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Old
12-22-2013, 10:14 AM
  #1
Maelmoor
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Grade our players so far

Took the idea from a thread of the main forums, how do you grade the players so far?

Only took players with 10+ games

A+ Stamkos (Played his best hockey before his injury)
A + Bishop (Been phenomenal and saved us many points)
A Hedman (Getting better and better, a true key player)
A MSL (A bit up and down but still such an important player, provides leadership)
A Gudas (A beast..in more than one way)
A Filppula (Proved most of us wrong)
A- Killorn (Works hard and produces points)
A- T.Johnson (Misses a lot of chances but is a very interesting player)
B+ Carle (Better than last year, plays solid)
B Kucherov (Looking good, nice shot, not that many games played)
B Thompson (You know what you get, 100% effort and some points)
B Lindbäck (Shaky start, been solid the last month, good backup)
B- Palat (Doing well, some rookie mistakes but that is fair)
B- Sustr (Same as Palat)
B- Brown (Not so many games but good work effort)
C+ Brewer (Still slow but better than last two seasons)
C Malone (Did a good job in front of the goal but too much injuried)
C Salo (Slow but alright)
C Crombeen (Decent fourth-liner)
C- Connolly (Small amount of games but didn't impress, tried thou)
D Panik (Too many mistakes, even for a young guy)
D Purcell (Disappointing, too streaky, floats around at times)
D Barberio (Not been good enough)
D Labrie (Meh..)


Last edited by Maelmoor: 12-22-2013 at 12:23 PM.
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Old
12-22-2013, 10:27 AM
  #2
Felonious Python
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I'm real big on Palat, so I'd have him at like a B+. No major shifts from your list though.

Tyler Johnson sort of reminds me of Stamkos earlier in his career. There was a period of time where he was getting all these great chances, but the puck would just not go in the net. He got over that of course and with MSL and Stammer himself in the organization, TJ should be able to as well.

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Old
12-22-2013, 11:03 AM
  #3
The Macho Man
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I think our only As are Stamkos, Bish, and Hedman, and I think our only Ds are Labrie and Connolly, but I'm big on packing the median.

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Old
12-22-2013, 11:05 AM
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Sk8M8
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MSL got a bit of heat . . . Kind of before this win-streak. I'd say he's more than proved himself over the last 10 or so. He had a couple of mediocre games after his 1000th game celebration, but again, he's played well IMO for the last while.

To think that Tampa has fought back to be competitive without Stamkos is pretty awesome.

What grade do you give MSL?

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12-22-2013, 11:17 AM
  #5
MattM92
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A+ Stamkos - Obvious reasons
A+ Bishop - Obvious reasons
A Hedman - Has simply taken over games but also had a couple of stinkers
A Gudas - One of our best defensemen every night
A Filppula - He's been unbelievable, always responsible
A MSL - Had a smelly stretch but he's leading the troops now, love when he's on his game
A- Kucherov - Been possibly our most impressive player so far (besides Stamkos)
B+ Carle - Hasn't been flashy at all but he is certainly dependable
B+ Palat - He has been a force on every line he's been on. Backbone.
B+ Sustr - Pleasantly surprised. His reach is amazing, frustrating to play against
B Killorn - Started strong then had a bad stretch, starting to heat up again
B T.Johnson - His speed is game changing but I'd like to see him bury some more
B Lindbäck - Been a good backup. Doesn't steal games but doesn't cost you either
B- Brown - Solid energy guy, great speed, same knock as Johnson
B- Thompson - Very happy with his game except for his ineptitude with clearing zone
B- Brewer - I think he's been phenomenal in his limited minutes.
C Malone - Hated him in top 6, liked him in bottom 6.
C Crombeen - Does what you'd expect him to do. Eat 8 minutes, play hard.
C- Panik - I see the talent, just needs to put it together
C- Purcell - Will disappear for stretches, needs to be more consistent
D+ Salo - Slow, can't keep pucks in on the point, only looks good with Hedman
D Barberio - Same as Panik
D Labrie - I don't see him as an NHLer
D Connolly - Not impressed
F- Stamkos' tibia - Goddamnit

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12-22-2013, 12:00 PM
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Sk8M8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattM92 View Post
A MSL - Had a smelly stretch but he's leading the troops now, love when he's on his game
That's what I'd give him too but I wanted a pro's opinion!

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Old
12-22-2013, 12:23 PM
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Maelmoor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk8M8 View Post
MSL got a bit of heat . . . Kind of before this win-streak. I'd say he's more than proved himself over the last 10 or so. He had a couple of mediocre games after his 1000th game celebration, but again, he's played well IMO for the last while.

To think that Tampa has fought back to be competitive without Stamkos is pretty awesome.

What grade do you give MSL?
Damn how could I forget MSL But agree on the A

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Old
12-22-2013, 12:34 PM
  #8
Werewolf
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S F'ing Y - A+
Cooper - A

A+ Stamkos
A + Bishop
A Hedman
A- MSL
A- Gudas
A- Filppula
B+ Killorn
A- T.Johnson
B Carle
B Kucherov
B+ Thompson
C+ Lindbäck
B+ Palat
B+ Sustr
B Brown
B Brewer
C- Malone
B Salo
C+ Crombeen
D+ Connolly
C Panik
C Purcell
C+ Barberio
D+ Labrie

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Old
12-22-2013, 02:14 PM
  #9
HoseEmDown
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I know most people don't like my opinions and this is another that many will disagree with. I don't see Stamkos and Bishop as A+, the only player I think is A+ is Hedman.

Here's why I don't think Stamkos is an A+ : yes he's putting up points and was playing well before he got hurt, the thing is he didn't improve in the faceoff circle, his play in his own zone was still weak and he could improve his playmaking still. The goal scoring will always be there but the other aspects of his game could use some fine tuning.

Why I think Bishop is not an A+ : He's been great most of the season and who knows where we'd be without him but he's had some poor starts as well. There's been 5 games where he's been light up pretty well, I know you can't expect every game to be standing on his head but he needs to show more consistency down the stretch. Elite goalies maybe get lit up 5 games a season not in the first third of it. It's nitpicking but if his trend continues he will get lit up 8-9 more times this season which will be 13-14 total, just not good.

Hedman is the only A+ : He's taken the next step in his career this season, he's playing the type of D we've been used to from him but his offense has taken off this year. He still has a game where he makes you shake your head but those haven't been as frequent as in the past. If he keeps this play up he will get some Norris votes for sure.

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Old
12-22-2013, 02:27 PM
  #10
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A++ Stamkos - unreal
A+ Hedman - best d man by far
A Bishop - wow
A MSL - leader on ice
B+ Filppula - start was the good but overall can be better
B+ Kucherov - pretty impressed how he's came in
B+ Carle - solid minute eater, backs up Radko greatly
B+ Palat - pretty solid all around, not missing a beat
B+ Sustr - real solid, could play more
B+ TJ - pretty good
B+ Brown - just like Palat, hard worker
B Gudas - like the physicality and minutes he's playing
B Lindbäck - ok
B Salo - pretty steady most of the time
B- Killorn - expecting more
B- Brewer - pretty solid at times, pretty boneheaded other times
C+ Purcell - same as Killorn
C Thompson - 3C is reaching but has filled up his spot
C Barberio - quite ok but cant really outplay anyone out of team
C- Malone - useless
C- Crombeen - useless
D Panik - ****ups
D Connolly - who?
D- Labrie - useless

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Old
12-22-2013, 02:29 PM
  #11
MattM92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoseEmDown View Post
I know most people don't like my opinions and this is another that many will disagree with. I don't see Stamkos and Bishop as A+, the only player I think is A+ is Hedman.

Here's why I don't think Stamkos is an A+ : yes he's putting up points and was playing well before he got hurt, the thing is he didn't improve in the faceoff circle, his play in his own zone was still weak and he could improve his playmaking still. The goal scoring will always be there but the other aspects of his game could use some fine tuning.

Why I think Bishop is not an A+ : He's been great most of the season and who knows where we'd be without him but he's had some poor starts as well. There's been 5 games where he's been light up pretty well, I know you can't expect every game to be standing on his head but he needs to show more consistency down the stretch. Elite goalies maybe get lit up 5 games a season not in the first third of it. It's nitpicking but if his trend continues he will get lit up 8-9 more times this season which will be 13-14 total, just not good.

Hedman is the only A+ : He's taken the next step in his career this season, he's playing the type of D we've been used to from him but his offense has taken off this year. He still has a game where he makes you shake your head but those haven't been as frequent as in the past. If he keeps this play up he will get some Norris votes for sure.
I see where you're coming from, but I don't see how it's fair to credit Hedman for improving and having his best season so far but then criticize Stamkos and Bishop for not being perfect while also having their best seasons of their careers.

Sure, Stamkos still has some things to work on, but there's not a player that doesn't. Crosby is putting up 1.5 points per game, or something like that, and is known as a pretty solid defensive player, but there are still things for him to work on. Stamkos has evolved his offensive game to an unbelievable level and he was the best player in the league when he went down. His faceoffs needed work for sure but I disagree that his defensive play was weak. He's never going to be Patrice Bergeron but he wasn't a liability like he was last season. And his playmaking? His passing is very underrated simply because he is the finisher on the team. We don't get to see his playmaking very often because he's the one cranking the puck into the net.

Bishop has definitely had a couple of games he'd like back, but also like you said, every goalie does. It's just not possible for a goalie to stand on his head 82 times a season. But he has put together far and away his best season of his young career and should be credited for it the same way Hedman is.

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Old
12-22-2013, 03:47 PM
  #12
HoseEmDown
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Originally Posted by MattM92 View Post
I see where you're coming from, but I don't see how it's fair to credit Hedman for improving and having his best season so far but then criticize Stamkos and Bishop for not being perfect while also having their best seasons of their careers.

Sure, Stamkos still has some things to work on, but there's not a player that doesn't. Crosby is putting up 1.5 points per game, or something like that, and is known as a pretty solid defensive player, but there are still things for him to work on. Stamkos has evolved his offensive game to an unbelievable level and he was the best player in the league when he went down. His faceoffs needed work for sure but I disagree that his defensive play was weak. He's never going to be Patrice Bergeron but he wasn't a liability like he was last season. And his playmaking? His passing is very underrated simply because he is the finisher on the team. We don't get to see his playmaking very often because he's the one cranking the puck into the net.

Bishop has definitely had a couple of games he'd like back, but also like you said, every goalie does. It's just not possible for a goalie to stand on his head 82 times a season. But he has put together far and away his best season of his young career and should be credited for it the same way Hedman is.
Like I said some of it was nitpicking so there isn't a lot to complain about. I know Stamkos will never be confused with Bergeron, there were times when his line was pinned in our zone for long stretches. He also lost plenty of draws in the zone which lead to being pinned in and lost a lot of draws on the PP which lead to an easy clear. Just a few things he could improve, that's why I gave Hedman a higher score because he fixed the holes in his game. The playmaker part is that I prefer he shoot then pass because he's lethal but when he does he forces it a lot to St. Louis rather then look for someone else.

I'm not hating on Bishop I just want to see more from him before I give him a higher grade. He wasn't very good on our west coast swing so I'd like to see how he does the next time we go west. I'm happy with him so far if he shows more consistency the second half and on the road he'll be an easy A+.

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Old
12-22-2013, 06:04 PM
  #13
Maelmoor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoseEmDown View Post
I know most people don't like my opinions and this is another that many will disagree with. I don't see Stamkos and Bishop as A+, the only player I think is A+ is Hedman.

Here's why I don't think Stamkos is an A+ : yes he's putting up points and was playing well before he got hurt, the thing is he didn't improve in the faceoff circle, his play in his own zone was still weak and he could improve his playmaking still. The goal scoring will always be there but the other aspects of his game could use some fine tuning.

Why I think Bishop is not an A+ : He's been great most of the season and who knows where we'd be without him but he's had some poor starts as well. There's been 5 games where he's been light up pretty well, I know you can't expect every game to be standing on his head but he needs to show more consistency down the stretch. Elite goalies maybe get lit up 5 games a season not in the first third of it. It's nitpicking but if his trend continues he will get lit up 8-9 more times this season which will be 13-14 total, just not good.

Hedman is the only A+ : He's taken the next step in his career this season, he's playing the type of D we've been used to from him but his offense has taken off this year. He still has a game where he makes you shake your head but those haven't been as frequent as in the past. If he keeps this play up he will get some Norris votes for sure.
Stamkos is one of the best players in the world and he played like one of the best players in the world before his injury. Even if he scored lot of points last season I think he has played even better this autumn, improving his defensive play foremost. I agree that he has things to improve but not even Gretzky was perfect.

As for Bishop, I didn't expect this kind of performance from him, so I have been surprised in a positive way, I can just think back on all games where he saved us points. He is also second of all goalies in wins, he is third in GAA and third in Sv% of the goalies that played as many games as him. Sure he had some poor games but all goalies have those and what matters to me is how he responded, he always bounced back and that to me is the sign of a great goalie.

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Old
12-22-2013, 06:20 PM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoseEmDown View Post
Why I think Bishop is not an A+ : He's been great most of the season and who knows where we'd be without him but he's had some poor starts as well. There's been 5 games where he's been light up pretty well, I know you can't expect every game to be standing on his head but he needs to show more consistency down the stretch. Elite goalies maybe get lit up 5 games a season not in the first third of it. It's nitpicking but if his trend continues he will get lit up 8-9 more times this season which will be 13-14 total, just not good.
I think you are overthinking it a little bit here.

I took a look at the game splits selection on NHL.com:
Bishop: 5 games under .900 SV% (27 gp)
Rask: 5 games under .900 SV% (28 gp)
Price: 7 games under .900 SV% (30 gp)
Harding: 2 games under .900 SV% (27 gp)

Those are the frontrunners for the Vezina right now and outside of Harding, all three had multiple games off. And in Bishops case I know that he was considered pretty strong in the Chicago overtime win, while only having 0.884 SV%.

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Old
12-22-2013, 06:28 PM
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Doctor Drej
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i can never tell if hoseemdown is serious or just trolling.

think back to the days of roloson rocking a solid .880 for an entire season, dan ellis and his soul crushing softies, mike smith roaming the entire defensive zone, johan holmqvist looking clueless, drunken john grahame...etc.

we'd have KILLED to have ben in those days. how soon we forget?

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12-22-2013, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Sk8M8 View Post
MSL got a bit of heat . . . Kind of before this win-streak. I'd say he's more than proved himself over the last 10 or so. He had a couple of mediocre games after his 1000th game celebration, but again, he's played well IMO for the last while.

To think that Tampa has fought back to be competitive without Stamkos is pretty awesome.

What grade do you give MSL?
From about the 15th game of the season to about 30~ St.louis was nowhere near his normal play, however the play from before and after those points were exceptional. I'd say his high is an A+ and his low was a C, he's at about a "B" for this season by his standards.

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Old
12-22-2013, 11:46 PM
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IMO Save % is almost as bad a +/- for others in rating how a goalie did. Much better would be Scoring Chance %.

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Old
12-23-2013, 01:03 AM
  #18
Rschmitz
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I'm not big on rankings, but the guys who've stood out to me from what I expected

Brown ++
Bishop/Gudas/Filpulla/Brewer +
Panik/Purcell/Lindback -
Connolly --

Everybody else is pretty much in line with how I thought they would perform.

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Old
12-23-2013, 01:09 AM
  #19
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I like the guy a lot but I don't feel good about giving Marty more than "B".


Stammer A
Bishop A
Hedman A-
Filpp B+
Carle B+
MSL B
T Johnson B
Thompson B
Gudas B
Salo B
Brewer B-
Killorn B-
Purcell C+
Panik C+
Barberio C+

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12-23-2013, 08:19 AM
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HoseEmDown
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I'm not big on rankings, but the guys who've stood out to me from what I expected

Brown ++
Bishop/Gudas/Filpulla/Brewer +
Panik/Purcell/Lindback -
Connolly --

Everybody else is pretty much in line with how I thought they would perform.
Lindback a minus really? Can you care to explain? He has been getting better and better every game, just like he has in the past he gets better as the season goes on. Take out the bad game vs Pittsburgh and the San Jose one where the whole team didn't show up and every game he's been under 3 GA and has given us a chance to win. His win lose record sucks but he's gotten no goal support in his starts. For a backup he's been everything we need lately.

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12-23-2013, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoseEmDown View Post
Lindback a minus really? Can you care to explain? He has been getting better and better every game, just like he has in the past he gets better as the season goes on. Take out the bad game vs Pittsburgh and the San Jose one where the whole team didn't show up and every game he's been under 3 GA and has given us a chance to win. His win lose record sucks but he's gotten no goal support in his starts. For a backup he's been everything we need lately.
.889 save percentage probably has something to do with that...

He's been much better lately, which I readily admit, but he started off the season very shaky. I hope he puts it together and we consistently get that type of effort from him, though.

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Old
12-23-2013, 09:24 AM
  #22
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My take so far:

Exceeded my expectations by a mile:
G Ben Bishop - the team's MVP IMO, incredible performance so far, stole us a lot of games and points already
D Victor Hedman - joins or even leads the rush, smoothest skater on the team and all that at 6'6, great shot, even better passing
D Radko Gudas - expected to play a #4-6 D role, took over and logs 20+ minutes per night, tough as nails, and solid offensively
R Nikita Kucherov - never even expected him to play in the NHL at this point in time, tremendous offensive instincts, great hands, gutsy moves in the SO

Pleasant surprises:
C Valtteri Filppula - quickly became one of my favorite Lightning players, great skater, soft hands, great hockey IQ
L Ondrej Palat - solid two-way player turned 1st line material, still solid defensively with great instincts and while not that big not afraid to battle for the puck and crash the net
C Steven Stamkos - terrific player and leader, round out his game a lot, played the best hockey in his career pre-injury, FO% still not good enough
C Tyler Johnson - at least one break-away per game, adjusted surprisingly fast to the NHL, above average on faceoffs
R J.T. Brown - I'm a fan of his since we signed him and so far he's doing even better than I would've expected
G Anders Lindback - got a lot of flak around HFB but got hung out to dry a lot, redeemed himself lately with very solid play
D Andrej Sustr - still needs to grow into his huge frame but over all much better than expected
C Nate Thompson - a warrior, as fast as the wind, almost always a threat offensively (if only he had a better finishing touch), rock-solid defensively

As expected:
D Matt Carle - has blossomed in Cooper's system, reliable anchor on the blueline, solid in all zones
R Marty St. Louis - probably has been playing through an injury, is his old self again, great leader and role model
L Alex Killorn - started strong, hit a little slump lately, still doing alright so far
D Eric Brewer - many around here wanted him to get bought out in the off-season, still a solid #4-6 D
D Sami Salo - expected him to slow down, has had terrible nights but over all has been alright
R B.J. Crombeen - solid defensively and on the PK, regularly takes on guys above his weight class
L Ryan Malone - still effective when healthy, still injured a lot
C Tom Pyatt - hard worker, solid two-way game
D Mark Barberio - has had his troubles, especially early in the season, with the occasional defensive gaffe, great outlet passes that make it hard to forget that this is his rookie season and to adjust one's expectations accordingly

Worse than expected:
R Teddy Purcell - he's expected to score, especially with Stamkos out but has been a huge disappointment in that regard, got better defensively though
R Richard Panik - IMO the strongest piece in the former Top Gun line, hasn't found his game so far in the NHL
L P.C. Labrie - he's a nice guy but doesn't bring much to the team, easily expendable which is unfortunate
R Brett Connolly - unfortunately couldn't build on his tremendous pre-season performances

I hope I didn't forget anyone...

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Old
12-23-2013, 10:51 AM
  #23
hfgreg
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Grading just doesn't seem fair as some players haven't gotten an even shake just yet. Let's wait til the end of the season. What matters? The record right now. Best start in franchise history still I believe.

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Old
12-23-2013, 11:20 AM
  #24
Felonious Python
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I know that there's been a lot of hate for Stamkos' tibia, but that's his right one, I think his left one is pretty swell carrying the load while the broken one heals.

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12-23-2013, 12:17 PM
  #25
The Macho Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BoltSTH View Post
IMO Save % is almost as bad a +/- for others in rating how a goalie did. Much better would be Scoring Chance %.
You've clearly been a Bolts fan for too long. We've spent so long with goaltenders with awful save % we forget it's actually the best metric to predict a goaltenders performance. While the second number you asked would be nice, there's a few problems with it...

1 - Not all Scoring chances are shots on goal (see hit posts, breakaways that come off of sticks, etc.)

2 - Not all goals come from great scoring chances. The soul-crushing softie wrister from the point that floats through the goalie, etc.

3 - The stat you're desiring simply does not exist in any reliably measurable form.

4 - If you think different arenas counting hits and shots differently are bad, I can't even imagine how bad a "scoring chance" stat would be held.

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