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What type of team would you say we are??

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Old
12-16-2013, 12:54 PM
  #101
tinyzombies
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Watching LA play Chicago, I had a realization.

Maybe we are built to play against Chicago in the final?

Chicago are a puck possession team that uses a quick short-passing game and skating. LA dumps and grinds with size. Chicago owned them yesterday. And Chicago has made San Jose and Anaheim look slow also.

Maybe MB thinks that if we somehow get out of the East, we'll probably face Chicago and going smaller with skill and skating is better suited against them?


Last edited by tinyzombies: 12-16-2013 at 01:01 PM.
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12-16-2013, 01:08 PM
  #102
sandysan
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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Watching LA play Chicago, I had a realization.

Maybe we are built to play against Chicago in the final?

Chicago are a puck possession team that uses a quick short-passing game and skating. LA dumps and grinds with size. Chicago owned them yesterday. And Chicago has made San Jose and Anaheim look slow also.

Maybe MB thinks that if we somehow get out of the East, we'll probably face Chicago and going smaller with skill and skating is better suited against them?
I have never seen a better example of cart before the horse than this. Well done.

As a life long habs fan, if anyone things the habs represent the east, you are a far bigger optimist than I.

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12-16-2013, 01:18 PM
  #103
tinyzombies
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
I have never seen a better example of cart before the horse than this. Well done.

As a life long habs fan, if anyone things the habs represent the east, you are a far bigger optimist than I.
There must be a reason why we haven't shifted to a bigger lineup. The cart and the horse go together, you cannot rebuild your team in the middle of a season. And we are one of the top teams in the East, obviously MB has to think about possible playoff paths and build the team with that in mind.

We have a good enough team that our playoff path will be similar each year:

First round: vs 5th or 6th place team (or 7th if we have a really good year)
Second round: Pittsburgh or Boston (Chara is getting older, so we might supplant them in the next couple years, Pittsburgh isn't going anywhere---I don't see anyone else in the East that is more up and coming than us)
Third round: Boston or Pittsburgh
Finals: Chicago, San Jose, LA, Anaheim (and Chicago routinely outplays the top teams other than Anaheim)

That's it.

And Chicago shows no signs of fading any time soon, whereas San Jose isn't getting any younger, St. Louis could supplant them in this group. LA/Anaheim have young players in key positions, they're not going anywhere.

If we ever do get out of the East, we'll be playing Chicago or one of the California teams.

But as we saw, if we finish in 2nd, we can run into a team that is built around size lower in the standings. And when things tighten up in the playoffs...


Last edited by tinyzombies: 12-16-2013 at 01:37 PM.
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Old
12-16-2013, 01:37 PM
  #104
sandysan
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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
There must be a reason why we haven't shifted to a bigger lineup. The cart and the horse go together, you cannot rebuild your team in the middle of a season. And we are one of the top teams in the East, obviously MB has to think about possible playoff paths and build the team with that in mind.

We have a good enough team that our playoff path will be similar each year:

First round: vs 5th or 6th place team (or 7th if we have a really good year)
Second round: Pittsburgh or Boston (Chara is getting older, so we might supplant them in the next couple years, Pittsburgh isn't going anywhere---I don't see anyone else in the East that is more up and coming than us)
Third round: Boston or Pittsburgh
Finals: Chicago, San Jose, LA, Anaheim (and Chicago routinely outplays the top teams other than Anaheim)

That's it.

And Chicago shows no signs of fading any time soon, whereas San Jose isn't getting any younger. LA/Anaheim have young players in key positions, they're not going anywhere.

I disagree we are one of the top teams in the east, the "method" how to beat the habs in the playoffs is well known. We've gotten
" bigger" and our tough guys like prust and white can be more selective but we still have a completely, unacceptably small top 9. great goaltending might get us into the playoffs but is it sustainable ?

Why didnt we get bigger ? that's a good question. Lack of supply ? We could have gotten bigger but the question is at what cost ? we actually got smaller swapping briere for ryder ( who is no physical specimen).

and in your hypothesized matchups, i;m not convinced we aren't one of those 6,7,8 teams as opposed to getting to play them.

The playoffs are still a long way away and a lot can change but I think that the best that any team in the east can hope for it to face a team that went through 3 wars in the west.

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12-16-2013, 01:48 PM
  #105
tinyzombies
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
I disagree we are one of the top teams in the east, the "method" how to beat the habs in the playoffs is well known. We've gotten
" bigger" and our tough guys like prust and white can be more selective but we still have a completely, unacceptably small top 9. great goaltending might get us into the playoffs but is it sustainable ?

Why didnt we get bigger ? that's a good question. Lack of supply ? We could have gotten bigger but the question is at what cost ? we actually got smaller swapping briere for ryder ( who is no physical specimen).

and in your hypothesized matchups, i;m not convinced we aren't one of those 6,7,8 teams as opposed to getting to play them.

The playoffs are still a long way away and a lot can change but I think that the best that any team in the east can hope for it to face a team that went through 3 wars in the west.
BTW-I'm sick of small players too.

Chicago didn't look like themselves against Boston, but they found another gear, and Boston was badly injured.

I'm just saying, if we get bigger, it's no guarantee we will be able to handle Chicago. Chicago shreds big teams. You have to skate with them and have speed to get back in position. What we need is more GRIT in our top 6 like we had when Cole decided to play hockey that one year, but not give up our puck movement. Bourque has not been able to fill that role at all - he has zero grit. Cole isn't able to do it either, but he might roid his way back up to it one day. Maybe we can rent him back cheap at the deadline.

Chicago still seems like the team to beat because of their grit. They've proven it this year head-to-head, and they haven't even played any D yet.


Last edited by tinyzombies: 12-16-2013 at 01:59 PM.
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12-16-2013, 01:52 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Chicago didn't look like themselves against Boston, but they found another gear, and Boston was badly injured.

I'm just saying, if we get bigger, it's no guarantee we will be able to handle Chicago. Chicago shreds big teams. You have to skate with them and have speed to get back in position.

Chicago still seems like the team to beat. They've proven it this year head-to-head, and they haven't even played any D yet.
two years ago the kings looked horrible in the regular season and make the current habs look prolific in comparison. How did that work out for them ?

I an not at all convinced that chicago is the cream of the west ( they are in the discussion with lots of teams). The same way the habs can say we beat the bruins the last 4 games, if we meet them in the playoffs I'm pretty sure we come out on the short end.

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12-16-2013, 02:01 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
two years ago the kings looked horrible in the regular season and make the current habs look prolific in comparison. How did that work out for them ?
It was not the same thing at all. The Kings were a strong possession team with weak percentages. They might not have scored much, but they were dominating the play. Montreal, right now, is a weak possession team with average percentages.

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12-16-2013, 02:12 PM
  #108
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A 1st round playoff team.

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12-16-2013, 02:33 PM
  #109
tinyzombies
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Originally Posted by sandysan View Post
two years ago the kings looked horrible in the regular season and make the current habs look prolific in comparison. How did that work out for them ?

I an not at all convinced that chicago is the cream of the west ( they are in the discussion with lots of teams). The same way the habs can say we beat the bruins the last 4 games, if we meet them in the playoffs I'm pretty sure we come out on the short end.
The Kings turnaround was because of Sutter. He got Brown going. And Doughty matured suddenly. And Richards and Carter decided to start skating. And Quick suddenly became consistent. Kopitar rounded into shape after his big injury.

And King and Nolan became important players on the third line with size. Mitchell and Greene turned into studs on D. And Voynov suddenly matured and added key goals.

It was psychological. A lot of good things happened all at once. And they got an easy (for them) path to the Cup.

Vancouver was easy pickings for their puck possession size game and Luongo was average. St. Louis couldn't score and didn't get the goaltending. Phoenix couldn't score. Jersey couldn't score.

San Jose owned LA that year and the Kings might not have won the Cup if they had run into them.

Maybe we should hire Laviolette? lol


Last edited by tinyzombies: 12-16-2013 at 02:40 PM.
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Old
12-16-2013, 02:50 PM
  #110
BRAD HABSFAN
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Originally Posted by Born in 1909 View Post
#3 in the east behind the Pens and Bruins and 'fans' spew this loser garbage.

Teams will have peaks and valleys in an 82 game schedule.

Change teams, buddy.
Moment of frustration buddy. I am not perfect with all my posts and loser garbage

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12-16-2013, 02:59 PM
  #111
Le philantrope
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For me, a hockey team has 3 distinct groups of players, and all of them are a requirement to be considered a contender.

Goalies : Habs have Price and Budaj and they're both performing like no precedent. That's probably the reason why the Habs are on top of the division battling with the Bruins. That's also the reason why MB and MT won't want to go full tank mode. With goaltending like this a very average team can go far.

Defense : Habs have a solid 1st pairing, but lacks depth for #4-5-6. Subban, Markov, Emelin. Gorges is a bottom pairing shutdown type of Dman, not good enough in the offensive zone, Diaz is too soft, Bouillon is finished, Murray is too slow. Tinordi and Beaulieu aren't NHL ready. The first pairing carries this team up to the playoffs but they need help and MORE offense coming from guys like Emelin and Diaz.

Offense : This is where this team is sub par. Their centers are too small or not talented enough. Their wingers are too small. My Midget AA team was bigger. Only Galchenyuk, Gallagher, Plekanec are able to do the job consistently and even Gallagher has lost some energy lately. With their smallish size, they're banged up coming playoffs season. Adding Brière didn't help, signing DD long term didn't either.



Long story short : If it wasn't for Price and Subban / Markov, we'd be out of the playoffs. Price and Subban are defining the team right now. Sadly.

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Old
12-16-2013, 03:17 PM
  #112
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This team has no direction or identity. It always has this perverse desire to think they can take other teams crap and make gold

Briere never filled any need. Philly castoff

Bourque couldn't be driven fast enough to the Cgy airport

DD an ECHL one hit wonder on the worst team in the conference resigned long term

Bouillon was meant to be a stop gap. Ends up being overused


Therrien couldn't keep his job and lost Crosby and Malkin

The team needs to put trust in their youth and let them blossom instead of hanging onto aging veterans living off the past. Gionta and Briere are the past. DD has no long term future a winning team. Let Eller and Galch flourish

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12-16-2013, 03:24 PM
  #113
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In my opinion, we're a finesse team masquerading as a hard working grinding undersized speed team.

We don't have the tools to be either, but we're well on our way to being that finesse team at least.

Whether or not we add size and physicality will determine whether or not we're a well balanced team or just another finesse team like the Canucks.

The way I see it if we stay the course, we'll be a contender but we may lack the intangibles to actually take it to the next level, an actual cup. If you ask me, that's a damn good place to be. With young players like Gallagher, Eller, Galchenyuk, Price, Pacioretty, Subban, and others, plus more to come, its not hard to see we'll end up a team with balanced offense, defense and goaltending.

Problem is we lack that physicality to really grind out a two tough series' in succession. I have no doubt we could beat Boston, but after they wear us down if we need to face St. Louis etc, look out. In essence, I think we're on the right track to be a contender, but if we're going to be one of those special contending teams like LA, we have a ways to go in drafting and free agency.

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Old
12-16-2013, 04:18 PM
  #114
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We are a grinding team, accept it !!!

-Therrien

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12-16-2013, 04:25 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Pacioretty and Gallagher aren't natural goal scorers?
Pacioretty yes, but Gallagher.... we all love the kid he's always working hard but man he is so overrated imo. 90% of his goals are scored 2 feet from the net, come on ! A natural goal scorer will score from anywhere. In the case of Gally all his goals will come from hard work in front of the net alot more than natural goal scoring skills.

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12-16-2013, 04:27 PM
  #116
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We are a grinding team, accept it !!!

-Therrien
We're a team who's stubborn at the blue but no one understands what it means.

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12-16-2013, 04:51 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Feintastic View Post
Pacioretty yes, but Gallagher.... we all love the kid he's always working hard but man he is so overrated imo. 90% of his goals are scored 2 feet from the net, come on ! A natural goal scorer will score from anywhere. In the case of Gally all his goals will come from hard work in front of the net alot more than natural goal scoring skills.
He has a goal scorer's instincts, a goal scorer's quick release, a goal scorer's touch around the net. He also has a shoot-first mentality, with a good shot to go with it.

Is that not a natural goal scorer?

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12-16-2013, 05:08 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Smoky Thompson View Post
He has a goal scorer's instincts, a goal scorer's quick release, a goal scorer's touch around the net. He also has a shoot-first mentality, with a good shot to go with it.

Is that not a natural goal scorer?
Not really. He is like Gionta in his prime with I'd say more attitude.

He goes to the dirty areas to score, and has good offensive instincts of where he needs to be to score.

He doesn't have the natural ability of a goal scorer. While his shot and release are good, they aren't special.

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12-16-2013, 06:31 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by WakeUpNHL View Post
Spot on.
Gorges and Diaz need to go. Too small, too soft.
Need some bigger solid D man for the #4 and #5 spot.
Tinordi ready yet?
Exactly my thinking...Tinordi will be perfect as a big and tough physical 4th d-men playing with emelin when ready...but hes not there yet. Hopefully next year?

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12-16-2013, 06:41 PM
  #120
Luigi Habs
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Exactly my thinking...Tinordi will be perfect as a big and tough physical 4th d-men playing with emelin when ready...but hes not there yet. Hopefully next year?
Yes but this board is getting ridiculous with their toughness demands. You dont need to get rid of both Gorges and Diaz to replace them with tough defensemen. You still need guys who can moce the puck. Diaz is fine in the bottom pairing but I'd replace Gorges with a guy like Tinordi if he can improve.

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12-16-2013, 07:05 PM
  #121
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I got another one: This team is the Buffalo Sabres with more budget, but managed by losers. (might be exaggerated a little )

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12-16-2013, 07:17 PM
  #122
skillfully
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Yes but this board is getting ridiculous with their toughness demands. You dont need to get rid of both Gorges and Diaz to replace them with tough defensemen. You still need guys who can moce the puck. Diaz is fine in the bottom pairing but I'd replace Gorges with a guy like Tinordi if he can improve.
It isnt ridiculous when most of your d-squad is fullfilled with puck moving d-man..We can safely say subban, markov, emelin can make a good first pass in what way would it hurt to have two tough defensive defensemen instead of Diaz and Gorges?

The best d-squad you can hope for is one of a mix between puck moving skills and tough d-minded player. Best example : St-Louis Blues now thats a good defense.

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12-16-2013, 07:20 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by impudent_lowlife View Post
It's like Therrien has been in awe of the Leafs and wants the Habs to play just like them: outplayed, outshot but saved by goaltending.
You're describing Jacques Martin...

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12-16-2013, 09:39 PM
  #124
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You're describing Jacques Martin...
After that first season, Martin's teams were outshooting teams. Even 2011-2012 was heavily outshooting before the injuries caught up to them.

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12-17-2013, 01:16 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by tinyzombies View Post
Maybe we are built to play against Chicago in the final?
Quote:
Maybe MB thinks that if we somehow get out of the East, we'll probably face Chicago and going smaller with skill and skating is better suited against them?

Optimist of the Year Award.


Last edited by Runner77: 12-17-2013 at 08:08 AM.
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