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The Curious Case of Seth Jones's TOI

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Old
12-18-2013, 02:03 PM
  #26
triggrman
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Originally Posted by PredsV82 View Post
ever think that maybe he does that with top prospects so they will learn that they are supposed to be exceptional, and not just decent??

I can imagine the message to Suter was, yes, you belong here and could play, but you can be so much better, so I am going to sit you until you give me your best, not just enough to be better than Mark Eaton or Shane Hnidy


Jones is probably better right now than Bartley will ever be, but if Trotz simply lets him coast along being "just good enough" he wont reach his full potential
I said it was an ego game, and I fully believe that. I didn't say it wasn't effective.

With defensemen that is.

I also believe the season and those big minutes may have been weighing on Jones mentally and maybe backing off some was needed.

I think Trotz has taken it too far though.

There's not much of a justification for him to not be on the second pp unit. Cullen hasn't done much from the point all season (3 pp points) yet Trotz keeps putting him there.

As far as needing watch other teams to gain more hockey knowlege all I can say is "Ok, Chief".

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12-18-2013, 02:38 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Seth Lake View Post
Here's an interesting thought...

Could the reduction in ice time be a decision to help maintain Jones for the long haul of an 82 game season against men as an 18 yo?

Jones has played a lot of hockey. No doubt he can do it, but after a great start he did struggle for a stretch. Right now his ice might be limited to simply have him concentrate on developing a few areas, maintaining his body, and continuing to learn the demands of the pro game.

I lived through Chris Pronger's rookie year in Hartford. Jones is going a lot smoother...
That's probably it. Remember Smith's rookie season when he was going strong until about mid-way through the season? Playing Jones 25 minutes a night will wear him out over the year. It'll be better for him to have some games with lower TOI, and it'll help him learn from his mistakes.

If there is one thing I won't complain about it's Trotz and developing defenseman.

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12-18-2013, 02:47 PM
  #28
Joe T Choker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seth Lake View Post
Here's an interesting thought...

Could the reduction in ice time be a decision to help maintain Jones for the long haul of an 82 game season against men as an 18 yo?

Jones has played a lot of hockey. No doubt he can do it, but after a great start he did struggle for a stretch. Right now his ice might be limited to simply have him concentrate on developing a few areas, maintaining his body, and continuing to learn the demands of the pro game.

I lived through Chris Pronger's rookie year in Hartford. Jones is going a lot smoother...
How do you learn if you're on the bench for 90% of the game ?

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12-18-2013, 02:49 PM
  #29
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Trotz get damned here for being too defensively oriented, but few of us would say he's not a good defensive coach. And few of us would say he doesn't want to win - he clearly does. So if he knows defense, wants to win, at first played Jones a lot and now is playing him a good deal less, isn't something suggested by this? For God's sake, criticize Trotz for now playing an upbeat offensive system, but don't come down on him for not recognizing good defensive play.

Don't forget, Jones is very young and came directly from the WHL.

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12-18-2013, 02:51 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
How do you learn if you're on the bench for 90% of the game ?
It is more like 80% and there are things like practice and film review.

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12-18-2013, 02:52 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Dave is a killer View Post
How do you learn if you're on the bench for 90% of the game ?
By watching and asking questions.

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Old
12-18-2013, 03:19 PM
  #32
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Bartley has played very well with Klein so that is why Jones is on the 3rd pair and I have no problem with that. He should be on the PP though. Cullen on the point doesn't really work. Remember Jones started on the 3rd pair in the 1st game and then Josi got hurt and Trotz was forced to play him more minutes. He never would have gotten all that ice time if it wasn't for injuries. I'm not worried about Jones our forwards are a much bigger concern. We aren't losing because of Jones not playing lots of minutes it is because our forwards can't score.

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12-18-2013, 04:28 PM
  #33
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I do not allways agree with NHL coaches, as i believe that most are old school mentality guys.

Trotz know's that the Preds have a young tallent, that will be with them for some years ... and that, by luck, this young talent, right after the draft, is NHL ready.

In other words they have x years guaranteed ... with this player.
Obviously, when playing him, they will be looking at his development. (in opposition to a 1 yr contract guy)

Trust Trotz ! he is smart, he is a pro ... . Not perfect , yet he still is a smart experienced pro.

In Trotz, you should trust a bit more.

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12-18-2013, 08:36 PM
  #34
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He's not Suter, kids.

We got spoiled because Ryan jumped in and played nearly 25-30 minutes a night without any issues.

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12-18-2013, 08:54 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by jwhouk View Post
He's not Suter, kids.

We got spoiled because Ryan jumped in and played nearly 25-30 minutes a night without any issues.
Oh my God what an ignorant post. And I'm not using ignorant as a slur. Guess what Suter did not do? Play in the NHL right away. He spent a full season with the Ads. Also, his first full year with the Preds he totalled a whopping 16 pts. in 71 games while racking up 66 PIMs.

To compare a 19-year old kid who was been thrown into the fire on a bad hockey team to a current Norris Trophy candidate is just plain dumb. And to say Ryan Suter jumped right in any played without any issues is insane as well. Good grief.


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12-18-2013, 09:12 PM
  #36
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Oh my God what an ignorant post. And I'm not using ignorant as a slur. Guess what Suter did not do? Play in the NHL right away. He spent a full season with the Ads. Also, his first full year with the Preds he totalled a whopping 16 pts. in 71 games while racking up 66 PIMs.

To compare a 19-year old kid who was been thrown into the fire on a bad hockey team to a current Norris Trophy candidate is just plain dumb. And to say Ryan Suter jumped right in any played without any issues is insane as well. Good grief.

There wasn't a NHL season during the one year Suter played in the AHL. That season he did play over 17mins per game.

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12-19-2013, 07:31 AM
  #37
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Suter got the Trotz treatment and guess where he's not playing any more, Nashville. Tell me that didn't play in to his decision to leave and I'll tell you I've got some island to sell you in the New York area.

Why this is even a discussion when we can't score on a consistent basis is beyond me. But hey, let's bench offensive guys, play girders more, give limited minutes to talented kids but hey, we're winning right? NOT.

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12-19-2013, 07:41 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Suter got the Trotz treatment and guess where he's not playing any more, Nashville. Tell me that didn't play in to his decision to leave and I'll tell you I've got some island to sell you in the New York area.

Why this is even a discussion when we can't score on a consistent basis is beyond me. But hey, let's bench offensive guys, play girders more, give limited minutes to talented kids but hey, we're winning right? NOT.
Did I miss something or did the Preds not win three of their last four with Jones playing a third pairing role? Jones is not a better option than Josi on the top pair right now and Bartley is meshing better with Klein on the second pair. Without an injury to the top four, Jones shuffles down the depth chart.

Really the only logical argument is that Cullen on the point isn't working any better (arguably worse) than Jones did there.

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12-19-2013, 08:45 AM
  #39
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Jones is a 19 year old rookie in his first NHL season. He'll have growing pains. I think people have unrealistic expectations. He still looks ahead of guys like Suter and Weber in development.

He doesn't need to be playing 27 minutes a night.

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12-19-2013, 09:04 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by jwhouk View Post
He's not Suter, kids.

We got spoiled because Ryan jumped in and played nearly 25-30 minutes a night without any issues.
Without issue? Seriously? Suter was the number one whipping boy on this board his rookie year. All kinds of threads about how we should have taken Phanuef and Suter should be traded, Suter is a prima donna, etc

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12-19-2013, 09:33 AM
  #41
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Has it been forgotten who the coach was that developed all these defensemen for Nashville at the NHL level? He'll be fine. In fact, he'll be better than fine. You guys have been churning out elite defenders for a while now. Trust the process. It was too much too soon for Jones, no matter how good he looked. His time is coming.

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12-19-2013, 11:41 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by triggrman View Post
Without issue? Seriously? Suter was the number one whipping boy on this board his rookie year. All kinds of threads about how we should have taken Phanuef and Suter should be traded, Suter is a prima donna, etc
Yeah Suter was blasted on these boards back then.

The scary thing is is that Jones looks better than Suter did. And Suter had a year of college and a year of AHL before jumping to the NHL.

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12-19-2013, 12:32 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Suter got the Trotz treatment and guess where he's not playing any more, Nashville. Tell me that didn't play in to his decision to leave and I'll tell you I've got some island to sell you in the New York area.
Suter in his own words was "not as good as he thought he was" his first year in the league. He struggled, as many defensemen do to adjust to NHL caliber players.

The "Trotz treatment" eventually built Suter into 25+ minute a night defenseman and landed him a $100 milllion dollar contract. I'll take that treatment any day.

Trotz is one of the best in the league at developing defenseman... All-stars and even the guys who have struggled to become a consistent NHL defender (Eaton, Zanon, etc) find their stride under Trotz.

Jones is one of the youngest D-men in the league (the youngest?). He was getting un-heard of TOI as a 19 year old. But now we have more luxury to develop him properly now that Weber, Josi are healthy-- which is good because he has come back down to earth with rookie mistakes lately.

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12-19-2013, 01:32 PM
  #44
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Using the development argument doesn't work. Trotz stated last week the NHL is about winning, not developing players. So which is it? Are we developing Jones or are we trying to win? Can't have it both ways.

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12-19-2013, 01:49 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Using the development argument doesn't work. Trotz stated last week the NHL is about winning, not developing players. So which is it? Are we developing Jones or are we trying to win? Can't have it both ways.
Most young players continue to develop throughout their early NHL seasons.

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12-19-2013, 01:54 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by 101st_fan View Post
Most young players continue to develop throughout their early NHL seasons.
Duh. Trotz was on record last week as saying it's about winning and not development. Which is it?

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12-19-2013, 01:59 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Duh. Trotz was on record last week as saying it's about winning and not development. Which is it?
You're mixing AHL level development to reach the NHL with further development as a NHL level talent that all young players must undergo. Using your repeated fallacy, Weber should perform at 2006-07 levels because he couldn't possibly further develop at this level.


Were you at the peak of your ability when you first went to work for any company or did you hone your skills and further develop?

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Old
12-19-2013, 02:44 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by glenngineer View Post
Duh. Trotz was on record last week as saying it's about winning and not development. Which is it?
You win while developing. Everyone is developing until they retire. Or at least they should be.

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