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Alright, it's starting to get a bit nutty with the bi-polar opinions on Hank.

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Old
12-16-2013, 08:04 AM
  #26
Jabroni
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
I've never seen Lundqvist struggle with confidence as much as hes struggling with it right now. You could read his body language, even when he made stops in the shootout that he was fighting it. It's obvious he isn't pleased with how he has been playing.

The criticism thrown his way is fair for the most part. I just think there is a large part of the fanbase who is willing to give him a break considering hes carried this team on his back, being voted the team MVP for what, 6 years in a row? More?

He's really had some problems. Best thing for him is to play on another team. Sweden. Get away and compete in a different game so he can get back to basics. But while the criticism is fair, it needs to be spread around - to a lot of players, coaches and management. Just like the Giants issues are just Eli's. It goes deeper than that. It always does in team sports.
I think it was his second Dave in the shootout. He made the stop but you could tell he was not happy with himself, maybe it was his positioning, but he wasn't happy with the way he made the save.

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12-16-2013, 08:57 AM
  #27
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The fact that he's not stealing games for us precisely means he's not playing the way he's capable of. What's the issue with criticizing that? Spoiled would mean harping on Talbot or Biron for not playing like vintage Lundqvist.


Last edited by Crease: 12-16-2013 at 09:08 AM.
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Old
12-16-2013, 09:10 AM
  #28
silverfish
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Here's the thing:

With man-to-man defense, there are going to be defensive lapses. Especially with the way our team is built right now. (Young D. No Staal. Completely new system compared to what they've been playing for their careers in New York).

Last night's game is a perfect example. I'd say Calgary had anywhere from 6-7 grade A scoring chances in the game. They scored three times. I'm okay with three goals, considering. What I'm not okay with, is 6-7 grade A scoring chances. That's bull****

Here's a shot chart from last night:



21 shots on goal for the Flames last night, 9 of which came from the goal mouth, or in between the circles.

I think in turn, this is playing a huge role in shaking Hank's confidence. Here is what I posted in the PGT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
You can also tell that Hank's confidence isn't where it needs to be. I've never seen him move that much in a shootout, ever. There was one specific Calgary shooter, Hudler I think, where he faked a wrist-shot and he moved Hank A TON. Hank ended up making a left-pad save on that shooter, but still, it startled me how much he moved.
He's not relieved of all fault. He's given up soft-goals. I'm not afraid to admit when he's giving up soft goals. But as Jonathan. so greatly pointed out in this thread, there is no viable reason to be so far to one end of the spectrum on Hank. Team game.

I'd love to go back to zone D.

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12-16-2013, 12:11 PM
  #29
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you could have patrick roy in net with dominic hasek right behind him, and the 2 of them combined will have trouble stopping unscreened shot after shot in the slot with all day to pick corners. it happens 50 times a night.

rangers are playing horrific defense in front of Henrik.

but, with that said, he hasnt been his usual god-like self in net...hes just been a good goalie, not an elite goalie.

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12-16-2013, 12:14 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
you could have patrick roy in net with dominic hasek right behind him, and the 2 of them combined will have trouble stopping unscreened shot after shot in the slot with all day to pick corners. it happens 50 times a night.

rangers are playing horrific defense in front of Henrik.
what's the excuse for the shootout with no one in front of him?

He's just not his usual self right now, but I have faith he'll be back to his old self eventually

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12-16-2013, 12:21 PM
  #31
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I'm going to be that guy, and officially object to the use of the term "bi-polar" here.

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Old
12-16-2013, 12:24 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I'm going to be that guy, and officially object to the use of the term "bi-polar" here.
What's your problem with polarity? Doesn't Yukon Cornelius live near the north pole?

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12-16-2013, 12:26 PM
  #33
GordonGecko
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What's your problem with polarity? Doesn't Yukon Cornelius live near the north pole?
It's funny because most people incorrectly use the term skitzo when they mean bi-polar. Topic is actually pretty much exactly on the mark

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Old
12-16-2013, 12:27 PM
  #34
silverfish
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Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
what's the excuse for the shootout with no one in front of him?

He's just not his usual self right now, but I have faith he'll be back to his old self eventually
Oh, I don't know, maybe the fact that it's an uncontested breakaway?

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Old
12-16-2013, 12:28 PM
  #35
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I dont think theres much disparity to be honest. I think most people recognize that Lundqvist is struggling and needs to be better -- but I think most sane people would give him the benefit of the doubt after 8 stellar years that his play will improve.

I cant say the same for the rest of the team, which is why my focus is primarily on them.

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12-16-2013, 12:38 PM
  #36
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He's playing deeper in net this year. Most likely because he knows the opposing team will get more shots and deflected shots through. He needs to cut that **** out.

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12-16-2013, 12:40 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Oh, I don't know, maybe the fact that it's an uncontested breakaway?
the very fact that it needs to be explained is simply mind boggling.

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12-16-2013, 12:43 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
Oh, I don't know, maybe the fact that it's an uncontested breakaway?
Still, he should stop more than 3 out of 7. And he does, most times.

The most prudent defense (IMO) would be sample size.

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Old
12-16-2013, 12:47 PM
  #39
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People complained incessantly about the "6 goalie system" after a while. Truth be told, having point men free to make a play 60 feet away from the goal with 8 guys to shoot through was about as low risk as it gets.

Some more respect needs to be shown about the difficult transition between that and the higher quality scoring chances that this man to man defense gives up. Missed assignments, guys flying in on the rush, prime chances in the slot while our guys stick-check away. I could tolerate this if it eventually led to more offense. It hasn't.

But why do I bother asking for this sort of cognitive thinking? This is a board where a ton of posters thought AV would come in, unlock the stifled offense, and everything else would remain the same.

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12-16-2013, 12:57 PM
  #40
GordonGecko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
the very fact that it needs to be explained is simply mind boggling.
It's mind boggling that you didn't see anything different with his performance during the shootout last night versus SOs last year

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12-16-2013, 01:05 PM
  #41
vipernsx
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If Henke wasn't rapid cycling bi-polar then we'd have a more consistent opinion of him.

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12-16-2013, 01:10 PM
  #42
silverfish
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Still, he should stop more than 3 out of 7. And he does, most times.

The most prudent defense (IMO) would be sample size.
Bingo. One shootout. Also agree, Hank looked shaky. I've already stated that in this thread, and in the PGT last night.

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Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
It's mind boggling that you didn't see anything different with his performance during the shootout last night versus SOs last year
I know you quoted Inferno, but as I am part of this conversation as well, I'll point you to my post where I agree with your statement here. I'm just too lazy to quote it again.

I'll also point back to sample size, as -31- was correct to mention. I can tell you that the average age of our demographic is 50 years old, and then you choose to market our product to 50 year olds. Unfortunately, the only two people I surveyed were a 100 year old, and a newborn baby. Guess who's making 0 sales?

Terrible example, but it gets the point across. Need more information.

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Old
12-16-2013, 03:12 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
People complained incessantly about the "6 goalie system" after a while. Truth be told, having point men free to make a play 60 feet away from the goal with 8 guys to shoot through was about as low risk as it gets.

Some more respect needs to be shown about the difficult transition between that and the higher quality scoring chances that this man to man defense gives up. Missed assignments, guys flying in on the rush, prime chances in the slot while our guys stick-check away. I could tolerate this if it eventually led to more offense. It hasn't.

But why do I bother asking for this sort of cognitive thinking? This is a board where a ton of posters thought AV would come in, unlock the stifled offense, and everything else would remain the same.
This 100 %

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12-16-2013, 04:02 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by NYR2007 View Post

The team isn't playing that great in front ....

But hank isn't playing up to his usual standards ....

Hopefully something gives
Nothing else but this.

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12-16-2013, 04:20 PM
  #45
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There are zero excuses for Hank right now. He is supposed to be one of, if not the best goalie in the world and should be expected to make difficult saves and win games for his team. He's supposed to make the saves that 99.9 percent of the goalies in the world can't. He's been average at best and it's a huge reason why this team is in the position it's in.

Likewise, all of the above applies to Nash as well.

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12-16-2013, 04:20 PM
  #46
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Nothing else but this.
yep - I'm thinking the Olympic experience in this year's case may be a very good thing for all the Rangers involved

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12-16-2013, 04:26 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
The fact that he's not stealing games for us precisely means he's not playing the way he's capable of. What's the issue with criticizing that? Spoiled would mean harping on Talbot or Biron for not playing like vintage Lundqvist.
Ding ding ding

Every game I'm hearing "that wasn't on him. You can't expect a goalie to stop that"

Yes, he's not letting in a bunch of Fleury-esque goals, but he's also not making as many outstanding saves as he should. Top goalies (Rask, Miller, Lundqvist not this year) don't just make routine saves, they make saves that nobody else does. That's what Lundqvist has anyways done, and he's not doing it this year.

"You can't expect him to play good of the team in front of him is playing bad"
Yes, I can. This guy dragged a team who's leading scorer was Dubinsky into the playoffs. He's capable of much more than he's showing right now

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12-16-2013, 04:28 PM
  #48
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In before looking at Talbot's numbers and that they are better thank Hank's.

Hank has not had this kind of defense, in terms of being bad, in a long time. It is an adjustment to him. The fact he has a .909 SV% based on shot quality has been good. Last night, I cannot blame for the 3 goals scored. He did make some big saves as well. When he stops those, he is on his game. Right now, he is struggling. The team is poor in front of him. The Streak Of 2 Goals Or Less In November was Strong play and Strong Goaltending. I find we should look at the guys who are not doing their job in front of Hank. How about the win over Dallas? Vintage Hank. Too many times has the team hung him out to dry.

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12-16-2013, 05:51 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by mrjimmyg89 View Post
In before looking at Talbot's numbers and that they are better thank Hank's.

Hank has not had this kind of defense, in terms of being bad, in a long time. It is an adjustment to him. The fact he has a .909 SV% based on shot quality has been good. Last night, I cannot blame for the 3 goals scored. He did make some big saves as well. When he stops those, he is on his game. Right now, he is struggling. The team is poor in front of him. The Streak Of 2 Goals Or Less In November was Strong play and Strong Goaltending. I find we should look at the guys who are not doing their job in front of Hank. How about the win over Dallas? Vintage Hank. Too many times has the team hung him out to dry.

Talbot shouldnt be in the same sentence as Hank to be honest. I'm so sick of hearing about Talbot and how his numbers are better. Teams tighten up when backups play so i think that is a big reason for Talbots success, and he has made some great saves too. The team seems alot more loose in front of Hank and alot more willing to leave him out to dry. Defense hasnt been good which leads to more chances which leads to more goals. Hank hasnt been his usual self but neither has the D. Maybe its time for AV to play to his teams strength. Tough defense and dirty work in the corners.

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