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Hide the women and children..Snider wants changes!

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Old
12-17-2013, 10:50 PM
  #101
MayonnaiseOreo
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
The last time Snider made an ultimatum we got Bryz.
Beef, I'm not sure how I feel about your newest avatar. It looks like a skinned human head.

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12-17-2013, 10:51 PM
  #102
Beef Invictus
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Beef, I'm not sure how I feel about your newest avatar. It looks like a skinned human head.



It's a sculpture made of meat. Googling "meat sculpture" was surprisingly not as horrifying as I feared it would be.

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12-17-2013, 10:58 PM
  #103
LegionOfDoom91
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I really wish this guy would find another hobby to enjoy his remaining years with.

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12-17-2013, 11:32 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
You say the best plan is to rebuild correctly at this time....yet you're a proponent of building incorrectly and trying for the instant fix.

So which is it? Are we trying to build correctly from within and through the draft? Are we supposed to grow and develop a core over the course of a few seasons and build a competitive team around them?

Or are we trying to blow a new hole in the team to instantly fix a different hole? Because we aren't getting an established #1 without paying a lot for it.
In my view the way to build correctly is to fix the defense first, through the draft and trades if needed.
I believe in drafting defense, but also in stockpiling defensive talent through trades as well.

In my opinion the offensive core is very average and overrated.
They lack the skills and speed necessary to be successful in winning a CUP.
I think that at this point there is no harm in blowing a hole in the offense, to fix the defense.
Especially since we seem to have skill in drafting and developing centermen.

BTW, blowing up the offense is not in instant fix, of course.
You are correct that fixing the defense will leave the offense with some holes.
We cannot fix our defensive woes without over payment, we have neglected to draft defenders until recently.
I just believe that to patch the defense and stock the offense with talent is backwards thinking.
Patching the defense with players like Coburn, Grossman and Streit is not the answer.
Holmgren tries that tactic each year to no success.


Last edited by DecadesofFutility: 12-18-2013 at 07:33 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old
12-18-2013, 01:31 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by bauerhockey02 View Post
This is why I say the offense is what I would look at fixing. I really think using Boston as a model is the way to go. We need more two-way forwards and an elite winger for giroux. Then by letting the dmen in our system develop and continuing to build through the draft this team could be made to be a strong competitor. These knee jerk reactions need to stop. It is time to be patient, create an identity for this team, and let the roster grow into a true contender.
well the only way to get those 2 way players is trading for them. Whether you want to call that a knee-jerk reaction trade the Flyers are going to have to trade for them. They have some guys who are adequate defensively but nobody I would consider a top defensive forward. (Sorry Giroux isnt)
Teams usually dont give those guys away either so again, if you really want one its going to require an over payment. Do the Flyers have the resources to acquire not only a top end defensive forward, but a elite scoring winger for Giroux. A guy whos going to snipe it from anywhere in the offensive zone. Unless you are willing to git the prospect pool(something I am against) then its not going to happen. This team is not anywhere near to being a contender.
I do agree that they need to be patient with their young prospects tho. they are starting to build a nice group of young defenseman. Let them develop and for God sakes dont rush them.

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12-18-2013, 08:22 AM
  #106
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The thing about waiting for the team's three defensive prospects – who aren't elite, but very good – to develop and make their way onto the big club is that they are probably at least three years away from just competing for a spot in the Flyers line-up. Add on a few years for them to adjust to the NHL and actually find their game, and we're talking 6-8 years for them to potentially have a significant impact.

While I understand and support the opinion that it would be a big mistake to deplete the current roster to bring on a true #1 defenseman, there is still a lot of hockey to be played from now until Morin, Gostisbehere and Hagg become the defensive core. A franchise needs a steady stream of talent to stay competitive and we're talking about an almost complete overhaul of the roster in this time. If a #1 lite like Edler (healthy) could be had for Simmonds + 1st, for example, I think that is a very good deal.

IMO, this team should be aiming for serious contention in two years, given the age and structure of their line-up. Then bring Morin, Gostisbehere and Hagg into a winning environment to give them the best chance to hit their ceiling.

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12-18-2013, 08:57 AM
  #107
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Edler is regressing which is why all the Vancouver fans keep trying to trade him. He's not close to being a #1.

He's -12, easily the worst on the Canucks.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary

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12-18-2013, 09:17 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Edler is regressing which is why all the Vancouver fans keep trying to trade him. He's not close to being a #1.

He's -12, easily the worst on the Canucks.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary
When they played together in Van I always thought Ehrhoff was the better all round player.

He would be worth going after... but would cost too much most likely.

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12-18-2013, 09:25 AM
  #109
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If there is a way to get a very good young defensman that doesn't include trading Couturier and Giroux -- and not too many picks ala Pronger -- you make that trade. I just don't see it happening because nobody gives up those players in the first place. Any other move via trade is pretty much lateral.

The Flyers are starting to see the light in terms of building from within. I suspect that is Holmgren-led, and to that I say better late than never. I'm not sure that he'll last to see what comes of it, but it's good that we've started. Stay the course and keep the core together. As others have said, work on developing/getting forwards who can contribute at both ends of the ice.

Over the next couple of years -- assuming Snider's still involved -- we're going to see a battle between ideologies, and based on the path the Flyers take, we'll see just how much control Snider has over things.

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Old
12-18-2013, 09:30 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
well the only way to get those 2 way players is trading for them. Whether you want to call that a knee-jerk reaction trade the Flyers are going to have to trade for them. They have some guys who are adequate defensively but nobody I would consider a top defensive forward. (Sorry Giroux isnt)
Teams usually dont give those guys away either so again, if you really want one its going to require an over payment. Do the Flyers have the resources to acquire not only a top end defensive forward, but a elite scoring winger for Giroux. A guy whos going to snipe it from anywhere in the offensive zone. Unless you are willing to git the prospect pool(something I am against) then its not going to happen. This team is not anywhere near to being a contender.
I do agree that they need to be patient with their young prospects tho. they are starting to build a nice group of young defenseman. Let them develop and for God sakes dont rush them.
I'm okay with Giroux's line being more of an offensive line but otherwise I'd prefer the rest of the team do well both ways. Couturier is great defensively and I believe Laughton is supposed to be a good two way player. A couple trades to get rid of those who are defensive liabilities will help along with free agent signings to supplement and building through the draft.
Right now we have a mix of players without an identity. With the players we have now I have no idea what type of team this is supposed to be.

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Old
12-18-2013, 10:30 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
well the only way to get those 2 way players is trading for them. Whether you want to call that a knee-jerk reaction trade the Flyers are going to have to trade for them. They have some guys who are adequate defensively but nobody I would consider a top defensive forward. (Sorry Giroux isnt)
Teams usually dont give those guys away either so again, if you really want one its going to require an over payment. Do the Flyers have the resources to acquire not only a top end defensive forward, but a elite scoring winger for Giroux. A guy whos going to snipe it from anywhere in the offensive zone. Unless you are willing to git the prospect pool(something I am against) then its not going to happen. This team is not anywhere near to being a contender.
I do agree that they need to be patient with their young prospects tho. they are starting to build a nice group of young defenseman. Let them develop and for God sakes dont rush them.
Or drafting them. Which is what the Flyers have done. You say we don't have a top end defensive forward, so I guess you don't consider Couturier one. Why not?

We also have Laughton and Leier in the pipeline who are projected to be defensively responsible.

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12-18-2013, 12:17 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by SCOREacek View Post
Or drafting them. Which is what the Flyers have done. You say we don't have a top end defensive forward, so I guess you don't consider Couturier one. Why not?

We also have Laughton and Leier in the pipeline who are projected to be defensively responsible.
Couturier is very good defensively. I probably should of mentioned that. So my bad. it was rather late and I was tired as I was typing that out.
Laughton and Leier have both done well defensively at the junior level. We will see how that translates(on both sides of the puck) in the NHL.
I know more about Laughton then Leier actually. Leier is more of an unknown to me. is Leier more likely to go the AHL route first?

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Old
12-18-2013, 12:50 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Edler is regressing which is why all the Vancouver fans keep trying to trade him. He's not close to being a #1.

He's -12, easily the worst on the Canucks.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...ewName=summary
I haven't seen many Canuck games this season, but it seems like Edler's game has gone off a bit of a cliff. Coincidentally, this came about with Tortorella as the new coach. I'm wildly speculating that he's just having an off season.

Edler, to me, would be a buy-low type defender. For the undisputed number 1's, it would cost one or more of the players most of us would consider untouchable. To get someone who can be reasonably considered to play top-line minutes without napalming the line-up, there's going to be an element of risk of regressing play (eg, Edler) or development path (eg, Gormley).

While I'm on the subject of possibly landing a 1D, after seeing Phaneuf on the wrong end of the highlight reel from last night's game, I'm more convinced than ever that Holmgren should stay far away from him.

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Old
01-28-2014, 11:59 AM
  #114
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Snider: 'No quick fixes' for slumping Flyers

Interesting take since his last comments....

Love how he tries to present himself as hands off...

Quote:
He also said there are on-ice things that need resolved.

“Our team, unfortunately, has some shortcomings which we got to correct,” Snider said. “And work hard to do that.”

The trade deadline is March 5.

“I don’t know anything about trading,” Snider said. “It’s not a quick process. There is no quick fixes in this game. I think we’re a good team, and if we pull it all together like we did during a good chunk of that [9-2] run, we can beat anybody.”

Snider supports the job Berube has been doing behind the bench as Peter Laviolette’s successor but said he left the decision to hire Berube up to general manager Paul Holmgren.

“Paul Holmgren had great respect for him, felt he had a great hockey mind, said to me he’s got one of the sharpest hockey minds of any guy he knows, and Paul was very bullish on Craig,” Snider said. “I never had enough interaction with Craig to know. It’s no different than when Fred Shero was hired by Keith Allen. I didn’t know Fred at all. I go by what my GM tells me.”

http://www.csnphilly.com/hockey-phil...lumping-flyers

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01-28-2014, 12:10 PM
  #115
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It wouldn't surprise me at all if he is hands off. He is almost 80 and he is not nearly as visible as he was when Clarke was the GM.

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01-28-2014, 12:16 PM
  #116
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The last time it looked like he was definitely "hands-on" was 2011 and it didn't turn out well. Perhaps he's been wary since then.

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01-28-2014, 12:17 PM
  #117
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I agree, he's not making calls, but his "philosophy" is built throughout that organization however. So when Holmgren signs Bryz to a 9 year 56MM deal, its not that Snider told him too, its what Snider would want him to do.

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01-28-2014, 12:18 PM
  #118
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I'll never understand that contract. There was no other team who would have offered Bryz nearly that much money.

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01-28-2014, 12:28 PM
  #119
LegionOfDoom91
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I'm kind of getting sick of Snider's constant reminders that he has no hand in what goes on with the team whenever things are going right.

The Bryz situation really damaged the dudes ego.

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01-28-2014, 01:35 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by LegionOfDoom91 View Post
I'm kind of getting sick of Snider's constant reminders that he has no hand in what goes on with the team whenever things are going right.

The Bryz situation really damaged the dudes ego.
Frankly it is a little insulting that he continues to have us believe he is some passive owner that goes by what the GM tells him.

This is completely contradictory to what Holmgren himself in the press has revealed. This past offseason with the buyout of Bryz, Holmgren was interviewed by Barkann
(the one where he got annoyed at him) and he stated how with team decisions that Snider and Lukko are always involved and they have lots of back and forth and debates! If Snider goes by what the GM tells him then there would be no debate. Maybe on some things he defers to him but in no way do I believe that Snider is passive and doesn't override in many instances. Maybe Lukko was more passive but I doubt Snider is...and now with him assuming Lukko's job there are even less voices in the echo chamber of the front office...

Sorry Ed...you aren't fooling people with your benevolent funny duddy Warren Buffet act...

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01-28-2014, 01:48 PM
  #121
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There's also the simple fact that the Bryz signing runs contrary to how Homer treats goaltending. Guys like Biron and Mason fit the pattern. Projects like Leighton and Emery...Bob fits his general mold of finding the unfound players. Big FA splash...nope. Not his style for goaltending. And it came after Mr. Snider's tantrum in 2011. Sorry...not fooled big guy. Don't slag this one off on Homer.

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01-28-2014, 02:11 PM
  #122
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It seems like the only time we heard Luukko speak on anything in the public was with side events with the Flyers like charities, the college games, the draft, etc. otherwise the dude was a total mute.

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01-28-2014, 05:21 PM
  #123
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I really wish this guy would find another hobby to enjoy his remaining years with.
Perhaps Russian roulette

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01-28-2014, 05:36 PM
  #124
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I don't buy it. I remember a couple of years ago a poster on here said he was sitting in a box next to Snider at a game where they played horrid, and Snider got on the phone and said, "Get me a defenseman, maybe two" or something like that. Not sure if the story was true or not, but the poster did post pictures from the game of Snider. A couple of days later we had Grossmann and Kubina.

Are you telling me this same man is suddenly becoming patient? A few more bad showings on home ice and a few thousand more boos ringing in his ears, and I can see Snider pushing to make trades again. He hates losing. He'd rather contend for a playoff spot even if the team has no real chance to win a round than be in the lottery again.

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01-29-2014, 09:24 AM
  #125
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I don't buy it. I remember a couple of years ago a poster on here said he was sitting in a box next to Snider at a game where they played horrid, and Snider got on the phone and said, "Get me a defenseman, maybe two" or something like that. Not sure if the story was true or not, but the poster did post pictures from the game of Snider. A couple of days later we had Grossmann and Kubina.
It's plausible but who knows.....obviously we only really got 1 defenseman..not 2 since Kubina sucked.

Anyway, there are plenty of instances where Snider has pretty much shown his annoyance and made statements that suggest the GM felt pressured at the very least to do something to appease him.

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