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PJ Stock explores fighting and cheap shots

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Old
12-20-2013, 12:19 AM
  #1
Dagoon44
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PJ Stock explores fighting and cheap shots

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqEf2...q6C-wy03jyMQrw

this is great totally expresses my feelings in a way I never could.. whats your thoughts

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12-20-2013, 01:22 AM
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jacko23
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agreed. I've been saying this for a while now and PJ nailed it...let the players police themselves. the Players Association put a limit on how much a player can be fined. with as much as the players make, i feel that limit is incredibly low. i think suspensions should be longer, but i don't know if the PA has a limit on that as well.

whats the next best alliterative? in my eyes, let the players police themselves. orpik can clearly throw a mean hit from time to time. but can he back it up? doubtful. or he would have danced with thornton. playing for PIT doesn't help him either, because he can get away with being a gutless punk and not have to answer the bell.

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12-20-2013, 01:40 AM
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TheRightWay
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What a surprise. A guy who only had a spot in the NHL because of fighting is in support of fighting being an important part of hockey. This is really breathtaking stuff here. Show me a clip of Pavel Bure or Tony Amonte sharing the same sentiment and I'll start to buy the idea possibly.

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12-20-2013, 04:16 AM
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i used to think fighting in hockey was silly but i've changed my tune a bit.
i still think it's silly, but i do think it is a good tool to keep the cheap-shot head-hunters in check. (orpik, hendricks, neal, tom 'who?' wilson).
so, if the league isnt going to crack-down on those guys (and they're really not), the next best option is allowing the players to fight.
of course, one side-effect is the occasional me-change-momentum-goon-v-goon throw-down. but i suppose that's not the end of the world. i think the dangerous (and yet so pointless) hits are a bigger worry to player safety than the fighting, so it's a lesser-of-two-evils thing.

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12-20-2013, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRightWay View Post
What a surprise. A guy who only had a spot in the NHL because of fighting is in support of fighting being an important part of hockey. This is really breathtaking stuff here. Show me a clip of Pavel Bure or Tony Amonte sharing the same sentiment and I'll start to buy the idea possibly.
Fighters were all skilled players as kids, who couldn't crack it in the show and had to resort to becoming a fighter, because of its necessity.

That fact alone serves as much purpose as I'll need.

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12-20-2013, 07:29 AM
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Again. It ultimately does not matter what the fans or players want. Fighting will be banned soon

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12-20-2013, 07:46 AM
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Orpik has been suspended twice in his career. It's not been for fighting. It's been for borderline hits. Rangers fans might want to remember he was the guy who knee on kneed Stepan a couple years ago (no suspension) which enraged Tortorella so much that he made it personal by attacking not the only the Pens organization as hypocritical but the league's protection of both Crosby and Malkin. Orpik has been getting away with borderline hits for a long time and that hit on Louie Eriksson just prior to Thornton's attack on him was another borderline hit IMO targeting the head of a player just getting over a previous concussion.

Orpik makes the hit and as per usual avoids the fight coming his way. I agree with Stock. If Orpik fights the thing is over. If Orpik were a clean player the **** would never happen. To me it's a chicken**** way to play. The Neal hit on Marchand is another. Neal's been suspended at least twice since becoming a Penguin. They had Cooke. They have Malkin who's slew foot a number of guys. This is the way that team plays.

Really what Thornton did was wrong. He deserves a suspension. Personally I think 15 games is way too much considering all the circumstances but I understand why Thornton did what he did. Guys like Orpik who deliberately hurt other players walk away from their actions all the time and won't stand up for it on the ice.

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12-20-2013, 08:55 AM
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Great example of EKane and Neil doing what hockey players do. Karlsson goes to low bridge EKane. EKane goes right back at him.

Few shifts later, Neil steps up for his teammates. EKane drops the gloves like a man.

No suspensions. No Concussions. They play on. I look at that and I see hockey.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7zOHBv2KgY

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12-20-2013, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRightWay View Post
Yeah, that's it. Simply Dylan McIlrath. Not the years of posting history you have here with a blatant bias towards fighting, most prominently perhaps your metaphoric ************ to drafting Randy McNaught. Notice how Kevin Weekes basically ignored PJ. Again, show me a Bure or Amonte or St. Louis or Naslund or Gartner or Modano or Vanek echoing this sentiment. Every time a player comes out with a vehement defense of fighting and "policing the game" and such it's always some guy like PJ Stock who would have never sniffed the NHL if fighting wasn't allowed. Post something objective if you want people to start to buy into your agenda. A guy whose career with virtually only based in fighting coming to the defense of fighting is not objective.
Messier pro fighting
the great one pro fighting
enough said.. your a smug smart a$$ go play PlayStation 4 and check out the fight mode. it is part of the game kid respect the game and the people who do it because the day it is gone is the day hockey dies because the stick work and injuries will be up 3000 percent in a month

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12-20-2013, 09:40 AM
  #10
TheRightWay
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Messier pro fighting
the great one pro fighting
enough said.. your a smug smart a$$ go play PlayStation 4 and check out the fight mode. it is part of the game kid respect the game and the people who do it because the day it is gone is the day hockey dies because the stick work and injuries will be up 3000 percent in a month
Please show me this quote from Messier that is even remotely on par with what PJ Stock is saying. Same with Gretzky.

Fighting is virtually non-existent in Sweden. Please show me exactly how hockey is dead there and how they are experiencing an injury crisis. I'm waiting.

Finally, if you're going to be condescending and call me a "kid" at least have the decency to use grammar that a ****ing 3rd grader is capable of. You don't capitalize anything and you type run-on sentences. You don't know the difference between "you're" and "your." You completely ignore punctuation. You're a grown adult? You sure as hell do a good job of not conducting yourself like one.

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Old
12-20-2013, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Messier pro fighting
the great one pro fighting
enough said.. your a smug smart a$$ go play PlayStation 4 and check out the fight mode. it is part of the game kid respect the game and the people who do it because the day it is gone is the day hockey dies because the stick work and injuries will be up 3000 percent in a month
Source?

"policing themselves" worked out real well in the Boston/Pittsburgh debacle from a couple weeks ago.

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12-20-2013, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Messier pro fighting
the great one pro fighting
enough said.. your a smug smart a$$ go play PlayStation 4 and check out the fight mode. it is part of the game kid respect the game and the people who do it because the day it is gone is the day hockey dies because the stick work and injuries will be up 3000 percent in a month
They're also dinosaurs. They grew up and played in an era where fighting and line brawls were the norm and there was no instigator. I would be shocked if any player from that era didn't support fighting.

Notice how no one has to write an article or make a thread about how scoring goals are good for hockey. You know, a crucial part of the game and winning it. All of you pro-fighting talking heads are scrambling to justify why YOUR favorite part of hockey is important and should always be a part of the game. Why is that? To me it reeks of fear and desperation clamouring to anyone who will listen in hopes that fighting will not go the way of the dodo.

The only retort you have is personal attacks and making fun of a generation becuase they play video games. A hilariously poor assessment of why people feel the way they do about fighting in today's NHL. Maybe you should write to P.J. and ask him if he thinks Playstation and the NHL video game series is the reason fighting has become less important to hockey. I'd love to hear his answer.

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12-20-2013, 09:57 AM
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So brooks is 100% the victim here and is innocent of all wrong doing because he refused to fight? he was and is a dirty hockey player and got what he deserved imo. did i want him to get a concussion no but his ass kicked yes.. Run around and bust up guys knees that ok with you guys cause it wasn't with a fist ok i understand now..

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12-20-2013, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
So brooks is 100% the victim here and is innocent of all wrong doing because he refused to fight? he was and is a dirty hockey player and got what he deserved imo. did i want him to get a concussion no but his ass kicked yes.. Run around and bust up guys knees that ok with you guys cause it wasn't with a fist ok i understand now..
Why is it that you think that because people don't think fighting prevents those kinds of incidents that they are then okay with it happening?


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12-20-2013, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Source?

"policing themselves" worked out real well in the Boston/Pittsburgh debacle from a couple weeks ago.
Yes, because no one gets hurt playing hockey where fighting is not allowed.

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12-20-2013, 10:04 AM
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Yes, because no one gets hurt playing hockey where fighting is not allowed.
Where does it end? Orpik deserved it, now Thornton deserves it. The guy that goes out and gets Thornton will deserve it next.

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12-20-2013, 10:09 AM
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Hockey is a sport where guys are on blades, carry spears, and have the the license to assault one another.

I don't get why all these emos whine and cry about the physicality of the game.

There are leagues that don't have fighting. There are leagues that don't hitting. It's either over in Europe, Amateur or women's leagues. Go watch that and be entertained if you are so anti-fighting.

Sick and tired of reading a bunch of emos try and sound as if they are intellectually superior.

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12-20-2013, 10:10 AM
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Yes, because no one gets hurt playing hockey where fighting is not allowed.
People are going to get hurt regardless. They're professional athletes, playing at high speed, on ice, carrying spears and wearing armor. The point is that fighting has no impact on whether injuries/dirty play happens or not.

The Boston/Pittsburgh game is in fact an excellent example of this fact. Boston has Thornton/Lucic/Chara and is a pretty tough squad overall, Thornton responded to the incident exactly as a pro-fighting fan would want and...

...yet it still happened.

If fighting was such an effective deterrent why did the the hit happen in the first place? Orpik should have been trembling in his boots about the potential retribution from some of the most feared fighters in the league. If fighting worked, we wouldn't have that example to discuss.

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12-20-2013, 10:10 AM
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Mikos87
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
Messier pro fighting
the great one pro fighting
enough said.. your a smug smart a$$ go play PlayStation 4 and check out the fight mode. it is part of the game kid respect the game and the people who do it because the day it is gone is the day hockey dies because the stick work and injuries will be up 3000 percent in a month
So do 98% of players playing as of 2012. That's just what hockey is.

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12-20-2013, 10:24 AM
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Guys,

If the insults and back-handed comments do not stop, I will start issuing infractions. Sick of it. If you don't want to read what someone writes, put them on ignore.

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12-20-2013, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by TheRightWay View Post
Yeah, that's it. Simply Dylan McIlrath. Not the years of posting history you have here with a blatant bias towards fighting, most prominently perhaps your metaphoric ************ to drafting Randy McNaught. Notice how Kevin Weekes basically ignored PJ. Again, show me a Bure or Amonte or St. Louis or Naslund or Gartner or Modano or Vanek echoing this sentiment. Every time a player comes out with a vehement defense of fighting and "policing the game" and such it's always some guy like PJ Stock who would have never sniffed the NHL if fighting wasn't allowed. Post something objective if you want people to start to buy into your agenda. A guy whose career with virtually only based in fighting coming to the defense of fighting is not objective.
Not sure why my post was deleted...I said absolutely nothing wrong.

But I'd like to clarify again that he is speaking to the wrong person entirely.

Don't think a post directed at me, which is completely false can't garner a response from me stating that he's referencing the wrong person should have be deleted.

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Old
12-20-2013, 11:10 AM
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who gives a **** what other leagues do?

this is the nhl.. the top league.. for men.. there is fighting.. there should be fighting..

fighting has other purposes then just taking cheapshots out.. it does that.. it can also set the tone for a game.. can swing momentum in the favor of your team win or lose..


geez i think ranger fans should be the ones who have seen it with their own eyes.. 2011 rangers led the league in fighting majors.. Every game teams knew they literally had to fight to win.. when you have a few guys on the team no one will **** with.. it makes everyone a few inches bigger.

now teams come in and its a field day, a vacation, creating their own personal memories in the garden..

to say fighting has no place in hockey is *********..

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12-20-2013, 11:15 AM
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Again, if you want to make a case for fighting, then show us attributed statistics that prove fighting actually increases overall player safety. Failing that, at the very least show us players in Sweden or Russia or Switzerland clamoring to have it instituted in their leagues.

Simply citing pro-fighting quotes from guys who play in a league that condones fighting are worthless. When they come from guys who largely were able to make their living in that league due to fighting, they are less than worthless.

EDIT: And I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how the Pittsburgh/Boston game is an argument FOR fighting. Boston is arguably the toughest, most feared team in the league; Thornton came out and predictably responded in the manner that the pro-fighting crowd tells us is sure to eliminate cheap shots; and yet THE HIT STILL HAPPENED. If fighting worked as a deterrent, this incident never would have occurred in the first place. I'm not really sure how you can argue otherwise.


Last edited by BrooklynRangersFan: 12-20-2013 at 11:25 AM.
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Old
12-20-2013, 11:23 AM
  #24
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There's a place for fighting in hockey, for those who want to fight.

To argue that it's not only a deterrent to cheap activity (which, I think it CLEARLY is not), but the best deterrent, is foolish and sophomoric.

You want the cheap hits to stop? The Neal Knee, the Bertuzzi like muggings? These suspensions need to be twice as long.

If Thorton had done what he did to Orpik in ANY OTHER LEAGUE IN THE WORLD, it's entirely probable he wouldn't play again this season. Maybe not ever.

The league needs to grow a set when it comes to disciplining players. Neal's knee needs to be half a season. Thornton needs to be done for the year.

Of course, there are probably CBA problems with this.

I promise, you threaten their jobs, this **** will stop. We don't need neanderthal-level intimidation tactics.

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12-20-2013, 11:29 AM
  #25
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"That stuff happens in a league where there is no fighting."

Yeah, and it also happened in this one.

The idea that fighting keeps people in check is an outdated one. How many times per year does an unwilling opponent get beat up?

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