HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Philadelphia Flyers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Brayden Schenn (no supplementary discipline to Wilson); Lecavalier update (12/19)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-19-2013, 04:08 PM
  #176
sa cyred
Yea....the Flyers...
 
sa cyred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Traveling...
Country: Cuba
Posts: 16,275
vCash: 500
Without getting into boring statistics I had a semester working with a few other engineers developing a new form of dasherboard system for hockey. Long story short I worked DIRECTLY on force and the amount of "pressure" it could cause on certain parts of the spine and head. I dont have the exact numbers but when I saw the hit, he greatly exceeded the amount of force needed to gain a concussion. There is no definite numbers (well there will be websites saying there is but many contradict one another. I know because I was comparing close to 10-15 sources at once) but the force that Im guessing he went into the boards PLUS the angle (which is HUGE and alot of people forget that) shows he should of gained a concussion or a type of injury that would of caused him to sit out abit. As someone who IS in the medical field I do feel somewhat concerned about this. Would not be surprised if in the next few days he starts to feel different IF he plays tonight.

sa cyred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 04:12 PM
  #177
Garbage Goal
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,208
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
You're exaggerating like Timmy P here.

Here is the quote from Schenn:

Reporter: What do you remember from the play?
Schenn: Honestly, I remember picking the puck up in the corner; it just happened so fast. He was coming in pretty quick, maybe I did see him for a split second, I really don't remember the play much at all.

So how much did he forget? That's pretty much exactly what happened.

Also, what the F do you want to read about being tested thoroughly? Another quote from Schenn: "I've had everything to make sure, taken the steps to make sure everything's good, and it is."

But everyone's focusing on the fact that he didn't get baseline testing the next day, as if that's the only course of action they NEED to take.
Don't know why you're being so aggressive especially when you're the one leading the charge with this argument by yourself.

Did you completely skip past the last part of the quote where he says verbatim, "I really don't remember the play much at all."

Or did you skip it because it doesn't fit your prerogative?

As I already mentioned as have others, the point isn't necessarily that the Flyers were careless with testing (which they very well could have been), but there's very little reason to play Schenn for this game and some good reasons not to. Doesn't mean Schenn is or is not okay, it's just about being cautious and practicing player safety. It's not that hard of an argument to grasp.


Last edited by Garbage Goal: 12-19-2013 at 04:19 PM.
Garbage Goal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 04:16 PM
  #178
bauerhockey02
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 315
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
So is your issue with the apparent lack of testing or with the fact that he's playing tonight?

Because if your issue is that he's playing tonight, then baseline testing would still not necessarily catch a delayed onset of concussion symptoms.

So the question becomes how long do you wait if the player is feeling fine?




You're exaggerating like Timmy P here.

Here is the quote from Schenn:

Reporter: What do you remember from the play?
Schenn: Honestly, I remember picking the puck up in the corner; it just happened so fast. He was coming in pretty quick, maybe I did see him for a split second, I really don't remember the play much at all.

So how much did he forget? That's pretty much exactly what happened.

Also, what the F do you want to read about being tested thoroughly? Another quote from Schenn: "I've had everything to make sure, taken the steps to make sure everything's good, and it is."

But everyone's focusing on the fact that he didn't get baseline testing the next day, as if that's the only course of action they NEED to take.
I would have him sit out tonight and maybe Saturday. If he really is okay then great but if not then the possibility of second impact occurring has been avoided. Like I said better to be safe than sorry. I just don't think playing tonight is the best thing.

bauerhockey02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 04:18 PM
  #179
hockeyfreak7
Registered User
 
hockeyfreak7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Charlottesville
Posts: 9,969
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garbage Goal View Post
Don't know why you're being so aggressive especially when you're the one leading the charge with this argument by yourself.

Did you completely skip past the last part of the quote where he says verbatim, "I really don't remember the play much at all."

Or did you skip it because it doesn't fit your prerogative.
He says that after recounting pretty much exactly what happened on the play, and he says it in the same off the cuff manner as any player would say "I don't remember what happened" on any given play.

If the question was, "What do you remember?" and all he said was "To be honest, I don't remember much of anything", then I would be concerned.

Quote:
As I already mentioned as have others, the point isn't necessarily that the Flyers were careless with testing (which they very well could have been), but there's very little reason to play Schenn for this game and some good reasons not to. Doesn't mean Schenn is or is not okay, it's just about being cautious and practicing player safety. It's not that hard of an argument to grasp.
Actually, you're the only one making this argument, and I can actually agree with this. I wouldn't mind him sitting out just as a precaution. Everyone else is making the argument that the Flyers were careless which, imo, is far from proven.


EDIT:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bauerhockey02 View Post
I would have him sit out tonight and maybe Saturday. If he really is okay then great but if not then the possibility of second impact occurring has been avoided. Like I said better to be safe than sorry. I just don't think playing tonight is the best thing.
I guess this is the same argument as well. I can agree with this. I wouldn't mind him sitting out either. I just don't think there's any evidence of the Flyers being careless here.

hockeyfreak7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 04:23 PM
  #180
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Doof Warrior
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 48,410
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 View Post
You guys are the one's making the claim here. There is no reason to believe protocol wasn't followed. The only thing you're basing this claim on is the fact that baseline testing was not administered the day after, something that is not a part of protocol.



How in the world are you getting to that conclusion? You have one fact that you're using: there was no baseline testing. That's all.

What about the quiet room? The SCAT 2 exam (which itself is a form of baseline testing)?
Alright, so let's say I am going to far to say they failed to properly test him the night of.

It does nothing to disprove that:

1) The organization has a long history of mishandling concussions and concussed players; some of these incidents are recent.

2) Based on his reaction to the hit and the hit itself, there is absolutely no reason not to play it very safe with Schenn, especially since he has had previous concussions.

3) The organization is making no attempt at 2, and when you consider 1, that's pretty damned concerning.

__________________
Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.
Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 04:24 PM
  #181
kicksave27
Registered User
 
kicksave27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,267
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneHands View Post
So many doctors on HF.
Or just a fair number of people like myself who suffer from PCS after "walking off" hits like that when we were younger and wish we knew then what we do now.

Maybe if I had taken a few games off after being out for a few seconds, even thought I felt fine, I would be able to remember the nouns I would like to use in a sentence while speaking instead of an awkward pause while I struggle to find words. Unfortunately that sort of thing isn't evident



on




boards.

kicksave27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 04:28 PM
  #182
hockeyfreak7
Registered User
 
hockeyfreak7's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Charlottesville
Posts: 9,969
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Alright, so let's say I am going to far to say they failed to properly test him the night of.

It does nothing to disprove that:

1) The organization has a long history of mishandling concussions and concussed players; some of these incidents are recent.

2) Based on his reaction to the hit and the hit itself, there is absolutely no reason not to play it very safe with Schenn, especially since he has had previous concussions.

3) The organization is making no attempt at 2, and when you consider 1, that's pretty damned concerning.
This is fair and reasonable. I'm not going to criticize anybody for not having faith here.

All I'm criticizing is the immediate assumption that something is wrong. There's a difference between believing the possibility that something was done wrong and automatically assuming that something was done wrong based on very limited and sensationalist quotes from guys like Timmy P.

hockeyfreak7 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 04:36 PM
  #183
bauerhockey02
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 315
vCash: 500
I'm not saying anything about the organization. I'm just looking at the impact and what Schenn has said since and it really reminds me of how I was. As I said previously, I passed initial testing by doctors but that didn't mean I actually was fine. With how I ended up having issues days later I can't imagine what would have happened had I had a game a couple days later because I guarantee I would have played since I felt fine and wouldn't have wanted to miss any time.

Concussions/head injuries are just a little unpredictable at times and it is always better to be patient when you take such an impact. No 23 year old would want to sit out without being told to do so though, I know that.

bauerhockey02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 04:40 PM
  #184
bauerhockey02
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: United States
Posts: 315
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kicksave27 View Post
Or just a fair number of people like myself who suffer from PCS after "walking off" hits like that when we were younger and wish we knew then what we do now.

Maybe if I had taken a few games off after being out for a few seconds, even thought I felt fine, I would be able to remember the nouns I would like to use in a sentence while speaking instead of an awkward pause while I struggle to find words. Unfortunately that sort of thing isn't evident



on



boards.
I know exactly what you mean with speaking sometimes....I was just diagnosed as still having PCS the other week which is over four years after my concussion.

bauerhockey02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 04:47 PM
  #185
FlyersFan61290
Registered User
 
FlyersFan61290's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 9,322
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by kicksave27 View Post
Or just a fair number of people like myself who suffer from PCS after "walking off" hits like that when we were younger and wish we knew then what we do now.

Maybe if I had taken a few games off after being out for a few seconds, even thought I felt fine, I would be able to remember the nouns I would like to use in a sentence while speaking instead of an awkward pause while I struggle to find words. Unfortunately that sort of thing isn't evident



on




boards.
If you don't mind me asking, did you ever get diagnosis for the speech problems? Anomic aphasia maybe?

FlyersFan61290 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 04:57 PM
  #186
GingerFetish
Registered User
 
GingerFetish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Country: United States
Posts: 1,395
vCash: 500
Philadelphia Flyers Nation
Tom Wilson gets zero discipline for dirty hit to B. Schenn. smh

GingerFetish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 05:00 PM
  #187
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Doof Warrior
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 48,410
vCash: 500
Wow, not even a fine?

I guess the Wheel of Justice landed on "Bankrupt."

Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 05:01 PM
  #188
MiamiScreamingEagles
Global Moderator
A Fistful of Dollars
 
MiamiScreamingEagles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 42,514
vCash: 2436
Shanahan's explanation:

http://video.nhl.com/videocenter/con...515461&lang=en

__________________
Hay Now


A giant among racehorses, Unbridled became an even more towering figure at stud, siring a winner of each Triple Crown race, as well as champions, Grade 1 winners, and major producers at stud.

Paulick Report, May 19, 2015

Last edited by MiamiScreamingEagles: 12-19-2013 at 05:26 PM.
MiamiScreamingEagles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 05:04 PM
  #189
FlyersFan61290
Registered User
 
FlyersFan61290's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 9,322
vCash: 500
If Schenn weren't playing I can almost guarantee Wilson would get at least a game. Sounds stupid but we all know that plays a role.

FlyersFan61290 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 05:09 PM
  #190
CanadianFlyer88
Moderator
Knublin' PPs
 
CanadianFlyer88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Van City
Posts: 15,780
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyersFan61290 View Post
If Schenn weren't playing I can almost guarantee Wilson would get at least a game. Sounds stupid but we all know that plays a role.
I am certain Schenn's "recovery" factored in to the decision and, though I thought the NHL would have suspended Wilson for at least a game, I'm still not sure what I would have considered an appropriate punishment... if any was deserved at all.

__________________
I deride your truth handling abilities
CanadianFlyer88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 05:10 PM
  #191
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Doof Warrior
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 48,410
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianFlyer88 View Post
I am certain Schenn's "recovery" factored in to the decision and, though I thought the NHL would have suspended Wilson for at least a game, I'm still not sure what I would have considered an appropriate punishment... if any was deserved at all.
Yeah, I had no idea either. My personal prediction was "between a fine and 0-5 games," because NHL discipline is never predictable.

Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 05:11 PM
  #192
GKJ
Global Moderator
Entertainment
 
GKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Do not trade plz
Country: United States
Posts: 115,035
vCash: 1045
It doesn't really bother me that he wasn't suspended. I don't think that was wrong, but if Schenn got hurt, or said he was hurt, or whatever everyone's trying to prove by refusing to administer a test, then something else would have happened.

__________________
Philadelphia's Real Alternative
(ynotradio.net)

Stop Feeding the Rumor-Monger

"I wonder if Norstrom has Forsberg's spleen mounted on his wall." - KINGS17

My 50 Favorite Albums of 2014 (sorry it's late)
GKJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 05:12 PM
  #193
thelos
Bunk
 
thelos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,758
vCash: 500
no fine either?

thelos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 05:12 PM
  #194
flyershockey
Registered User
 
flyershockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,884
vCash: 500
The idea of suspending based on injury rather than intent is going the NHL In the ass as more and more ex-players start suing the league in these concussion lawsuits. It also doesn't help when teams go full-{Edit}like the Flyers have done with showing zero precaution in this latest incident. Oh well, it's not my life or money. Dance on monkeys.


Last edited by Homeland Security: 12-19-2013 at 06:17 PM. Reason: Edit
flyershockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 05:22 PM
  #195
MiamiScreamingEagles
Global Moderator
A Fistful of Dollars
 
MiamiScreamingEagles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 42,514
vCash: 2436
Quote:
Originally Posted by thelos View Post
no fine either?
All players ejected from games get fined but it is a small sum ($200 is the total). Nothing additional came from the ruling today.

MiamiScreamingEagles is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 05:25 PM
  #196
Hockeypete49
How you like me now!
 
Hockeypete49's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: South Jersey
Country: Isle of Man
Posts: 4,862
vCash: 500
It was a hockey play where he deserved a five minute major and a game misconduct. The team responded to the hit right away. End of story.

Hockeypete49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 05:31 PM
  #197
StoneHands
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,369
vCash: 2425
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiScreamingEagles View Post
I dont understand the description of boarding. He states that because Schenn turned that it isn't boarding. Since when does boarding have to be from behind?

StoneHands is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 05:33 PM
  #198
CharlieGirl
Flyers Hockey
 
CharlieGirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Kitchener, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 30,139
vCash: 500
Message to Wilson: Act like a cementhead on the ice, with the NHL's blessing.

Message to Players: If you want the league to consider the hit dangerous, lay on the ice writhing around for a few minutes, and milk it for all it's worth.

Message to GM's: Whine like hell to the press.


Player safety, my ass.

As for Schenn playing tonight, it's irresponsible. There is no harm in sitting him tonight. There is harm if he does have an undiagnosed concussion without symptoms today, and gets hit hard tonight. It's stupid, it's shortsighted, and it's dangerous for him to play tonight after taking such a violent hit two days ago.

CharlieGirl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 05:38 PM
  #199
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
Doof Warrior
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 48,410
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
Message to Wilson: Act like a cementhead on the ice, with the NHL's blessing.

Message to Players: If you want the league to consider the hit dangerous, lay on the ice writhing around for a few minutes, and milk it for all it's worth.

Message to GM's: Whine like hell to the press.


Player safety, my ass.

As for Schenn playing tonight, it's irresponsible. There is no harm in sitting him tonight. There is harm if he does have an undiagnosed concussion without symptoms today, and gets hit hard tonight. It's stupid, it's shortsighted, and it's dangerous for him to play tonight after taking such a violent hit two days ago.
I'm going to be tense every time he's on the ice tonight. As tense as watching a breakaway on Leighton or Bryz, but sustained for an entire shift.

If this experience kills me, you can have my avatar.

Beef Invictus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
12-19-2013, 05:39 PM
  #200
MiamiScreamingEagles
Global Moderator
A Fistful of Dollars
 
MiamiScreamingEagles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 42,514
vCash: 2436
Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneHands View Post
I dont understand the description of boarding. He states that because Schenn turned that it isn't boarding. Since when does boarding have to be from behind?
There is language within the rules that regarding players who put themselves in a vulnerable position under the infraction of boarding. One description by Shanahan that I thought was awkward is when he said Wilson "stopped skating" when he got to the top of the circle. At no point do I see that.

MiamiScreamingEagles is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:38 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.