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Old
12-22-2013, 10:37 AM
  #251
otto bond
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Originally Posted by Prendan Brust View Post
Murray is at -11 after only 21 games played. Consistent with what we see on the ice. He's a liability on the ice. He has to be replaced as fast as possible.

I understand the habs need a bit of toughness on the blue line but not at this cost.
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Originally Posted by pine View Post
Habs been outscored 14-1 when Murray is on the ice.

This is not a joke. It's pathetic really.
I would like this plus minus to be scored differently. Point is that it don't always tell the real story. Now I will not sit here and say that Murray is a stud back there but you can put all the blame on him. Now would I love an upgrade?You bet ya. Time to call up Tinordi?

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12-22-2013, 10:37 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by pine View Post
Habs been outscored 14-1 when Murray is on the ice.

This is not a joke. It's pathetic really.
They've also been outscored in 16 games. It happens

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12-22-2013, 10:45 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Habsawce View Post
They've also been outscored in 16 games. It happens
Yeah, it happens when we put out players that get outscored 14-1 while being on the ice

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12-22-2013, 10:53 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Yeah, it happens when we put out players that get outscored 14-1 while being on the ice
I do agree but at the same time, you can't put all that on Murray. Look at Prust on that PP goal, play soft on the blue line, same with Eller and Bourque on the play that lead to PK's penalty. Diaz hasn't won to many battles down low either. I could go on and on. Would I like a better Dman? Yes.

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12-22-2013, 10:56 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by otto bond View Post
I do agree but at the same time, you can't put all that on Murray. Look at Prust on that PP goal, play soft on the blue line, same with Eller and Bourque on the play that lead to PK's penalty. Diaz hasn't won to many battles down low either. I could go on and on. Would I like a better Dman? Yes.
Nobody is ignoring the other players. It goes both ways as well, there have been many, many times where Murray has been bailed out by his teammates that didn't show up on the scoresheet. Over the long run, these things tend to even out and you're left with a pretty good understanding of what the players bring as individuals to a team. Murray brings nothing that helps us win. It's very clear at this point. We can all argue semantics til we're blue in the face, but 14 to 1? Come on, now. If those were Bouillon's numbers or DD's numbers or Gionta's numbers, we'd be crucifying them.

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12-22-2013, 11:07 AM
  #256
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So that game last night was a glaring look ino how MT is really not a very good coach. Up 3-0 and he sits back and puts the brakes on the boys offense. We end up in OT everyone knows the 3 oal lead in hockey is the worst lead to try ad hold on to. MT got shown again last night how NOT to coach eve against lesser teams.

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12-22-2013, 11:08 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
There is also a fairly large amount of them obviously trying to compensate for something it seems.


Anyways Bourque is far worse than Desharnais at this point, what has he even done this season? In fact, Desharnais has been one of our best players lately (he's closing in on Gallagher and Eller, only 3 points away), he's playing well, like 2 years ago, because he does have talent. Perception of him reaaally suffered because he entered the season in a slump.

Bourque? Well he just sucks, always has since he's here except for a few games (after which he got injured, AGAIN). I mean he's not a complete liability defensively sure, he's not good either. He produces no offense too, he's just there. He doesn't really hit, he doesn't really fights and nobody is scared of him. Basically Latendresse that isn't french, so nobody cares (there would be a hate festival going on here if he were, guaranteed 100%)



I kind of feel bad for losing faith in him - I thought he'd have to be traded to bounce back but it seems he's able to bring it together with us. Good stuff.
Bourque was our best forward in last year's playoffs. He was a beast out there. Bourque has a very palatable contract and he's basically a top of the line 3rd liner who can play on a 1st or 2nd line in case of injuries and who can score 20-30 goals. Plus he is one of the few who has size.

He has not produced much this year but I'd cut him some slack because of all the injuries he got. Which he might still be playing through.

Every team could use guys like Bourque, AK on their 3rd line, IMO. Good bang for your bucks for players who can fill in on top lines when injuries occur. People will say they float and are inconsistent but if they were consistent they would not be paid 3M and be on 2nd or 3rd lines. Fill the line up with inconsistent 20-30 goals guys and you'll have a good team because one of them will be doing something on any given game.

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12-22-2013, 11:14 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by E = CH˛ View Post
Bourque was our best forward in last year's playoffs. He was a beast out there. Bourque has a very palatable contract and he's basically a top of the line 3rd liner who can play on a 1st or 2nd line in case of injuries and who can score 20-30 goals. Plus he is one of the few who has size.

He has not produced much this year but I'd cut him some slack because of all the injuries he got. Which he might still be playing through.

Every team could use guys like Bourque, AK on their 3rd line, IMO. Good bang for your bucks for players who can fill in on top lines when injuries occur. People will say they float and are inconsistent but if they were consistent they would not be paid 3M and be on 2nd or 3rd lines. Fill the line up with inconsistent 20-30 goals guys and you'll have a good team because one of them will be doing something on any given game.
The 'inconsistent scorer' narrative is a tired one. What consistent scorers exist in this league not named crosby or ovechkin?

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Old
12-22-2013, 11:19 AM
  #259
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Its Murray's fault we wont finish the season 98-0.

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Old
12-22-2013, 11:24 AM
  #260
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Its Murray's fault we wont finish the season 98-0.
That's exactly what we're saying. Bravo for debating like a big boy.

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12-22-2013, 11:39 AM
  #261
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Originally Posted by 29dryden29 View Post
So that game last night was a glaring look ino how MT is really not a very good coach. Up 3-0 and he sits back and puts the brakes on the boys offense. We end up in OT everyone knows the 3 oal lead in hockey is the worst lead to try ad hold on to. MT got shown again last night how NOT to coach eve against lesser teams.
I don't think Therrien put the brakes on. I think it was the same failure to motivate that we saw with Jacques Martin, when the Habs got a lead and then went into hibernation, finally blowing the game in the 3rd period. It's a collective mental letdown that's supposed to be counteracted by a coach or captain, but ultimately comes down to a team culture of wanting to win. That's the real 'character' that Bergevin should be looking for.

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12-22-2013, 11:41 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
That's exactly what we're saying. Bravo for debating like a big boy.
Gee thanks. Just upgraded from rubber sheets too. Maybe I should just decide to pick a player and blame him like others are doing too?

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12-22-2013, 11:45 AM
  #263
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Gee thanks. Just upgraded from rubber sheets too. Maybe I should just decide to pick a player and blame him like others are doing too?
Maybe bring a rational argument to the table?

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12-22-2013, 11:46 AM
  #264
Dr Gonzo
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In terms of goals for/against at 5v5, Douglas Murray is the worst defenseman in the NHL and it's nowhere close.

http://www.extraskater.com/players/d...sort=goals_pct


Anyways, most know he's brutal, but we're stuck with him for now.

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12-22-2013, 11:46 AM
  #265
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
Nobody is ignoring the other players. It goes both ways as well, there have been many, many times where Murray has been bailed out by his teammates that didn't show up on the scoresheet. Over the long run, these things tend to even out and you're left with a pretty good understanding of what the players bring as individuals to a team. Murray brings nothing that helps us win. It's very clear at this point. We can all argue semantics til we're blue in the face, but 14 to 1? Come on, now. If those were Bouillon's numbers or DD's numbers or Gionta's numbers, we'd be crucifying them.
Didn't realize Murray's numbers were that terrible. Yikes. I'm curious how many of those 14 goals occurred in his first few weeks, when he looked awful. He's looked better recently, but I wonder if the numbers reflect that.

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12-22-2013, 11:49 AM
  #266
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
The 'inconsistent scorer' narrative is a tired one. What consistent scorers exist in this league not named crosby or ovechkin?
I personnally don't mind Bourque, but it's frustrating to watch completely disapear for long stretchs. Even if he's a streaky scorer like pretty much every scorer, the fact that he stops using his physical tool and his speed to create chances is what is the most hard to watch. He has everything you need to make things happens but yet, he doesn't use them a lot. That's what is annoying with.

But eh, he's making 3M and plays on the 3rd line. There are worst things going with this team than him.

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12-22-2013, 11:50 AM
  #267
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Nobody is ignoring the other players. It goes both ways as well, there have been many, many times where Murray has been bailed out by his teammates that didn't show up on the scoresheet. Over the long run, these things tend to even out and you're left with a pretty good understanding of what the players bring as individuals to a team. Murray brings nothing that helps us win. It's very clear at this point. We can all argue semantics til we're blue in the face, but 14 to 1? Come on, now. If those were Bouillon's numbers or DD's numbers or Gionta's numbers, we'd be crucifying them.
The nice thing about the team being 14 to 1 with Murray on the ice is that it will make Tinordi look like a huge upgrade when he joins the team... and there will be less pressure on him. The media will be able to say, 'At least he is better than Murray.'

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12-22-2013, 11:52 AM
  #268
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Maybe bring a rational argument to the table?
Sure will. Thank you for your amazing leadership and respect.

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12-22-2013, 11:55 AM
  #269
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Sure will. Thank you for your amazing leadership and respect.
So now it's disrespectful to ask someone to bring an actual argument to a hockey discussion? Okey dokey.

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12-22-2013, 11:56 AM
  #270
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The nice thing about the team being 14 to 1 with Murray on the ice is that it will make Tinordi look like a huge upgrade when he joins the team... and there will be less pressure on him. The media will be able to say, 'At least he is better than Murray.'
True. The problem is, Murray was supposed to be playing part time, but he's had to play more. Bouillion isn't a much better option, but at least he's more mobile.

The team needs a little more of an upgrade on the 3rd line and 3rd pair. Which could be done in season. That's beyond the obvious needs up front.

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12-22-2013, 11:58 AM
  #271
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So now it's disrespectful to ask someone to bring an actual argument to a hockey discussion? Okey dokey.
Pretty sure I didn't say that. But maybe I need to work my way up to the big boy pants I guess. My apologies.

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12-22-2013, 12:15 PM
  #272
Prendan Brust
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Originally Posted by Dr Gonzo View Post
In terms of goals for/against at 5v5, Douglas Murray is the worst defenseman in the NHL and it's nowhere close.

http://www.extraskater.com/players/d...sort=goals_pct


Anyways, most know he's brutal, but we're stuck with him for now.
Damn, that is an eye opener. Among the 10 worst in the goals for/against category, 2 players are with habs (2 of the top 3 in fact). Among that top ten, they're the only ones belonging to a playoff team. In fact, the next player on that list belonging to a playoff team is Alexander Edler at 25.

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12-22-2013, 12:19 PM
  #273
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Couldn't watch the game, but from what I understand, DD's our saviour, right?

Il est né le divin enfant



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12-22-2013, 12:25 PM
  #274
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Before condemning Murray, I'd like to see who was covering who. I'm not sure about this, but at least two goals were because a Nashville forward was left wide open in the slot, and I don't think either was Murray's assignment.
You're not going to get bites on this line, because no one who is adamantly opposed to keeping Murray on the team is going to go back and actually look at video when +/- and fancy stats tell them all they need to know. No need to understand what actually happened, you just have to be able to interpret the spreadsheet afterwards...

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12-22-2013, 12:28 PM
  #275
Dr Gonzo
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
You're not going to get bites on this line, because no one who is adamantly opposed to keeping Murray on the team is going to go back and actually look at video when +/- and fancy stats tell them all they need to know. No need to understand what actually happened, you just have to be able to interpret the spreadsheet afterwards...
Silly. Your eyes should be able to confirm that he's terrible at defending.

Maybe you need to test your eyes.

Hell, we shouldn't even have to bring advanced stats into this, but some people have their heads firmly planted into the ground.

p.s. I bet I watch more hockey than you. Want to compare notes? I watch every Habs game twice, if not three or four times, plus I watch 2-3 other games per night if the schedule permits.

Take your "they don't watch hockey" insult and shove it, lol

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Couldn't watch the game, but from what I understand, DD's our saviour, right?

That's all sorts of awesome. Great work as usual Blou.

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