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Let's talk about movies (and TV shows)... Part III

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Old
12-17-2013, 02:54 PM
  #251
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I'm not a huge fan of Nolan either, I mean I like his work but I wouldn't list him among my favorite directors or anything, but I think Hollywood is a lot better with him around than not.

You can argue that his movies aren't as brilliant as everyone says they are, and you might have a case, but I would still rather have a hundred Nolans trying a hundred things like Inception than the crap Hollywood usually vomits up.

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12-17-2013, 03:14 PM
  #252
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Nolan's ultimate quality is that he's approachable without being needlessly simple. It's admirable until the complexity of his story turns on itself and he substitutes development with break-neck editing and quick dialogue.

Yeah, it's good for Hollywood that he's around - from where else would we get grimdark self-serious superhero movies about guys in bat suits ? I kid, I kid.

As for top directors I think the Coens, Wes Anderson, Linklater, Jonze, PTA, Soderberg, Fincher, Polanski and Lynch are skilled and original and different in their own ways. Of course there's also Scorsese, Cameron, Spielberg, Mann, and Tarantino. Another group would include Cronenberg, Mendes, R Scott, T Scott, Stone, Ron Howard, Ang Lee, Spike Lee and Danny Boyle.

Nolan, for me, just doesn't match up to a lot of them in terms of substance. Where would he fit in those names? I really don't know, the Batman trilogy casts a huge and sometimes unfavorable shadow over his work. Same goes for Brian Singer.

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12-17-2013, 03:23 PM
  #253
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^ It's worth nothing that Nolan is still relatively early into his career, all things considered. He's only 43, with just 8 feature films - 3 devoted to a guy in a bat costume.

He may not have hit the heights of many of the names you listed, but some of those names have been responsible for some pretty terrible movies too. I think you could easily slot him easily in the third group you listed, at the very least.

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12-17-2013, 03:50 PM
  #254
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^ It's worth nothing that Nolan is still relatively early into his career, all things considered. He's only 43, with just 8 feature films - 3 devoted to a guy in a bat costume.

He may not have hit the heights of many of the names you listed, but some of those names have been responsible for some pretty terrible movies too. I think you could easily slot him easily in the third group you listed, at the very least.
That's kinda what I'm getting at, he's inexperienced and young and 3 of his 6 big movies were batman flicks. It's far too early to call him a gift to filmmaking or a genius.

Also, I kept it to Amerian directors, otherwise there's folks like Cuaron, del Toro, Michael Haneke and Jeunet who blow Nolan's pedestrian, shallow movies away.

I approach movies in two ways: 1) the experience (the Thing, Life of Pi, Gravity, etc.) and 2) the story. Nolan's films are decidedly light on story and teeter between novel and trite in terms of experience.

Fast editing and clever plot manipulation work can only go so far - Pulp Fiction would still be fantastic if it were a linear progression, Memento not so much.

Edit: and I know I come across as a snob when I drop words like pedestrian but Nolan (like Spielberg, Cameron) thrives in that area. He executes very well in that area. And I guess that's admirable but Spielberg and Cameron have a wealth of experience and boundary pushing.

I won't even touch Kubrick because I don't think I can do it justice. A Clockwork Orange, 2001, FMJ, The Shining and Dr Strangelove are what they are.

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12-17-2013, 04:00 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Nolan's ultimate quality is that he's approachable without being needlessly simple. It's admirable until the complexity of his story turns on itself and he substitutes development with break-neck editing and quick dialogue.

Yeah, it's good for Hollywood that he's around - from where else would we get grimdark self-serious superhero movies about guys in bat suits ? I kid, I kid.

As for top directors I think the Coens, Wes Anderson, Linklater, Jonze, PTA, Soderberg, Fincher, Polanski and Lynch are skilled and original and different in their own ways. Of course there's also Scorsese, Cameron, Spielberg, Mann, and Tarantino. Another group would include Cronenberg, Mendes, R Scott, T Scott, Stone, Ron Howard, Ang Lee, Spike Lee and Danny Boyle.

Nolan, for me, just doesn't match up to a lot of them in terms of substance. Where would he fit in those names? I really don't know, the Batman trilogy casts a huge and sometimes unfavorable shadow over his work. Same goes for Brian Singer.
You're saying that the Bat films cast a huge shadow over Nolan's work (never mind that they are the best within a genre), but you subsequently list directors who have made a ton of bad movies between them. You're also borderline ridiculous for reproaching a then 33 year old director for taking the opportunity of directing a 150 million dollar budget movie in Batman Begins. You're saying it casts "a huge shadow over his work", lol, as if you would turn down the opportunity to write a screenplay for a 150 million dollar (250 million after inflation) "cape-crap" film if you were barely starting out in your career. I predict you'd be kissing the floor.

James Cameron made Avatar (mediocre, not bad), Ridley Scott made Prometheus and Kingdom of Heaven (which has the worst line of dialogue I've ever heard), Ang Lee made The Hulk, Steven Soderbergh made the rev olting Contagion, and Fincher made the cheap knockoff The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. All of those movies are one or more steps down from Nolan's median. Those are *not* exceptions, I'm sure my list would be three or four times longer if I had seen their entire collective filmography in its entirety.

Ridley Scott did not get much respect when he was young. Blade Runner and Alien got little to no respect when they came out. You know what Scott reached his greatest accolades for? The overrated Gladiator. It was easy to respect Scott in 2000, I'd be more impressed with those who liked him in 1985, when quite frankly he was a little better.

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12-17-2013, 04:24 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
You're saying that the Bat films cast a huge shadow over Nolan's work (never mind that they are the best within a genre), but you subsequently list directors who have made a ton of bad movies between them. You're also borderline ridiculous for reproaching a then 33 year old director for taking the opportunity of directing a 150 million dollar budget movie in Batman Begins. You're saying it casts "a huge shadow over his work", lol, as if you would turn down the opportunity to write a screenplay for a 150 million dollar (250 million after inflation) "cape-crap" film if you were barely starting out in your career. I predict you'd be kissing the floor.

James Cameron made Avatar (mediocre, not bad), Ridley Scott made Prometheus and Kingdom of Heaven (which has the worst line of dialogue I've ever heard), Ang Lee made The Hulk, Steven Soderbergh made the rev olting Contagion, and Fincher made the cheap knockoff The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. All of those movies are one or more steps down from Nolan's median. Those are *not* exceptions, I'm sure my list would be three or four times longer if I had seen their entire collective filmography in its entirety.

Ridley Scott did not get much respect when he was young. Blade Runner and Alien got little to no respect when they came out. You know what Scott reached his greatest accolades for? The overrated Gladiator. It was easy to respect Scott in 2000, I'd be more impressed with those who liked him in 1985, when quite frankly he was a little better.
Two responses:

1) The Dark Knight Rises is considerably worse than every movie you listed except, maybe, Ang Lee's The Hulk.

2) Out of the first group of names you name Fincher and Soderberg. Fincher's Dragon Tattoo was an excellent thriller and his filmography is beyond reproach; Soderberg is 50 and has directed a LOT of films, they are definitely exceptions to his otherwise quality work. Contagion was a genre thriller, it wasn't great, hell you can say it wasn't good but wasn't "revolting" like say, Marion Cotillard's death scene in Dark Knight Rises.

And I agree about Speilberg and Cameron and especially when it comes to Ridley Scott. That man has fallen off the wayside... though The Counselor has something going for it: it's original and vicious, people were expecting the wrong thing. Blade Runner and Alien/Aliens are some of favorite films and they're undoubtedly better than the cape-crap movies of Nolan, Whedon et al.

As for the kissing the floor bit - yeah, and what of it? That's just a lowblow to someone you know is in film school. No one in my position would turn down ANY production, much less a billion dollar franchise. That doesn't mean he's beyond criticism because I'm not as successful as he is yet... that was a silly comment to make by any means. All things considered the Batman trilogy casts a shadow over his work, if you disagree that's fine but until he releases more good movies he's far from being a genius, especially if he sticks to his formula.

edit:

I've written about why I don't consider cape-crap movies any good at length a multitude of times but basically: There is no inherent dilemma or danger; the superhero has four subsequent sequels and knockoffs announced, we all know he'll save the day, there will never be any permanent change or damage or something that appears to be a risk of any kind. That's why Rachel dying in TDK worked so well... and why tying up everything in such a neat way in TDKR didn't. Don't get me started on the Avengers.

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12-17-2013, 04:44 PM
  #257
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He played his part well, don't get me wrong, but I'm siding with w7 on this one. Dent had no progression to speak of. His character just turns the corner on Villain Avenue because his girlfriend dies. I might be simplifying a bit here, but there's no subtlety to any changes his character goes through.


One thing I find nobody brings up in the Nolan trilogy is just how god damn uninteresting Batman/Bruce Wayne is.
It's been a while since I've seen the movie, but I didn't quite feel that way at the time. Probably need to watch it again, but meh.

Agree with Batman though, but it's not just on Nolan. Bale did nothing for me in the role, except for dat voice. If I had never seen him act in another movie, I'd have no idea how he is even seen as an average actor.

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12-17-2013, 05:28 PM
  #258
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Lilyhammer Season 2 is now out on Netflix and its not disappointing . Only 8 episodes long so I have to ration it for myself like expensive scotch.

Totally watching Parks and Recreation from series start too.

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12-17-2013, 06:03 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
Two responses:

1) The Dark Knight Rises is considerably worse than every movie you listed except, maybe, Ang Lee's The Hulk.

2) Out of the first group of names you name Fincher and Soderberg. Fincher's Dragon Tattoo was an excellent thriller and his filmography is beyond reproach; Soderberg is 50 and has directed a LOT of films, they are definitely exceptions to his otherwise quality work. Contagion was a genre thriller, it wasn't great, hell you can say it wasn't good but wasn't "revolting" like say, Marion Cotillard's death scene in Dark Knight Rises.

And I agree about Speilberg and Cameron and especially when it comes to Ridley Scott. That man has fallen off the wayside... though The Counselor has something going for it: it's original and vicious, people were expecting the wrong thing. Blade Runner and Alien/Aliens are some of favorite films and they're undoubtedly better than the cape-crap movies of Nolan, Whedon et al.

As for the kissing the floor bit - yeah, and what of it? That's just a lowblow to someone you know is in film school. No one in my position would turn down ANY production, much less a billion dollar franchise. That doesn't mean he's beyond criticism because I'm not as successful as he is yet... that was a silly comment to make by any means. All things considered the Batman trilogy casts a shadow over his work, if you disagree that's fine but until he releases more good movies he's far from being a genius, especially if he sticks to his formula.
There's no intended "low blow" to someone I know is in film school.

Chill .

You're at an early stage in your career in an uber-competitive industry, and I'm 98% sure you would kiss the ground if you had the opportunity to write the screenplay for a cape-crap film, and I extended the prediction to the bulk of your classmates whom I have not met. I mean no denigration in saying you would jump at the opportunity (lol, why would that be bad?), I'm critical of you criticising Nolan for having taken the opportunity... there's no "dark shadow" over his career. He was young, he wasn't proven, he was given the opportunity to do Batman, and he subsequently made the best comic book movies ever made. You'd make the same decision, so don't condemn him.

TDKR is better than a lot of movies I listed, which I won't go through all. In particular, Contagion, is the worst movie I've listed. It's fine that you don't like TDKR, but at the end of the day, it's well-regarded, so you're the exception. Here is my review of Contagion from a few years ago, where I delineated how it's a dismal failure:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAChampion critiques Soderbergh's Contagion
The film had a huge star-studded cast, Kate Winslet, Gwyneth Paltrow, Laurence Fishburn, Tien You Chui, Jude Law, MarionCotillard, Matt Damon, et cetera. I was not expecting that, and they all had real parts. What the movie attempts to do is portray a"realistic" societal response to an epidemic on the scale of the 1918 Spanish flu. They managed to capture an increase in crime,general panic, the early attempts at coverup, and how the distribution of power might take place. I like how they showed the originof the virus and how it spread. However, the societal response is where I think it's a flawed movie. This is unfortunate, because interms of the premise of the film, and how the first 45 minutes go, this was going to be a great film, was going to be a greatrealization of what Science Fiction should be, Dune and 1984, not Transformers.

The government comes off as being very effective in this movie. Within 18 months the establishment finds and distributes avaccine to an incredible mutant virus, and the people are saved. The malcontents are the Chinese characters, the bloggercharacter and his readers, the black guy... this does a perfect job of reproducing the power dynamics beloved of the Hollywoodestablishment, as can be seen by their pimping of the poverty porn festival Slumdog Millionaire (won best picture at the academyawards), and the bourgeois class-relations fantasy that was The King's Speech (also won best picture at the academy awards).

The US government gets everything right in Contagion. They isolate the victims, give them decent and compassionate end of lifecare, they find the vaccine fairly quickly, and they distribute it in a fair and just manner. This is not the US government thatscrewed up after 9/11, that ran post-Saddam Iraq into the ground, nor is it the US government that screwed up in Katrina. They dida heck of a job in this film, they did so without Brownie (reference to Michael Brown, former head of FEMA), and they did it for real.The government in this film is a fantasy government that gets everything right in an efficient manner. Trust the ruling elites -- atypical message from Hollywood.

The symmetry is held up as well. The blogger Jude Law is a liar and a fraud in the film. He does catch on to the virus before themainstream media, an acknowledgement from Hollywood that bloggers get some things right and get them right early. However, heconstructs a false narrative to explain it. He fabricates a claim on his popular blog that a homeopathic medication helps cure thevirus... just after he has bought up stock in the company that makes the medication. He convinces millions of people not to takethe vaccine --- within this movie government is good and bloggers and their readers are bad. The government actually has a hardtime capturing this blogger because they have to follow the rules before arresting him, and they let him out on bail. Uh huh, sincewhen does the government follow rules? Has private Bradley Manning been released by the government, or are they making himwalk around in Figure 8's as a form of torture?

There's only one failure of the government caught in this movie ... and it happened to Laurence Fishburne's character, Dr EllisCheever. I was thinking during the film that this was an oddity on Hollywood's part. Here was a black character in a movie who wasin a leadership position, and implementing things properly. He was in charge of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, andhe was administering things with poise and logic in a time of crisis --- normally this kind of role would go to a white actor likeGeorge Clooney (a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, an imperialist think tank), not a black actor like LaurenceFishburne. It was very confusing to watch. However, this only lasted the first 45 minutes of the film. He is the one governmentofficial who ends up being disgraced, the one exception to the image shown of perfect government. He did what we can onlyassume many government officials did / would do, he told his girlfriend to get out of Chicago (to be safer from disease). This getscaught by a blogger, and Dr. Cheever is humiliated on national TV. He is then told by his white superiors that he has screwed up,and that he will no longer be on TV. A white government official tells Cheever that the only reason he's not being layed off is that heis irreplaceable --- yielding the power dynamic of indentured servitude. At the end of the film we see Cheever being friends with thejanitor, he treats the janitor as his equal and gives the janitor's son his own vaccine. Only the disgraced black character is an equalof the janitor. Overall, the fact he is the only member of his "class" to be friends with the janitor, and that his wife is portrayed asan absolute ditz, gives the impression that he, the one black character of note in the film, is nothing more than a tourist in hissojourn among ruling elites.

This movie is also racist against Chinese. Marion Cotillard's character is a world health organization investigator, and she getskidnapped by Chinese colleagues who hope that having her as hostage means they will jump to first in line to get vaccines, and wesee their impoverished third world village. We learn from this that Chinese people are evil, because they're kidnapping a beautifulwestern woman to steal vaccines. We also learn they're stupid --- it seems there's no prospect of China developing a vaccine, andthey know it too, they're just scheming to be first in line when the United States develops a vaccine, i.e. China can survive as aconniving parasite living off the innovative United States. Their stupidity is fully confirmed at the end, when they give up theirhostage in exchange for placebo vaccines !!!

Contagion glorifies the existing power structure, it is racist against African Americans and against Chinese. It imagines a world where the government is fully efficient and makes no mistakes, one where we should trust authority.
***************

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven
I've written about why I don't consider cape-crap movies any good at length a multitude of times but basically: There is no inherent dilemma or danger; the superhero has four subsequent sequels and knockoffs announced, we all know he'll save the day, there will never be any permanent change or damage or something that appears to be a risk of any kind. That's why Rachel dying in TDK worked so well... and why tying up everything in such a neat way in TDKR didn't. Don't get me started on the Avengers.
It's perfectly fine to hate the genre, and these are legitimate grievances, but Nolan making the best comic book movies that have been made is still an accomplishment. Possible exception being Superman 1979, based on it being so iconic and influential.

The Avengers is very derivative of previous works. I don't think it's terrible, I think it's average. The movie disappoints me, because Joss Whedon was so talented when he was young. Now, he is 49 and he has credibility, but he obviously doesn't have the creative fire he once had.

ETA: Steven Soderbergh's Contagion is basically a superhero film, with the American government clunkily meeting all the criteria you describe in the paragraph above, only vastly less interesting.


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12-17-2013, 06:15 PM
  #260
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The more I read complaints from Nolan the more I'm convinced people don't like him because he's "popular".

Also, the people who generally bash Nolan tend to be of the same mold.

Momento and Inception were brilliant. The Prestige was fantastic as well.

As for the Batman's, yeah they are super-hero movies, but they were still fantastic for super hero films. The Batman films under Nolan set the bar for superhero films for me, so far ahead, big rupture here.

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12-17-2013, 06:18 PM
  #261
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All of this film talk makes me want to watch 8 1/2 again. Maybe if the Habs game goes poorly enough I will put it on.

I made use of this site years ago that polled a bunch of writers and directors about their top 10 movies. There were hundreds of people polled, so there was quite the variety. Most of the movies selected were older, and I found some of them unenjoyable. One of those was Battleship Potemkin (may have misspelled it). Some of the choices were from unexpected sources, and ended up being better than I figured. One of those was The Searchers by Ford, and another was City Lights by Chaplin. One random one by someone's whose name I can't recall was called Letter from an Unknown Woman. I highly recommend it.

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12-17-2013, 06:24 PM
  #262
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As for the Batman talk, I know the narrative very well but you can't just pick and choose and ascribe convenient plot arcs: I'm specifically referring to the very short, very abrupt arc of Two-Face: Dent has not had any sort of character growth in the film until he gets captured and burnt... then he comes to face the Joker and is (in a very contrived manner) convinced that his crusade for justice is worthless and chaos reigns... then he goes around all vigilante-like and ends up with a gun on Gordon's kids. I dunno it didn't really work for me but the tension was so palpable with the Joker stuff that I didn't mind it.
I don't think that the Joker in the TDK would work as well without Dent. The Joker is the reason that Dent falls, and thus Dent's fall, which is meaningful, makes the Joker a lot more impressive and terrifying. He breaks The White Knight, who is the hero that Batman thinks Gotham needs and that Rachel Dawes picks over Bruce Wayne. Dent is doing very well in life, he's risen to district attorney and he locks up the mob on RICO, and the Joker ends up breaking him, as Dent loses his girlfriend, half his face, and his vision for how the world works is refuted, all the good he's done is spoiled.

FYI, when the former Montreal Expos owners tried to sue MLB about ten years ago because they didn't like how they lost ownership, they tried to use RICO, which is the same legal structure Dent uses in TDK to lock up the mob. This makes Dent a more impressive individual then the former Montreal Expos ownership consortium, and the Joker brought him down .

[[For me, this is actually a small nuisance in TDK, every time the movie gets to that scene I'm pulled out of the film and think of The Expos.]]

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The characters are quite ordinary and the plot is a twist on a very regular story the twist is in the presentation and structure which, as I said, I know very well. I like this movie as well.
You're removing the best part of Memento and claiming that the rest is average. It's like saying that Gravity would be less good if it were an animated feature.

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Absolutely disagree. Aside from a tendency to minimize CGI, Nolan has nothing on Kubrick. Kubrick's movies were subtle, whereas Nolan chews everything up and leaves it on the screen. The only way someone doesn't get the themes of a Nolan movie is if they were raised by an alcoholic chain-smoking mother under power-lines.
"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, it's the war room !"

Nolan, like Kubrick, is sometimes subtle, and sometimes not.

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And what does "idea-based themes" even mean? Every theme is an idea. Nolan's film suffer from being wholly expository and, frankly, obvious. Not that it's a flaw at all, but you're favorably comparing him to a MASTER. Whereas Dr Strangelove is an allegory for sex and masculinity, and some would argue The Shining about anything from Indian genocide to the gold standard to the inherent unreliability of consciousness, no one has to think twice what the Prestige or Inception are about or have to say. Again: this isn't a bad thing but it's definitely shallower than Kubrick.
It was standard within traditional science fiction to use a lot of cardboard and generic characters in order to advance the plot and the ideas explored by the plot. The point was to explore interesting philosophical issues rather than interesting characters, and this is sometimes better achieved by using generic characters.

I don't see anything wrong with the fact Nolan's movies are very focused on a small set of themes. That's not a lack of subtlety, that's focus. It's mirrored by his characters, who are obsessive. It also reflects the fact we live in a different era where people have shorter attention spans. Kubrick's movies wouldn't sell in 2013, a lot of his scenes last a very long time before we see a "fade to black" with something else happening.

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His movies are like Big Macs.
Do you actually like big macs?

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12-17-2013, 06:25 PM
  #263
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The more I read complaints from Nolan the more I'm convinced people don't like him because he's "popular".

Also, the people who generally bash Nolan tend to be of the same mold.

Momento and Inception were brilliant. The Prestige was fantastic as well.

As for the Batman's, yeah they are super-hero movies, but they were still fantastic for super hero films. The Batman films under Nolan set the bar for superhero films for me, so far ahead, big rupture here.
First batman is still the best batman film

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12-17-2013, 06:28 PM
  #264
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First batman is still the best batman film
It's definitely got that nostalgic factor.

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12-17-2013, 06:34 PM
  #265
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All of this film talk makes me want to watch 8 1/2 again. Maybe if the Habs game goes poorly enough I will put it on.

I made use of this site years ago that polled a bunch of writers and directors about their top 10 movies. There were hundreds of people polled, so there was quite the variety. Most of the movies selected were older, and I found some of them unenjoyable. One of those was Battleship Potemkin (may have misspelled it). Some of the choices were from unexpected sources, and ended up being better than I figured. One of those was The Searchers by Ford, and another was City Lights by Chaplin. One random one by someone's whose name I can't recall was called Letter from an Unknown Woman. I highly recommend it.
I think you're thinking about Sight and Sound. Once per decade, they poll a lot of industry big wigs and directors on their top-10 movies, and they sum the movies.

The top-50 films of all time according to Sight and Sound (from 2012):
http://www.bfi.org.uk/news/50-greatest-films-all-time
Vertigo is #1. They more or less hate any movie that came out after 1980.

The top-10 films of 2013 according to Sight and Sound:
http://www.bfi.org.uk/news-opinion/s...est-films-2013
Act of Killing is #1.


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12-17-2013, 06:36 PM
  #266
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That would be the site! It is a good way of finding movies you would have never otherwise heard of, especially when abandoning the straight top 10 and going with the voting individuals.

I must admit that I still haven't seen anything Hitchcock directed.

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12-17-2013, 08:25 PM
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All things considered, Act of Killing is a must see for any one.

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12-18-2013, 06:23 AM
  #268
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
All things considered, Act of Killing is a must see for any one.
I don't share your enthusiasm for this film. I did not get any unique historical perspective from what was supposed to be a cutting edge documentary. Putting mass murdering gangsters in a quasi-director role to produce a film about their own atrocities seems interesting, but then it rolled like something you might find from some community college arts project.

The subject was interesting but there was no moments of gravitas or great learning. It just seemed like has-been thugs getting one last crack at telling war stories and re-stoking their infamy.

If I am not mistaken I think you also recommended Prisoners. I just watched it, overall I liked it but it seemed a bit plodding and linear to me. No real plot twists to speak of and no great emotional moments . It could have been a movie about a father's pain and vengeance or it could have been about relentless police work but when the credits rolled I couldn't really choose one thing that it was or anything that made it memorable.

Since you are studying film making I would be interested on your take on these films. I wouldn't recommend Act of Killing and am lukewarm on Prisoners.


Last edited by Agnostic: 12-18-2013 at 06:45 AM.
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12-18-2013, 06:33 AM
  #269
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am lukewarm on Prisoner.
Thanks Agnostic. We seem to share similar tastes on movies. I was gonna go with my GF to watch it tonight. I think I might wait to take her to see American Hustle instead.

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12-18-2013, 06:56 AM
  #270
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Thanks Agnostic. We seem to share similar tastes on movies. I was gonna go with my GF to watch it tonight. I think I might wait to take her to see American Hustle instead.
I wouldn't recommend avoiding it, but I can't say it was a must see either. The IMDB rating of 8.1 is puzzling to me so maybe it just missed the mark with me or I was in the wrong frame of mind. I read some of the user reviews and I am wondering why I can't share the opinions that it's a "non stop suspense thriller" or that "Jackman gives the best performance of his career". Enjoyable but nothing brilliant in my mind.

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12-18-2013, 07:52 AM
  #271
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I wouldn't recommend avoiding it, but I can't say it was a must see either. The IMDB rating of 8.1 is puzzling to me so maybe it just missed the mark with me or I was in the wrong frame of mind. I read some of the user reviews and I am wondering why I can't share the opinions that it's a "non stop suspense thriller" or that "Jackman gives the best performance of his career". Enjoyable but nothing brilliant in my mind.
I think that most movies are overrated on imdb when they are new (among other possible reasons for being overrated). The first people who watch a movie are people who like that kind of movie. I've been paying attention to few and they tend to drop in the first year or two.

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12-18-2013, 08:14 AM
  #272
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First batman is still the best batman film
Adam West was great.

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12-18-2013, 08:17 AM
  #273
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I don't share your enthusiasm for this film. I did not get any unique historical perspective from what was supposed to be a cutting edge documentary. Putting mass murdering gangsters in a quasi-director role to produce a film about their own atrocities seems interesting, but then it rolled like something you might find from some community college arts project.

The subject was interesting but there was no moments of gravitas or great learning. It just seemed like has-been thugs getting one last crack at telling war stories and re-stoking their infamy.
I would agree, to a certain extent. In the end I would say it was more of an interesting experiment than a particularly great movie.

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12-18-2013, 10:01 AM
  #274
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Who likes The Raid: Redemption over here?

the second movie is coming out next year

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12-18-2013, 10:18 AM
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Who likes The Raid: Redemption over here?

the second movie is coming out next year
I enjoyed it, but I doubt a sequel will be any good.

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