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Benoit Pouliot is this year's obligatory enigma

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Old
12-17-2013, 03:47 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Rangers track record of turning career fringe players into useful everyday players is sterling.
I agree with you but we never had AV try it before as the coach. He seems to think Poo has the talent so he wants to work with him. Kreider looks like a completely different player under AV than under Torts so I'm willing to give AV the benefit of the doubt on this one.

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12-17-2013, 03:49 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Rangers track record of turning career fringe players into useful everyday players is sterling.
Pouliot is not a career fringe player.

Man, is this thread annoying me.

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Old
12-17-2013, 03:50 PM
  #53
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I wouldn't even call him an enigma tbh. At least these other guys mentioned could show up in stretches and be useful, Pou has yet to really do that.

Would love to see him manage to do something more consistently though and help the team, but I doubt it.
Pretty much. He definitely had better seasons elsewhere despite not meeting expectations, but his tenure here has been unacceptable. Then again this season almost everyone's tenure here has been unacceptable. Hard to really get too upset with the guy.

I really do not like the "roll-the-dice" reclamation project signings and trades Sather has a hankering for every year. Mostly because they rarely work out here. Brian Boyle being a most recent exception.

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12-17-2013, 03:52 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Pouliot is not a career fringe player.

Man, is this thread annoying me.
you and me both.

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Old
12-17-2013, 03:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
Rangers track record of turning career fringe players into useful everyday players is sterling.
Stralman, Prust, Boyle, I guess Zuke wasn't really a "prospect." The hit rate isn't good but I'd be curious as to how it stacks up against the rest of the league. And yeah, Benoit Pouliot was pretty soundly an NHL player, just a weird one.

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12-17-2013, 03:53 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
So what? If the player was brought in to do what he's done elsewhere, what does it matter that his innate talent has never translated? He's brought to do a job. That job is not to be a highly productive player, but produce decently for a 3rd liner. He's not doing that either, but all the talk of how much skill he has is really besides the point. He's enigmatic in the sense that he isn't doing what he's already proven capable of, not in the sense that he should be able to do more than he's done in the past.
We bemoan the fact that this team lacks heart, plays with little intensity and competes sporadically. Maybe part of that is adding players like Pouliot to the roster. If you're play without heart, you have to contribute.

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Old
12-17-2013, 03:55 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Bagel Bites View Post
Stralman, Prust, Boyle, I guess Zuke wasn't really a "prospect." The hit rate isn't good but I'd be curious as to how it stacks up against the rest of the league. And yeah, Benoit Pouliot was pretty soundly an NHL player, just a weird one.
Prust is a career fringe player? He's one of the best bottom-six players in the league.

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12-17-2013, 03:56 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
It seems to be falling on deaf ears.

Why does he need to be great? Are the Rangers that high ranking that they cannot put up with just good?

He's an underachiever, likely always will be, but that doesn't mean there's no place for him in an NHL lineup.
He's on pace for 18 points. That's less than last season's total. He doesn't do anything particularly well. There might be a place for a player like him on your team. I'd rather not have a player like that on mine.

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12-17-2013, 03:56 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Prust is a career fringe player? He's one of the best bottom-six players in the league.
Wasn't before he got here.

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12-17-2013, 03:56 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Ailurophile View Post
Prust is a career fringe player? He's one of the best bottom-six players in the league.
He wasn't when we got him in, we made his career.

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12-17-2013, 03:57 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
We bemoan the fact that this team lacks heart, plays with little intensity and competes sporadically. Maybe part of that is adding players like Pouliot to the roster. If you're play without heart, you have to contribute.
Underachieving compared to draft position =/= heartless player

I'm not defending Pouliot's play, because it hasn't been very good, but Pouliot isn't a leader on the team. If the group isn't playing with heart, it's not on Pouliot. It's on Richards, Girardi, Stepan, McDonagh, and Nash (in addition to Cally when he's not hurt). Pouliot is a follower. We have plenty of leaders that this shouldn't be an issue.

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12-17-2013, 03:58 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Man, is this thread annoying me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
you and me both.
Yeah, it's not nearly as stimulating as talking about getting Evander Kane for Del Zott, Pyatt (you know, for cap reasons), Michael St. Croix (you know, because he's Canadian) and a 2015 2nd round pick.


Last edited by SingnBluesOnBroadway: 12-17-2013 at 04:11 PM.
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Old
12-17-2013, 03:59 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
We bemoan the fact that this team lacks heart, plays with little intensity and competes sporadically. Maybe part of that is adding players like Pouliot to the roster. If you're play without heart, you have to contribute.
Ill defer to one of my favorite Tawnos quotes of all time, which I vehemently disagree with: "you either have it or you don't any given night. Work ethic rarely matters."

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Old
12-17-2013, 04:03 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
Underachieving compared to draft position =/= heartless player
Nope. His play shows he's a heartless player. There are few things I hate more than wasted talent (guys like Poti and Zherdev). Especially because talent isn't something you can control. You can control how hard you work.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tawnos View Post
I'm not defending Pouliot's play, because it hasn't been very good, but Pouliot isn't a leader on the team. If the group isn't playing with heart, it's not on Pouliot. It's on Richards, Girardi, Stepan, McDonagh, and Nash (in addition to Cally when he's not hurt). Pouliot is a follower. We have plenty of leaders that this shouldn't be an issue.
What does being a leader on the team has to do with anything. I'll never understand how or why "well player X isn't playing well" is an excuse for any other player playing poorly. If anything, the bar has been lowered for Pouliot. Yet he still manages to underwhelm.

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12-17-2013, 04:11 PM
  #65
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I am a staunch believer that if you aren't capable of producing consistently, then you have to be consistent in some other facet of the game, whether it be defensive play, forechecking ability, physicality, etc. Pouliot lacks consistency across the board and is of little use when he isn't scoring.

While Pouliot has produced at a decent rate on his previous teams, he has also been made a healthy scratch by those teams, which raises a red flag to me and speaks to his inconsistency.

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12-17-2013, 04:19 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
He's on pace for 18 points. That's less than last season's total. He doesn't do anything particularly well. There might be a place for a player like him on your team. I'd rather not have a player like that on mine.
I don't know if you're making a serious attempt to debate the points I'm making, but I'll proceed assuming you are.

I don't think anyone is happy with Pouliot's play this season. I'm certainly not. But there's some revisionism going on with what Pouliot was before he signed with the Rangers. He wasn't found on a scrap heap somewhere. He was a productive NHL player for all of his recent history. He wasn't signed because Sather was scouring the free agent market for former top five draft picks.

For whatever reason, his play has regressed here.

So there's no further confusion, here's an illustration of how I feel about Pouliot's production:


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Old
12-17-2013, 05:08 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I don't know if you're making a serious attempt to debate the points I'm making, but I'll proceed assuming you are.

I don't think anyone is happy with Pouliot's play this season. I'm certainly not. But there's some revisionism going on with what Pouliot was before he signed with the Rangers. He wasn't found on a scrap heap somewhere. He was a productive NHL player for all of his recent history. He wasn't signed because Sather was scouring the free agent market for former top five draft picks.

For whatever reason, his play has regressed here.

So there's no further confusion, here's an illustration of how I feel about Pouliot's production:

For reference Ryan Callahan's career high is 1.98 (in 2010-11), and that was an outlier.

Pouliot has been a great 5v5 scorer that has had a surprisingly dismal season so far.

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12-17-2013, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Blue Blooded View Post
For reference Ryan Callahan's career high is 1.98 (in 2010-11), and that was an outlier.

Pouliot has been a great 5v5 scorer that has had a surprisingly dismal season so far.
And to add on to that, he's done it as largely the 7th-9th forward in ES TOI/G on his team.


Last edited by Tawnos: 12-17-2013 at 07:29 PM.
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Old
12-17-2013, 07:20 PM
  #69
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I'd like to add Tom Poti as an early 2000's Rangers enigma. Was supposed to possess the ability to turn into a very good to great offensive D-Man, and showed flashes of being a good back line goal scorer, at least. But his work ethic and desire was constantly being questioned too, and rightfully so.

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Old
12-17-2013, 08:10 PM
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He wasn't when we got him in, we made his career.
thanks, but I didn't really do much. Mostly just eat appetizers and drink beer while i watched games.

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Old
12-18-2013, 04:39 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by DelZottoHitTheNetJK View Post
I'm gonna catch heat for this but I don't understand the Pouliot hate. He's the perfect third liner. He has very nice offensive skills and he plays hard every shift and finishes checks. He does take some dumb penalties once in a while but I have to imagine that can be coached out of his game. He's definitely frustrating though because he's not a good finisher from what I've seen of him.

For all the hate he receives, he has been clutch. SO winner against Calgary with the nice assist to Hagelin on his goal; awesome play to Brassard for the GWG against Detroit; GWG in a big game against the Islanders.

To me it just looks like he's trying TOO hard out there. Maybe a result of not getting regular shifts most of the year. All I know is that for $1M I've been really happy with what he's provided
The thing about Pouliot in my eyes is that he makes doesn't seem like a very confident player MOST of the time. There are rare times where the dude will go one on one with a defenseman and dance right around him with some sick deke but those times are few and far between. His lack of confidence also seeps into his passing-game. I've seen him make countless soft passes either out of our zone or in the neutral zone that get picked off. Lastly, I've seen him bobble some passes that should be simple for a dude with his skill to receive without trouble. Like.. the pass will hit hit his tape and he'll get nervous or whatever and lose control of it right away or leave it behind him.

The reason I think it's a confidence issue with him is because the dude clearly has the skill and speed to be a decent 50 point player. So what else would be holding him back? Confidence. He's also pretty skinny but I don't think that alone would hurt his game that much.

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Old
12-18-2013, 08:15 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
I agree with you but we never had AV try it before as the coach.
The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. What is it that tells you that AV is the ONE coach who can get Poulliot to play to potential?
Quote:
He seems to think Poo has the talent so he wants to work with him.
Everybody has the talent. Otherwise they would not make it to the best hockey league in the world.
Quote:
Kreider looks like a completely different player under AV than under Torts so I'm willing to give AV the benefit of the doubt on this one.
And Girardi and Stepan look worse. As does Brassard. The argument only gets you so far.

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Old
12-18-2013, 08:19 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Bagel Bites View Post
And yeah, Benoit Pouliot was pretty soundly an NHL player, just a weird one.
Yes, he is an NHL player. One that cannot stick to a team. 5 teams in 6 years decided that they were better off without him. What does that tell you?

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Old
12-18-2013, 08:25 AM
  #74
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I was excited about this signing over the off-season because of his 5v5 stats but he has looked God awful

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Old
12-18-2013, 08:50 AM
  #75
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I wouldn't call Poo an enigma. Hes pretty easy to figure out actually. Fine speed but his head and hands just don't follow suit.

Wouldn't call Brassard one either. You know what you get. At least he stepped up in the playoffs. Maybe that's the type of player he'll be. Up and down reg season then turn it up 2 notches.

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