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01-10-2007, 04:04 PM
  #476
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Originally Posted by TomLaidlaw View Post
It needs to be an entire team attitude change. I don't think adding one player is gonna change anything. You would have thought Shanny fighting Brash would have lit a fire under these guys. Guys like Adam Hall and Jason Ward who were sitting on the bench while Shanny (the teams leading goal scorer) is fighting one of the toughest guys in the league. You would have hoped that just for a moment they would have thought to themselves " hey, maybe I should have thought of doing that, since I am a 3/4th line role player, maybe just maybe since I don't help my team on the scoresheet I can step up and defend my teammates when the occasion calls for it instead of my teams leading goal scorer having to do it". Unfortunately you can't teach toughness.
That's why you have to go out and get it....like the Isles did.

Shanny standing up for his team was great, but you don't want him to be the one doing it every night.

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01-10-2007, 04:12 PM
  #477
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That's why you have to go out and get it....like the Isles did.

Shanny standing up for his team was great, but you don't want him to be the one doing it every night.

It should never get to the point where Shanny has to fight Donald Brasheer. I could see if something happened in the heat of the moment and Shanny ended up in a tussle with him but that was an appointment fight. That should never have to happen. There should be a long line of guys ready to do that before it gets to the point where Shanny feels like he has to do something.

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01-10-2007, 04:27 PM
  #478
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Great stuff from Shanny on Sam's blog today...

http://rangers.lohudblogs.com/

Great line from Brendan Shanahan regarding Tom Renney’s outburst last night: “That’s the coach’s job. Even Secretariat’s jockey had the whip in his hand.”

Shanahan also pointed out that the difference between these Rangers and his Cup winning teams in Detroit—beyond the obvious gap in talent—is that team was never satisfied:

“I remember hearing from people after winning our first Stanley Cup that there is a chance that group would become complacent. I thought it was the complete opposite. Like a wild animal getting his first taste of meat and is forever a meat eater. I think when you develop a winning culture you have an appetite that’s never satisfied. We’re not there yet.”

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01-10-2007, 04:39 PM
  #479
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Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Great stuff from Shanny on Sam's blog today...

http://rangers.lohudblogs.com/

Great line from Brendan Shanahan regarding Tom Renney’s outburst last night: “That’s the coach’s job. Even Secretariat’s jockey had the whip in his hand.”

Shanahan also pointed out that the difference between these Rangers and his Cup winning teams in Detroit—beyond the obvious gap in talent—is that team was never satisfied:

“I remember hearing from people after winning our first Stanley Cup that there is a chance that group would become complacent. I thought it was the complete opposite. Like a wild animal getting his first taste of meat and is forever a meat eater. I think when you develop a winning culture you have an appetite that’s never satisfied. We’re not there yet.”

I don't think it is possible for me to be any happier with the total package we got with Shanny. The guy says exactly how he feels, he plays hard, plays tough. There just isn't anything to not like about Shanny.

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01-10-2007, 06:15 PM
  #480
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
This wasn't the most physical game since the washington game..Infact after the Washington game you wondered how the Rangers would survive the next 5 because of the physical teams....The Rangers went 4-1 in that period...

The Rangers played more "physical" games in the past 5 games. The difference is the Rangers were outplayed tonight in every department..

If only we didnt' have such a selfish enforcer...if only he would've dressed tonight...

This was about effort tonight....call it physical if it makes you feel better...
If only we didn't have such a selfish enforcer? What? What the heck does that mean? All I know is Witt nearly concussed Jagr and took out Betts knee...guess it doesn't concern you much!

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01-10-2007, 06:17 PM
  #481
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I agree with the above!

The Checking line is the 4th line. It has produced (Ward, Hollweg & Orr which have played most games statistically here on the 4th) 3 goals & 8 points so far all season in 43 games. They have a combined -14 in +/-. And 156 PM (lot´s of majors though)
If you also count the 3rd line (using Hossa, Betts and Hall here) as a checking line - you can see one major reason for negative results - only 10 goals & 20 points - a combined total +/- of -24 and 46 PM. These lines are not producing enough offensively to counter the goals they are letting up while being "defensive" checking lines and taking too many defensemen. PERIOD.

The team lacks consistent toughness On the 1st line + defense = nonexistant, Shanny is great, Orr is useless when actually playing on the ice + gets his ***ss kicked to often, the 3rd & 4th line are just not up to what they are paid to do. The whole team is plain and simply not consistently motivated through the locker room where the coach, team captain and key veteran players share resonsibility to have the role to fill that is not being done. Btw - I hate to say it but our hated goon Brashear scored again yesterday. How many points does Orr have all year? 0

The hungry young guys are not being played enough I think they are hungry. But according to Renney & Sather they are "NOT READY" - but the ones playing there now imo will never be ready. Young players like Immonen, Dawes, Callahan and Prucha are not treated as grownups by the coach imo. Not given a proper chance and not rewarded if they do as well or better than the older grinders...

No number 1 and number 2 d-men We have 7 signed defensemen on the team signed at 1.800.000 USD or more. Despite this - the defense is by far the worst one offensively in the league. 14 goals scored total and only 4 PP goals are terrible statistics that of course cannot produce a winning squad. With a production like this - your powerplay is not going to produce and the team will lose many close games at critcal moments - which has been the case this year.
Horrible turnovers and lack of defensive consistency are instead the trademarks that highlight and signify this defensive squad. No leader or franchise player is found here on defense on this years team. All this also refelects on this years goaltending performance - which has been inconsistent as well - but also winning some impossible games (Dallas). To have stellar goalkeeping - one needs at least average defense.

I think the squads total composition (Sather) and lack of motivation/tactics (Renney) are big contributors to the lack of consistancy this year. There is only one way to change this - and we all deep in our wretched hearts unfortunately know it will not be done. It should tho

How to solve this???
Very difficult. Move Cullen to 3rd line & Trade for a real 2nd line center will maybe temporarily solve some problems - but it will involve losing future talent within the club. A short-term UFA rental is a possibility - but there are no real good deals to be found imo. Signing Allison is an option - but what is his health status and what turbulence would he bring to the Rangers locker room that is already a bit clouded? Finding a tough forward that can skate to replace Orr should be easier and should be done immediately.
To find a real 1st defenseman + another good defensive defender should imo be of highest priority. It will cost a bit - but must be done. Brewer is an option, there are several more. Everyone on the Rangers blueline is expendable now imo, add some grinder, a high draft pick and some minor league talent to acquire a franchise blueliner (UFA or signed player) and a better defensive player as well before the deadline! PLEASE!!!

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01-10-2007, 06:18 PM
  #482
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I'm close to giving up on Prucha after last night. It's bad enough that this "offensively gifted and creative" forward does nothing creative night after night but when he starts adding stupidity to his game I question why he needs to even be here.

And to think that there were a couple of idiots in this forum last year who wouldn't have traded him even up for Crosby, not that there was any way it was going to happen.

Two of the goals against Lundqvist last night probably had him wanting to go spear some of his own players for their absolutely inept play. Michelletti nailed it when he said that too many Rangers just wave at the puck with their sticks when it is anywhere near the crease.

Some of you non-stop post about lack of toughness people will have to at some time get through your heads two things.
  1. Toughness isn't fighting.
  2. You can't make soft players play tough. All you can ask from them is to once in a while place their body between the opposition and the net they are defending.

In response...to your final 2 posts...

1. No...but fighting is toughness...or at least an aspect of it. The team doesn't seem to do anything else tough or physical...or even engage itself physically in the game. Not much intensity, not much emotion, not sticking up for each other, not finishing checks, not clearing out the front of the net, not intimidating...

2. No...but you can get rid of soft players and bring in tough ones...and you never needed to construct a team of soft players in the 1st place

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01-10-2007, 06:22 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
there isn't much difference. The Rangers are a .500 team and the Isles are two games under with two game in hand. With the way the Isles have played of late, taking out the Rangers game, some may not expect those games in hand to be won and thus would then be 4 games under .500 - but of course that remains to be seen as as Shadow says, you don't know which Isles team will show up (just like the Rangers), which is a sign of .500 teams.

Personally, I think the Rangers' roster is better, if not for anything else, but for Jagr who is a difference maker. The Isles have shown a lot of guts this season and I think their coach has something to do with it. I personally am not too surprised, but also, we're only halfway through the season and some teams seem to be tapering off a bit as we get to crunch time. The end of January may show some further separation of the better teams from the bubble teams. Let's see who they will be...

I'll go ahead and disagree. I think the Rangers are more capable of hammering in some nets...and constantly outscoring their opponents...but the Isles are a much tougher, balanced, playoff style team

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01-10-2007, 06:23 PM
  #484
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Originally Posted by Melanson View Post
Toughness has made a night and day difference in the Islanders from last season to this one.

I highly recommend it
Heh...as do other opposing teams fans. This team and some of its fans don't get it. Why couldn't we sign Chara? Witt? Hill? Simon? Barnaby? Laraque? Someone tough? Nope...will pass on them...bring in the guys who haven't thrown a check in 3 years...

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01-10-2007, 06:24 PM
  #485
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Does Weekes start on Thursday? He hasn't played in a century and we did lose with Lundy in net, so isn't it Weekes start?

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01-10-2007, 06:24 PM
  #486
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Tbbb...

not sure where we disagree...

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01-10-2007, 06:24 PM
  #487
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The problem with the Isles, IMO, is just what you are saying. They were probably playing to the top of their potential before a couple of injuries (Yashin re-injuring his knee and Martinek) and now have slipped since then.

If the Isles pick up another consistent scorer to take the pressure off of Blake/Yashin I'd be pretty optimistic.

The Rangers, again IMO, need to have someone on Jagr's line to protect him like the Isles did with Simon earlier in the season playing with Yashin/Blake. He needs freedom to move like he has on the power play where he is virtually unstoppable when healthy. A rugged winger who also has some skill would really improve the Rangers.
Yes. Believe it or not...I know I'm a huge believer in balance...but tossing Shanny on a line with Jagr for a bit may work. I know one thing...after Witt went head hunting on Jags and got burned last night...Shanny woulda done something. Your classic power forward...we got him..so let's toss him with Jags and make it work

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01-10-2007, 06:28 PM
  #488
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Two of the goals against Lundqvist last night probably had him wanting to go spear some of his own players for their absolutely inept play. Michelletti nailed it when he said that too many Rangers just wave at the puck with their sticks when it is anywhere near the crease.
I got that same feeling from Henke last night, the D amongst other things wasnt clearing the bodies but more importantly pucks out of the crease. Lundqvist would have had a much better chance of stopping point shots had he been able to see them, Witts goal was a perfect example of that. He almost got it, but almost doesnt count. With the team defense on this team its like one step foward 2 steps back, just when you think everyone is on the same page, there is a puck in the back of the Rangers net.

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01-10-2007, 06:36 PM
  #489
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What will ever be the last straw with this D?

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01-10-2007, 07:04 PM
  #490
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Just think if we had Witt and Hill on this team...what a difference it'd make

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01-10-2007, 09:37 PM
  #491
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Witt was a guy I've really wanted on this team for a while.

Asset management, now that last year's over achieving has worn out the reality has kicked in about just how mediocre this group is, how much it is making and how so many are locked into multi-year deals.

Last year that would've been a 10 page debate as the "love" was being felt.

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01-10-2007, 10:23 PM
  #492
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Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue View Post
If only we didn't have such a selfish enforcer? What? What the heck does that mean? All I know is Witt nearly concussed Jagr and took out Betts knee...guess it doesn't concern you much!
of course that's concern but if NOTHING and NOBODY is going to prevent Witt or any other player from going after Rangers players....

To say "guess it doesn't concern you much" means you haven't listened or paid attention ot anything i've posted..

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01-10-2007, 10:27 PM
  #493
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of course that's concern but if NOTHING and NOBODY is going to prevent Witt or any other player from going after Rangers players....

To say "guess it doesn't concern you much" means you haven't listened or paid attention ot anything i've posted..
No it doesn't. You know why? You'd rather see Immonen play than Orr? You know what that means. You don't want someone sticking up for Jagr and smashing Witt...or it means you want Shanahan, one of the team's stars, doing so. Or...as I've pointed out a number of other times before...you must not understand something about the game (and I understand that you do understand it but somethings wrong). For some strange reason...something makes you believe that you physically have to prevent Witt from taking a run. Unless you are gonna tie him up or hold him back...nothing prevents it. But once it happens...maybe if someone gave him a beating...it could stop it. Or just maybe if we had a tougher team that could throw some runs of its owns and big hits of its owns...things would even out.

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01-10-2007, 11:08 PM
  #494
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Originally Posted by True Blue Bleed Blue View Post
No it doesn't. You know why? You'd rather see Immonen play than Orr? You know what that means. You don't want someone sticking up for Jagr and smashing Witt...or it means you want Shanahan, one of the team's stars, doing so. Or...as I've pointed out a number of other times before...you must not understand something about the game (and I understand that you do understand it but somethings wrong). For some strange reason...something makes you believe that you physically have to prevent Witt from taking a run. Unless you are gonna tie him up or hold him back...nothing prevents it. But once it happens...maybe if someone gave him a beating...it could stop it. Or just maybe if we had a tougher team that could throw some runs of its owns and big hits of its owns...things would even out.
Exactly, we should have ran Yashin after Witt was runing our guy. We need toughness and we are SOFT. Thats why I am in favor of Orr playing. he isnt a great player, no but he certainly has guts, plays hard and he sticks up for teammates. We need someone like Barnaby who can play physical. The Islanders just manhandled us and dictated the game with their physical play. It was embarassing and hard to watch, I am dissapointed with this team and sometimes I feel that I give a s**t more than some of the players we have.

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01-10-2007, 11:14 PM
  #495
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Exactly, we should have ran Yashin after Witt was runing our guy. We need toughness and we are SOFT. Thats why I am in favor of Orr playing. he isnt a great player, no but he certainly has guts, plays hard and he sticks up for teammates. We need someone like Barnaby who can play physical. The Islanders just manhandled us and dictated the game with their physical play. It was embarassing and hard to watch, I am dissapointed with this team and sometimes I feel that I give a s**t more than some of the players we have.
BTW...some of the examples being brought up here are kind of ridiculous. I heard McCarty earlier, now Barnaby, Gary Roberts at one point...do people not realize that these guys are way past their prime? All Barney can do now in a fight is hold on til the very end....and hope to sneak in a few. He's not even too good of a player anymore.

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01-10-2007, 11:17 PM
  #496
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Originally Posted by Edge View Post
Witt was a guy I've really wanted on this team for a while.

Asset management, now that last year's over achieving has worn out the reality has kicked in about just how mediocre this group is, how much it is making and how so many are locked into multi-year deals.

Last year that would've been a 10 page debate as the "love" was being felt.
and what about the trade for vishnevski, we could have offered more than the thrashers where is the main piece of the deal??? was waived and now with the Hawks.

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01-11-2007, 11:57 AM
  #497
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BTW...some of the examples being brought up here are kind of ridiculous. I heard McCarty earlier, now Barnaby, Gary Roberts at one point...do people not realize that these guys are way past their prime? All Barney can do now in a fight is hold on til the very end....and hope to sneak in a few. He's not even too good of a player anymore.
You brought up Dale Purinton and Martin (think thats his first name) Grenier earlier. You have no room to talk. I won't call you out here, but I told you last night what I thought of you talking about non local players, unless you're just talking about their fighting only, which I know you see videos of.

Oh, and who mentioned Barnaby first? You did. http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=7...&postcount=484

You post that we should have signed Barnaby, then loss than 5 hours later, you're bashing a poster for mentioning him. Which one is it?


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01-11-2007, 07:33 PM
  #498
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No it doesn't. You know why? You'd rather see Immonen play than Orr? You know what that means. You don't want someone sticking up for Jagr and smashing Witt...or it means you want Shanahan, one of the team's stars, doing so. Or...as I've pointed out a number of other times before...you must not understand something about the game (and I understand that you do understand it but somethings wrong). For some strange reason...something makes you believe that you physically have to prevent Witt from taking a run. Unless you are gonna tie him up or hold him back...nothing prevents it. But once it happens...maybe if someone gave him a beating...it could stop it. Or just maybe if we had a tougher team that could throw some runs of its owns and big hits of its owns...things would even out.
I'd rather see a lot of guys play over orr...you say i'm wrong about immonen yet can't even respond with ANY of my old posts about him..Oh but faceoffs and puck possesion isn't important right?

Guys like Witt are not going to care if our guys are running the islanders...that's the way they play...sorry to be the guy to break the news to you...

your maybes and this could happen responses are nothing of substance..(what a surprise)


i'm done with you...your a waste of time...

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01-12-2007, 12:18 AM
  #499
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You brought up Dale Purinton and Martin (think thats his first name) Grenier earlier. You have no room to talk. I won't call you out here, but I told you last night what I thought of you talking about non local players, unless you're just talking about their fighting only, which I know you see videos of.

Oh, and who mentioned Barnaby first? You did. http://hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=7...&postcount=484

You post that we should have signed Barnaby, then loss than 5 hours later, you're bashing a poster for mentioning him. Which one is it?
Sorry I couldn't respond to this earlier...busy all day. I did bring up Purinton and Grenier...and I still feel their better than some other dmen being used. Why? Because their some of the best in the business at what they do. I was talking fighting purely...and there is no question that Grenier and Dale can go with just about anyone and win. Not sure what you mean with the local players...anyway....as far as Barnaby goes...

I guess I did bring him up...and I always have liked him...but for some reason it just struck me last night. He never wins fights anymore...he barely even plays anymore...and his playmaking ability is not nearly where it used to be.

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01-12-2007, 12:21 AM
  #500
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
I'd rather see a lot of guys play over orr...you say i'm wrong about immonen yet can't even respond with ANY of my old posts about him..Oh but faceoffs and puck possesion isn't important right?

Guys like Witt are not going to care if our guys are running the islanders...that's the way they play...sorry to be the guy to break the news to you...

your maybes and this could happen responses are nothing of substance..(what a surprise)


i'm done with you...your a waste of time...
Faceoff and puck posession are very important...however this team has more important things to worry about than that.

Don't be sorry about anything....heck...I am very sorry to tell you...if he runs your guy....it's always good to run theirs. Not just let your guy get run...and walk away.

You're done with me...? Uh great. All the better. All that shows is that you've reached the end...you've finally realized that there is no sense because heck....a faceoff win or 2 (because let's be honest Jarko isn't even gonna take many more throughout the course of the game) is much less important than having a tough team or a team that sticks up for one another.

...By the way don't take that last sentence to mean that Orr makes it a tough team

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