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Souray & markov...Max 4Mil

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Old
01-11-2007, 06:17 AM
  #26
Hackett
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Originally Posted by nyhabsfan View Post
We have 4 big contracts that come off the books next year not incuding players we want to re-sign.

Niimiinnaa
Bonk
Rivet
Johnson

That's a significant amount of money, but the KEY IMO is if we can get rid of Samasnaov's $3.5 million dollar contract next year. Right now, you can't give him away, but if he has a strong second half and playoffs, we could get rid of him and sign both Souray and Markov for around 5 million a piece.

What i am afraid of is that we only sign one (probably Markov) and then re-sign Rivet who has been horrible this year and I think is done unless he wants under $2 million to be a #5 dman.

The trade deadline will tell us more, but Souray is worth $5 million in the current market, and so is Markov. The only question is how does this fit into Mr. Gainey's plans.

That would be fantastic! But sometimes, I wonder if a team would take sammy even for free at this point ie( put him on waivers)

I really hope he has an excellent playoff or something to bring his value up. Then we have a better chance of dumping his salary to another team

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01-11-2007, 06:59 AM
  #27
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Souray is nowhere near worth 4 millions, I really hope he signs elsewhere after this season and that we can get another defenceman who can actually play defence and not just put up power play points.

Souray has 25 out of 36 of his points on the power play, I know our pp is good because of him but his 5 on 5 play is just downright terrible.

I can't wait to get rid of him...

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01-11-2007, 07:01 AM
  #28
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It's all about comparaison, Souray compares very much to McCabe and will probably looking for the same number, wich can't be good for us. Markov will be looking for Redden type of money.

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01-11-2007, 07:09 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Malakhov View Post
Souray is nowhere near worth 4 millions, I really hope he signs elsewhere after this season and that we can get another defenceman who can actually play defence and not just put up power play points.

Souray has 25 out of 36 of his points on the power play, I know our pp is good because of him but his 5 on 5 play is just downright terrible.

I can't wait to get rid of him...
You obviously haven't studied the market closely enough. He's definitly going north of 4 mil. That's a garauntee.

And his 5 on 5 play is blown way out of proportion. Its one of those slective memory issues where certain people tend to ignore the positives and only remember the negatives.

5 on 5 is a team issue. I dont know how you can peg the problem on one player. Where would we be without him this season? Scary thought.

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01-11-2007, 07:50 AM
  #30
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The reality is that in the new NHL, you need to sign players at the right price. I, for one, believe that re-signing Markov is the # 1 priority on the blue line. But, if for some outlandish reason, his agent demands the sky, then you can't re-sign him. You just can't overpay for players because with a Salary Cap, it becomes a killer.

So, the question then becomes, what should Markov's salary be? The same goes for Souray and Rivet. Personally, I would compare Markov to Kaberle, though I think Markov is a better all around d-man. Kaberle earns $4.250 million this year. Not sure how many years Kaberle signed for and the total compensation but what I think this means is that for Markov, the Habs are looking at 3 years for $12.75 million-$15.0 million (avg $4.25-$5.0 million annually). Perhaps the Habs and Markov meet in the middle and get a 3 year deal at $14 million ($4.67 annually) Personally, I would re-sign Markov to a 3 year deal in that range because I still think he is getting better.

As for Souray, he has been great offensively this year, specifically on the PP. He still gets beat 1-on-1, though not nearly as much as last year. While his offensive numbers are better than Markov's, he is not the better defenceman. I believe that this season is Souray's career year. I don't see him getting better. Unfortunately for the Habs, he is having his career year in a contract year and will expect to be paid based on his performance for this past season. And while I do hope the Habs keep him, the price has to be right. If he asks for McCabe numbers (who is earning $7.1 million this season according to NHLPA.com), then I say good riddance. Personally, I would not spend more than $4.0-$4.5 million per season for him. But, I think he will command over $5 million from some team so I expect him to leave.

As such, I expect the Habs to re-sign Rivet, and move Streit into a top 6 dman role. Rivet, who earns $2.5 million this season, won't be in line for much of a raise this off-season and I expect will stay with the Habs.

Here are some contracts I expect to come off the books after the season (expecting Souray to leave):
Aebischer David Goal Montreal Canadiens $1,900,000.00
Bonk Radek Centre Montreal Canadiens $2,394,000.00
Johnson Mike Right Wing Montreal Canadiens $1,900,000.00
Niinimaa Janne Defence Montreal Canadiens $2,508,000.00
Souray Sheldon Defence Montreal Canadiens $2,432,000.00

This totals $11.1 Million freed up. Now, some of this money will go to Markov and raises to RFAs (Higgins, Komisarek, etc). I expect some of this money will go towards another C (#2 C). They may also re-sign Johnson, who I would consider if the price is right.

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01-11-2007, 07:53 AM
  #31
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Markov will be re-signed and Souary will not. I'm fairly positive that's how it's going to shake down.

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01-11-2007, 07:56 AM
  #32
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Well, Clivmikus, [I like to pronounce your name phoenetically], it's been nice having this frank, give and take discussion with you. Nothing stimulating like a refreshing exchange of opinions.

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01-11-2007, 08:02 AM
  #33
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I can't imagine that Souray will sign for less than $5.5, but Markov could be had for $4.5.

One thing to take into consideration is the marketability of each player. Souray's got the big shot, he's popular, charasmatic and will put fans in the seats. This is going to cause a huge overpayment for him and some team is going to pay a premium overtop of his hockey ability. Unfortunately for us, we are going to be competeting with teams that want him more to draw fans than to win.

Markov, though, is underrated. A quiet guy and a relative unknown around the league. Should hopefully keep his price down, but I would definitely go $4.5 to $5 on a long term deal.

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01-11-2007, 08:04 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slip Slidin' Slim View Post
I think Gainey kind of set the bar siging our Captain and best player to a 4.75 million contract, which will probably set the stage for Souray leaving. I mean if Markov keeps his current pace he should be good for about 4.5-5.0 million max. There is no way on earth we are paying Souray over 5 million to play for us, which is what his market value will probably be. I like Souray and appreciate what he's done for us, but it's just doesn't look like it's going to happen. Good for him if some idiot GM gives him 6 mil, but it won't be Gainey.

I see Markov signing for 4.5, we lose Souray, Abby, Niinimaa, 1 of Bonk and Johnson, and go find ourselves a skilled defenceman who can move the puck and resign all our FA's. Possibly add a veteran scorer as well.
Dear God, we've set the bar way too low then. If Koivu is our max salary, then we're going to lose out on a lot of players as the cap and, conversely, high-end talent prices goes up. Markov in his prime is deifnitely worth $5m+ if he tests the market next summer. Only 2 d-men even compare to him in terms of ability as far as UFA's go, and he's younger and still has more to offer than both of them (Timmonen and Rafalski).

As much ink as Souray gets, I can't imagine him getting more money than Markov unless Markov re-signs with us before July 1 and Souray hits the open market.

As far as cheaper alternatives, there is Sami Salo, although he's having arguably a better year than Souray when healthy.

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01-11-2007, 08:04 AM
  #35
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The bright side is the competition may not be as hard as it was last year. There are a lot of teams who have already close to the cap and maxed themselves our of the competition, or have problems keeping their own dmen. And if our team keeps playing well like it did over the first half, Habs look more attractive they have appeared for a long time - less flight risk to lower tier teams.

Keeping Markov is all that really matters, but Gainey must get him resigned before the free agent season opens, because he seems to be number one choise out there next summer. If both Souray and Rivet become too expensive, there are some options for the missing second pairing dman out there. Stuart, Rafalski, Phillips, Hamrlik, Salo, Modry, Hannan, Timonen, Brewer, Sutton, Vishnevski, who else is there?

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01-11-2007, 08:14 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackett View Post
You obviously haven't studied the market closely enough. He's definitly going north of 4 mil. That's a garauntee.
He's worth it on the market because some GMs gave horrible contracts to average defencemen last season but he's not worth it on the ice and on a payroll with a salary cap.

Thus, I say goodbye Souray.

Aebischer David, Bonk Radek, Niinimaa Janne, Souray Sheldon and Mike Johnson will probably all be leaving. These players will give us enough cap room to resign our RFAs, Markov and fetch us a true second line center. That's our priorities for next season. Bring on the youth, resign our RFAs, resign Markov and acquire a second line center.

Lats, Koivu, Ryder, Samsonov, Kovalev, Kostitsyn, Perezhogin, Plekanec, Lapierre, Begin and maybe bring up a guy like Ferland to play on the 4th line and we're all set up front besides our second line center.

Latendresse Koivu Ryder
Samsonov XXX Kovalev
Perezhogin Plekanec Kostitsyn
Begin Lapierre Ferland (the french medias would be happy and it would be a good line )

Markov Komisarek
Hopefully Emelin gets a shot and bring in a second pairing defenceman.
Bouillon Dandeneault

Huet
Danis/Halak


Last edited by Malakhov: 01-11-2007 at 08:21 AM.
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Old
01-11-2007, 08:17 AM
  #37
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Just another point to add. Just because the Habs let, say Souray go, doesn't mean they have to replace him with an AHL player. There is Mark Streit, who granted is not as good but I am much more comfortable with him now. Also, they may try and get a d-man free agent. For instance, Brad Stuart is UFA this off-season. Would you rather have Souray at $6 million or Brad Stuart at $3 million (not saying this is what they will get...just putting in an example)

Also, if the Habs don't end up with Souray and don't sign a UFA d-man, and there is the $11.1 million freed up cash I mentioned in my earlier post (less $$ for Markov, RFAs), does this mean they may have enough cash to sign a Drury, Briere, Gomez, Datsyuk type of centre? (not knowing how much they would cost) And maybe that is the best way to use the money because I don't see a centre in the system ready to step into the top 2 lines for a few more years (yes, I was impressed by Grabovski but I am not comfortable handing him the #2 centre role next season - I think it will take a few years for him to grow into that role)

So, thinking out loud, would you be happy with:
OUT: Bonk, Niinimma, Aebischer, Johnson, Souray
IN: Drury (as an example)
KEEP: Markov, Rivet
MOVE INTO REG ROLE: Streit, Grabs/Lapierre, Kostitsyn

Lines (don't know why I am doing this)
Higgins-Koivu-Ryder
Samsonov-Drury-Kovalev
Perezhogin-Plekanec-Latendresse
Begin-Lapierre/Grabs-Kostitsyn

Markov-Komisarek
Bouillion-Dandenault
Streit-Rivet

Huet
Danis or Halak

Personally, I think the blueline would be a little weaker, the forwards much better and the goaltending weaker if only because Huet would have to play more

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Old
01-11-2007, 08:30 AM
  #38
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I don't mind keeping Markov at 5 million.Souray can leave if he wants anything more then 3.5 a year.Rivet same thing,2.5 or more he can go elsewhere.Rivet made too much money on his last contract,now it's time to give back

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01-11-2007, 08:39 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marksman View Post
The bright side is the competition may not be as hard as it was last year. There are a lot of teams who have already close to the cap and maxed themselves our of the competition, or have problems keeping their own dmen. And if our team keeps playing well like it did over the first half, Habs look more attractive they have appeared for a long time - less flight risk to lower tier teams.

Keeping Markov is all that really matters, but Gainey must get him resigned before the free agent season opens, because he seems to be number one choise out there next summer. If both Souray and Rivet become too expensive, there are some options for the missing second pairing dman out there. Stuart, Rafalski, Phillips, Hamrlik, Salo, Modry, Hannan, Timonen, Brewer, Sutton, Vishnevski, who else is there?
Good points.

Gainey really has to sign Markov before July 1st, just like JFJ did with Kaberle.

Souray's market value is, at the moment, close to McCabe's, because we don't really know who will have $$$ to spend on a Dman come July 1st.

However, Souray himself knows the difference between his hockey/team value and his market value. That's what he basically said when he acknowledged Gainey's priority should be signing Markov. Having a clear vision on the situation, he has everything to make the right choice. There are plus and minuses in both cases...

Staying in Montréal is the safest choice for his hockey career, and he seems to enjoy his life here.
Going to the highest bidder (who won't be Montréal if we're talking anything close to McCabe's value) is the choice anyone outside of Montréal would expect from him, and that's something to consider. It would mean more money, but also taking the risk of becoming some day that overpaid bum every team wants to get rid of...

Based on that much commented article, I could see Souray making either choice...
Which is good to know, though, is that Gainey will be fair with him, but won't overpay grossly to keep him. If we lose him, it will be because a salary cap just can't fix all the GM dumbness of this world.

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01-11-2007, 08:44 AM
  #40
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it would be nice to get both under 4 mil, but there are 29 other teams, and they are UFA, you wont be able to get either one for that price.

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01-11-2007, 09:41 AM
  #41
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The Habs would be lucky to sign Markov at $5 million. The only saving grace is the deal Kaberle signed with Toronto. Habs management can use that as an example when arguing Markov's salary. It would be nice to keep Souray but he will get
$5 mill+/season so Montreal can't afford him.

For those that say good riddance to Souray, check your heads! His point shot and offence has put us where we are in the standings. Without Souray this team would look very different. You can't just lose that kind of production and not expect a negative impact on the team.

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01-11-2007, 10:12 AM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakhov View Post
Souray has 25 out of 36 of his points on the power play, I know our pp is good because of him but his 5 on 5 play is just downright terrible.

I've never understood why 'fans' hate on Power Play points, they are still points. The Habs (and Leafs) Power Play is as good as it is because of Souray (McCabe).

Souray will well worth $4 million, and he'll get offers of $5 million/season+.

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Old
01-11-2007, 10:39 AM
  #43
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Markov is worth 5 or 5.5 mils to us. If we can sign him between 4.5 and 5 mils we're lucky... His offensive contributions go unnoticed a lot of the time. He has 28 points so far and is +6. If he finishes with 50 points and in the plus, I'd be surprised to sign him for less than 5 million $$. GMs are stupid with money, yes, but they will recognize talent. I think the "less sexy option" tag on Markov over Souray is absolutely the wrong idea - teams hire scouts for a reason.

The Souray thing's been going on for a while, but to repeat - 6 million would be too much. Any GM doing that is a fool.

But there's an awful lot of fools with other people's money out there these days, and the cap is clearly not understood by each GM in the league, when it comes to building a balanced team.

Rivet is a #6 defenseman on any decent team, he and Boullion are being overpaid this year too. I expect that to change in the off-season. Mark Streit deserves another shot on the blueline and for my money he'd be better right now than either of them. Boullion -7 in 24 games. Good thing he hasn't played 43, he might be at -12 by now! He can still skate, but seriously, adios.

Too bad the AHLers are 2-3 years away on D... I expect the summer to have us at

Markov (resigned) - Komisarek
Dandenault - Boullion
Rivet - Streit

4 of those guys can't clear their own goalmouth with a flamethrower, and Rivet is just incapable though he has size. Frankly we can look forward to still more average to mediocre defense. If we magically resign Souray, we still have average to mediocre defense but with a much better powerplay and at least one more guy who can hit.

Au secours !!

[naturally we'll see how the playoffs shuffles that deck.]

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01-11-2007, 10:41 AM
  #44
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I'm fairly certain Markov and Souray will both be habs next year. They are both important parts of this team.

The only thing that may change this, is their playoff performances.

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