the west coast no matter what.

This deffinately will be interesting to say the least.

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01-10-2007, 12:13 AM
  #30
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I love Markov, I really do, and he is a better defenseman then Souray... but what Souray brings to the team you can't replace. No one in the East brings what he does to the table, except maybe Chara. The highlights make him look far worse in his own zone then he really is; we ***** and moan about how he and Rivet always make mistakes, but the fact is that Souray and Rivet are always the guys out there who Carbo trusts out there against the other team's big guns. His defensive play is far better then most people think, you can't judge everything based on highlights. And honestly I don't think I've seen Souray make any huge mistakes defensivly this season, nothing notably anyway... He's had a few unlucky bounces but has been very solid in his own zone.

And that's not all he brings. Obviously, his shot. His shot is the most important part of our powerplay. Yea, Markov is a better passer, but at the end of the day, it's Souray that gives goalies and defenders nightmares, it's Souray who draws the defenders out of position. Our team lives and dies with our PP production and that's all Souray. Our PP is really, really bad most of the time; we can't get it into the zone, we get beat to the puck, we have difficulty setting it up... but because we have Souray, all we need is 20 seconds in their zone to get a quality offensive chance. He's equally valuable on the PK, doing a better job clearing the crease and getting the puck out then anyone else on our team.

And on TOP of that, you've got the nastiness factor. Markov has no mean-streak at all and no physical presence to speak of; Souray is intimidating out there, he hacks and slashes and hurts guys and makes them scared to go into corners with him. Not to mention the leadeship and stability he brings to the locker room! Markov is a great player but he's an introverted recluse, no way he could ever bring the same heart and leadership to that locker room.

IMO Souray is the guy we need to re-sign. If we don't have Souray, we're not in the playoffs right now. If we lose Souray, all the progress we've made this year is down the drain. KEEP SOURAY!
Excellent POST!!
He is our MVP along with Huet and Koivu!!
I say give him and Markov 5 million per season. I like Markov too, but I don't think he is having a great season like Souray right now.

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01-10-2007, 12:16 AM
  #31
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I'll just say that if we pass on Souray at $5 mil and give Rivet any kind of raise whatsoever from $2.5 mil, I'll be one VERY upset Habs fan.

Without Souray this year, we're out of the top 8, PERIOD.

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01-10-2007, 12:27 AM
  #32
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I'd give Markov whatever he wants...around 6M$ at most. And then wait to see what Souray and Rivet want.

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01-10-2007, 01:36 PM
  #33
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Hopefully they're discussing the new 5-year $30M contract offer that the Habs just made to him.
While I think nobody in professional sports should make more than $1 million, I don't think he's worth a penny over $4 million!!!!
If he wants to sign in Montreal for 3yr/12million....I would go for it, if he wants more....then forget about him. Markov needs to be paid something as well and Souray is not worth losing Markov and disruppting the chemistry of the whole team just to pay him $5-6 million a year....totally not worth it.

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01-10-2007, 01:39 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Westcoasthabsfan View Post
6 mil per? Thats a little steep for strictly an offensive defenceman
I agree

But like i always say when this comes up : If Kubina got 5 million then........

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01-10-2007, 01:41 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Rather Gingerly 1 View Post
If we promote Kostitsyn next year and trade Kovalev(during the offseason) for a decent young, inexpensive d-man, who can take Rivet place. We would have freed up enough money to give Souray and Markov both 5.5 million a year.
Kovalev will stay. We should look to get rid of samsonov,Rivet, Niniimaa, Bonk or Johnson to make cap space. Weve shot ourselves in the foot with the Bouillon signing though...

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01-10-2007, 01:47 PM
  #36
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Did anybody actually listen to the radio show ?
What did his agent say ?

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01-10-2007, 01:49 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Rather Gingerly 1 View Post
If we promote Kostitsyn next year and trade Kovalev(during the offseason) for a decent young, inexpensive d-man, who can take Rivet place. We would have freed up enough money to give Souray and Markov both 5.5 million a year.
I think that when they signed Kovalev, it was knowing that he was theirs until year 4. He wouldn't be tradeable. I don't think signing a guy you know you'll have to keep no matter what, is a great situation, but it's Montreal's reality until more agents start looking at the city. They wouldn't have Samsonov unless 3 or 4 other guys said no.

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01-10-2007, 01:56 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by longliverocket View Post
I don't understand if the Ducks can sign both Neidermeyer and Pronger, I agree with you, why can't we sign both of these guys.

Or is it that we just have to many millionaires on the team? Possibly it just may not be possible whatsoever as Souray may just want to go the west coast no matter what.

This deffinately will be interesting to say the least.
If you have about 15M tied up in 2 guys on D, the other 4 would have to average 1m or less. Montreal has mid range guys like Dandenault,Rivet and Bouillon so they're pretty well out of the 7M player sweepstakes.


I don't think Souray has decided what he wants to do yet. Everything we've heard, I like Mtl, I like the team, I'd like to be closer to my daughter, I'd like to test the market, it's all true. He just hasn't decided which fact will make the decision for him. Choosing Mtl would have an influence on Mtl as a destination, I'd think/ Or at least I'd hope.

I wonder how each player, 79&44, would react to a 4 yr. 18M offer, right now ?

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01-10-2007, 01:57 PM
  #39
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Did anybody actually listen to the radio show ?
What did his agent say ?

they called, he didnt answer, they will try again tommorow.

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01-10-2007, 02:08 PM
  #40
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they called, he didnt answer, they will try again tommorow.
Another episode in sports broadcasting professionalism from TEAM 990 !!


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01-10-2007, 02:15 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by TheHoser View Post
I love Markov, I really do, and he is a better defenseman then Souray... but what Souray brings to the team you can't replace. No one in the East brings what he does to the table, except maybe Chara. The highlights make him look far worse in his own zone then he really is; we ***** and moan about how he and Rivet always make mistakes, but the fact is that Souray and Rivet are always the guys out there who Carbo trusts out there against the other team's big guns. His defensive play is far better then most people think, you can't judge everything based on highlights. And honestly I don't think I've seen Souray make any huge mistakes defensivly this season, nothing notably anyway... He's had a few unlucky bounces but has been very solid in his own zone.

And that's not all he brings. Obviously, his shot. His shot is the most important part of our powerplay. Yea, Markov is a better passer, but at the end of the day, it's Souray that gives goalies and defenders nightmares, it's Souray who draws the defenders out of position. Our team lives and dies with our PP production and that's all Souray. Our PP is really, really bad most of the time; we can't get it into the zone, we get beat to the puck, we have difficulty setting it up... but because we have Souray, all we need is 20 seconds in their zone to get a quality offensive chance. He's equally valuable on the PK, doing a better job clearing the crease and getting the puck out then anyone else on our team.

And on TOP of that, you've got the nastiness factor. Markov has no mean-streak at all and no physical presence to speak of; Souray is intimidating out there, he hacks and slashes and hurts guys and makes them scared to go into corners with him. Not to mention the leadeship and stability he brings to the locker room! Markov is a great player but he's an introverted recluse, no way he could ever bring the same heart and leadership to that locker room.

IMO Souray is the guy we need to re-sign. If we don't have Souray, we're not in the playoffs right now. If we lose Souray, all the progress we've made this year is down the drain. KEEP SOURAY!

Agreed...

Souray's shot is worth whatever he wants. I really hope we keep him. Great "team guy" as well. Sends a positive message to the team. Play exceptional be rewarded.

Except for the allusions to Markov being a softy, I like Markov he's no fun for the opposition in the corners either. Underestimated leader too... Leads by example.

Need Both. In a dream world with no cap and the Habs having Yankee like resources...

4 years each
4.75 per for Markov
5.25 per for Souray


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01-10-2007, 02:24 PM
  #42
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I'm thinking the agent for each player already has a ball park figure in mind since it would be reasonable for them to expect some kind of preliminary offer from the team sometime after January 1st and before the trade deadline. The players, as clients, would have to know that amount, so I'm not sure if they would accept a sudden $18 million over 4 years offer . That's roughly Kaberle money. Is it enough? I wouldn't be surprised if Souray's nomination to the starting lineup at the All Star game just increased the price, which means the same for Markov. Using comparables, the $6 millon figure may not be that far off. Not saying Souray is worth it though...


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01-10-2007, 02:27 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by longliverocket View Post
I don't understand if the Ducks can sign both Neidermeyer and Pronger, I agree with you, why can't we sign both of these guys.

Or is it that we just have to many millionaires on the team? Possibly it just may not be possible whatsoever as Souray may just want to go the west coast no matter what.

This deffinately will be interesting to say the least.
Pronger and Niedermeyer. If we had Pronger and Niedermeyer we wouldn't need to spend so much on the rest of the team.

Pronger and Nieds are worth 14 million.

Markov and Souray are not.

If we give Markov + Souray more than 9,5 million we're gonna be screwed.

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01-10-2007, 02:47 PM
  #44
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I'm thinking the agent for each player already has a ball park figure in mind since it would be reasonable for them to expect some kind of preliminary offer from the team sometime after January 1st and before the trade deadline. The players, as clients, would have to know that amount, so I'm not sure if they would accept a sudden $18 million over 4 years offer . That's roughly Kaberle money. Is it enough? I wouldn't be surprised if Souray's nomination to the starting lineup at the All Star game just increased the price, which means the same for Markov. Using comparables, the $6 millon figure may not be that far off. Not saying Souray is worth it though...
Kaberle's deal is what makes me an optimist. McCabe's is what makes me a pessimist. On one hand, if agents believe that GM's have seen some top level deals tie up the budget too much..... It just takes 1 though, so I don't believe we're going to see a market correction.

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01-10-2007, 02:58 PM
  #45
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Kaberle's deal is what makes me an optimist. McCabe's is what makes me a pessimist. On one hand, if agents believe that GM's have seen some top level deals tie up the budget too much..... It just takes 1 though, so I don't believe we're going to see a market correction.
For every Lowe and Gainey there are two Barnetts...

Maybe 10-12 prudent GM's around... the rest are interested in the appearence of competitiveness and big names that sell tickets... A pessimistic view, I know, but if previous UFA's are any indication...

In my view Souray qualifies as a big name that sells tickets (#2 in All Star voting). He's a flashy defenseman. The prototype. Excusing the odd lapse in his own zone. If he's not signed by Jul 1 (or the equivalent date) he's gone and for stupid money to a nice warm place with golf, girls, and grapes.

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01-10-2007, 03:08 PM
  #46
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If you have about 15M tied up in 2 guys on D, the other 4 would have to average 1m or less. Montreal has mid range guys like Dandenault,Rivet and Bouillon so they're pretty well out of the 7M player sweepstakes.


I don't think Souray has decided what he wants to do yet. Everything we've heard, I like Mtl, I like the team, I'd like to be closer to my daughter, I'd like to test the market, it's all true. He just hasn't decided which fact will make the decision for him. Choosing Mtl would have an influence on Mtl as a destination, I'd think/ Or at least I'd hope.

I wonder how each player, 79&44, would react to a 4 yr. 18M offer, right now ?

Wouldn't Robinson, Savard, Lapointe etc. have loved an offer like that back then. I think behind closed doors #'s 79 & 44 would consider that insulting and outside the room to anyone asking would say negotiations are still on-going.

Myself - I think that an offer as suggested would be more than respectable, however, improbable considering other teams would surely go to imo at least 5.5 on the open market and more with any of those two. Now if they concentrated on just one, well I wonder how far down the road Bob is thinking and if it is feasable that he tries one of his deals with one of those guys knowing one will deffinately walk at season's end and signing the other to a lucrative contract - what a toss up.

What ever happened to I want to make my living here, I love where I play and if it means taking somewhat less money . . . .well they wouldn't exactly be hurting at those dollars you're suggesting now would they.

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01-10-2007, 03:12 PM
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Pronger and Niedermeyer. If we had Pronger and Niedermeyer we wouldn't need to spend so much on the rest of the team.

Pronger and Nieds are worth 14 million.

Markov and Souray are not.

If we give Markov + Souray more than 9,5 million we're gonna be screwed.

. . . You got a point.

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01-10-2007, 03:16 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by TheHoser View Post
I love Markov, I really do, and he is a better defenseman then Souray... but what Souray brings to the team you can't replace. No one in the East brings what he does to the table, except maybe Chara. The highlights make him look far worse in his own zone then he really is; we ***** and moan about how he and Rivet always make mistakes, but the fact is that Souray and Rivet are always the guys out there who Carbo trusts out there against the other team's big guns. His defensive play is far better then most people think, you can't judge everything based on highlights. And honestly I don't think I've seen Souray make any huge mistakes defensivly this season, nothing notably anyway... He's had a few unlucky bounces but has been very solid in his own zone.

And that's not all he brings. Obviously, his shot. His shot is the most important part of our powerplay. Yea, Markov is a better passer, but at the end of the day, it's Souray that gives goalies and defenders nightmares, it's Souray who draws the defenders out of position. Our team lives and dies with our PP production and that's all Souray. Our PP is really, really bad most of the time; we can't get it into the zone, we get beat to the puck, we have difficulty setting it up... but because we have Souray, all we need is 20 seconds in their zone to get a quality offensive chance. He's equally valuable on the PK, doing a better job clearing the crease and getting the puck out then anyone else on our team.

And on TOP of that, you've got the nastiness factor. Markov has no mean-streak at all and no physical presence to speak of; Souray is intimidating out there, he hacks and slashes and hurts guys and makes them scared to go into corners with him. Not to mention the leadeship and stability he brings to the locker room! Markov is a great player but he's an introverted recluse, no way he could ever bring the same heart and leadership to that locker room.

IMO Souray is the guy we need to re-sign. If we don't have Souray, we're not in the playoffs right now. If we lose Souray, all the progress we've made this year is down the drain. KEEP SOURAY!

No offence buddy but have you watched any full games this season? NO, Sheldon hasn't been on the opposite end of any highlight reels that I can remember this year, but that doesn't mean that his defensive play has been stellar to say the least.

I'm honestly torn... He brings a ton to the the team, there's no doubt about that, but his brain cramps ala Patrice Brisebois make me cringe... Nothing more tahn 4.5 per year for him and it is feasible to keep him here at that.

Bonk is having a great year, but he'll be gone next year, Ninemaa will be either bought out or placed on waivers in hopes that someone claims him, and we could well see Michael Ryder moved before the trade deadline.

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01-10-2007, 03:17 PM
  #49
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. . . You got a point.
And that's what bothers me the most.

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01-10-2007, 05:15 PM
  #50
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in my eyes we NEED to sign both markov and souray, it might seen scary now but we need them both. could you think what the habs would be like without souray this year?

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