HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Calgary Flames
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Complaints About Flames Being Ranked #4

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-09-2007, 08:43 PM
  #26
Shareefruck
Registered User
 
Shareefruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,406
vCash: 500
comparing team +/- is comparing even-strength play. Special teams (which Vancouver leads both teams in both categories in and is where they make up ground) is conveniently ignored here.

Shareefruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2007, 02:25 AM
  #27
ArizonaGreenTea
Registered User
 
ArizonaGreenTea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,185
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2agingmonk View Post
comparing team +/- is comparing even-strength play. Special teams (which Vancouver leads both teams in both categories in and is where they make up ground) is conveniently ignored here.
Even when you include special teams, the Flames are +19 and the Canucks are -4, as a team.

This is ridiculous anyway, I don't know where TSN comes up with their calculations for who's the better team, but I do believe there are alot of subjective and inconsistant elements used. It's more likely that the person who wrote the article watched a couple Flames games (all wins, of course) and maybe one Canucks game (a loss) before writing his article.

ArizonaGreenTea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-10-2007, 12:23 PM
  #28
puck_08
Registered User
 
puck_08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 655
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sticknrink View Post
Even if he is using indiv. player value and indiv. stats / +,- those things dont' change that suddenly to vault certain teams up/down 5-7 spots. Teams slowly get worse / better in indiv. stats week by week and if this is the criteria than the pr should have teams shifting as slow accordingly.
They shift quickly because ALL of the injured player's stats get taken out of the formula if they are out or the lineup.. so if Anahiem loses Pronger, all of the sudden 40 points, +21, etc, is taken out of the team's total. That will drop a team for sure..

Quote:
Originally Posted by TaraLeone
This is ridiculous anyway, I don't know where TSN comes up with their calculations for who's the better team, but I do believe there are alot of subjective and inconsistant elements used. It's more likely that the person who wrote the article watched a couple Flames games (all wins, of course) and maybe one Canucks game (a loss) before writing his article.
Or maybe it's the statistical explanation he gave in his article!
Did you even read it??

Just to help you out with some more stats...
Vancouver has 2.42 goals for per game, and 2.56 goals against, Calgary has 3.05goals for per game, and 2.54 goals against.. Thats -0.14 differential for Vancouver, and +0.51 for Calgary.

How can you expect to be called a better team based on stats, if you get scored on more than you score on other teams??? I don't think that's called "subjective and inconsistant elements".

Or you could look at points earned/games played.. where Vancouver has 49 points in 43 games played, while calgary has 48 points in 41 games played.. pretty close, but calgary has the edge (I don't remember what they were last week.. but probably pretty similar)

The only way to put Vancouver higher up, would be to give position in the standings a much, much higher priority than individual statistics.. which of course, would be pretty much like looking at the standings, which you can obviously do on your own..


The standings are obviously more important than the "power rankings" anyway, but thats not what we're talking about here...

puck_08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2007, 01:22 AM
  #29
natural420*
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 853
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2agingmonk View Post
Special teams (which Vancouver leads both teams in both categories in and is where they make up ground) is conveniently ignored here.
go home with that "conviently" crap. nobody cares. you wanna throw every stat in the league that can compare the three teams go ahead, but dont say its "conviently ignored" just to make it seem like were trying to hide something. i think we all know who the better team is/will be at the end of the season.

nice try though junior

natural420* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2007, 10:16 AM
  #30
millax
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,333
vCash: 500
Is it just me, or is using the +/- of certain positions a strange way of proving a team is better..

I especially enjoy how they use Petr Nedved's -20 to prove the Oilers are not as good of a team as the Flames or Nucks at RW, even though that -20 came when Petr was a Flyer.

The TSN rankings are complete garbage. Calgary has done nothing to prove they should be 4th ahead of Vancouver by such a large margin. There could be an arguement that Calgary deserves to be 10th if Vancouver was 11th..

But anywho..

millax is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2007, 11:32 AM
  #31
Flames4EVER
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 99
vCash: 500

Flames4EVER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2007, 12:34 PM
  #32
puck_08
Registered User
 
puck_08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 655
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by millax View Post
Is it just me, or is using the +/- of certain positions a strange way of proving a team is better..

I especially enjoy how they use Petr Nedved's -20 to prove the Oilers are not as good of a team as the Flames or Nucks at RW, even though that -20 came when Petr was a Flyer.

The TSN rankings are complete garbage. Calgary has done nothing to prove they should be 4th ahead of Vancouver by such a large margin. There could be an arguement that Calgary deserves to be 10th if Vancouver was 11th..

But anywho..
yeah, +/- is maybe acceptable beacuse they use all player's numbers so in the end its more of a team number.. But if they use +/- stats from another team, that makes a little less sense..

TSN's rankings don't nessesarily indicate better (success wise) teams... but who is more likely to succeed based on their players.. Since Vancouver's success (on close games) comes (mainly) from Luongo, thats probably why they are so much lower.. Maybe TSN should throw in a "Luongo Factor" to move them up..

puck_08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2007, 01:17 PM
  #33
macho232
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Calgary
Posts: 369
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HuMz View Post
Edmonton obiously has been playing like **** the past month, but how is Calgary any different then Vancouver?

Calgary has only led the division for 5 games this year.......yet edmonton the team that has no arugment has led it for 35, how does that work?
The Flames have been behind in games played all year, wining percentage they've lead for more then 5 games and have the current lead. Oilers suck!!!

macho232 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-11-2007, 08:15 PM
  #34
ArizonaGreenTea
Registered User
 
ArizonaGreenTea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,185
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by puck_08 View Post
TSN's rankings don't nessesarily indicate better (success wise) teams... but who is more likely to succeed based on their players...
Most likely might not be the way to put it, but a basis of how well any paticular team will/may likely do based on their players in the second half. Even then... 4th??? As a Flames fan, that's complete BS. The whole NW is so close right now, that placing any team that far ahead just vastly overrates one team, while not doing any justice for the other 4 that have proven to be tough competitors.

Quote:
Did you even read it??
If you mean the page where Cullen answers concerns based upon the power rankings he chose, then yes, somewhat. Please forgive me if I didn't read the whole thing, and only skimmed through the parts which I did read. There are some things that are just not worth wasting your time on, and posting inane messages on an internet forum ranks about 3 scores higher on the Worth TL's Time Power Rankings.


Quote:
go home with that "conviently" crap. nobody cares. you wanna throw every stat in the league that can compare the three teams go ahead, but dont say its "conviently ignored" just to make it seem like were trying to hide something. i think we all know who the better team is/will be at the end of the season.
In his fairness he's talking about a stat that is commonly brought up. Every game I watch, at least once they bring up a team's overall PP/PK preformance, it's also brought up every pre-game report they do in the Herald, while they unfairly give the special teams edge to the other team pretty consistantly.

A player's preformance on the PP/PK should be brought up if they're doing power rankings based on players, and if it isn't then it's a pretty large oversight imo.

ArizonaGreenTea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 12:38 AM
  #35
natural420*
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 853
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TaraLeone View Post

In his fairness he's talking about a stat that is commonly brought up. Every game I watch, at least once they bring up a team's overall PP/PK preformance, it's also brought up every pre-game report they do in the Herald, while they unfairly give the special teams edge to the other team pretty consistantly.

yes, but nobody needs to say "convieniently left" out just to make it sound like it was left out on purpose. iam not denying the stat, just the way this guy presented it was kinda lame

besides. after tonights game i think its undeniable anyways. calgary ahead of vancouver by one point with 2 games at hand. when it all comes down to it, this entire discussion comes down to the standings and only the standings

natural420* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 09:21 AM
  #36
ArizonaGreenTea
Registered User
 
ArizonaGreenTea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,185
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by natural420 View Post
yes, but nobody needs to say "convieniently left" out just to make it sound like it was left out on purpose. iam not denying the stat, just the way this guy presented it was kinda lame
For all we know they could've left special teams stats out on purpose, likely because it was too difficult (inconvienient) to factor in. Someone may have forgotten about its importance, or the folks at TSN needed an excuse to bring Calgary up to 4th in the first week of the year. But I'm just throwing stones in random directions here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by natural420 View Post
besides. after tonights game i think its undeniable anyways. calgary ahead of vancouver by one point with 2 games at hand. when it all comes down to it, this entire discussion comes down to the standings and only the standings
Go Flames, and thanks to the Avs for not giving their best. I speak on behalf of all Flames fans when I say thank you to the whole team for giving the Flames one of their easier wins this season. I also thank the refs for actually making bad calls in our favour, and while some of those bad calls may have put our team short one, we scored on those penalties anyway.

ArizonaGreenTea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-12-2007, 12:24 PM
  #37
abracanada
Registered User
 
abracanada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,574
vCash: 500
The question I have, if you get right down to it, is this:

Calgary - GF 132 GA 109
Vancouver - GF 109 GA 116


Special teams or not, how could you rank a team like Vancouver in the top ten, when they don't even score as many as they let in? A recipe for disaster if I have ever seen one.

abracanada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-13-2007, 12:30 AM
  #38
Flames4EVER
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 99
vCash: 500
It's all homerism from the Canuck fans...they won 7 in a row, so they shall be ranked as god in the NHL.... .....just like the weatherman said this year...B.C. BLOWS...

Flames4EVER is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:31 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.