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"Rangers eye deal" - Brooks

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Old
01-14-2007, 01:41 PM
  #51
wolfgaze
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my email to Larry:

Quote:
Larry,

With all due respect, how can you write an article like this without asking yourself a few common sense questions...

Why would any GM in the league part with a 24 year old 30 goal scorer and another young forward for 35 year old Martin Rucinsky that could have been resigned this past summer by his respective team?

Why would Sather move Prucha for Rucinsky when Rucinsky has just 1 more goal than him on the season?

How does acquiring Rucinsky solve the Ranger's 2nd line Center problems?
How does it solve their defensive problems? How does acquiring Rucinsky make them a cup contender?

All rational Ranger fans asking themselves these questions can come to the inevitable conclusion that this so called 'rumor' is absolutely ludicrous... Even Eklund's trade rumors have made more sense than this.

Maybe you should have asked yourself these questions before writing an article about it. For you to write about this alleged trade proposal and present it as fact absolutely crushes your credibility. Even more so because you didn't even bother to offer your opinion on the matter nor criticize any of the Ranger's management for contemplating such a nightmare trade... You criticize Renney & Sather a week ago and have nothing to say about them now?

Who was your 'personnel source'? The Ranger's stickboy?


Last edited by wolfgaze: 01-14-2007 at 01:46 PM.
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Old
01-14-2007, 01:57 PM
  #52
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I still do not personally think...

that the Blues would turn down a Prucha for Ruca deal. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that Sather would trade Prucha, given the season he's had and the overall problems on the second line (center's a problem, but getting Ruca does make the second line better and would be cheaper). Further, it's not unreasonable to believe that Sather would seek Rucinsky's services - he's played on Sather GM'd teams a few times already. I'm not saying Larry's unsubstantiated 'sources' are correct, but this is very believable.

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Old
01-14-2007, 02:04 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
that the Blues would turn down a Prucha for Ruca deal. I don't think it's unreasonable to think that Sather would trade Prucha, given the season he's had and the overall problems on the second line (center's a problem, but getting Ruca does make the second line better and would be cheaper). Further, it's not unreasonable to believe that Sather would seek Rucinsky's services - he's played on Sather GM'd teams a few times already. I'm not saying Larry's unsubstantiated 'sources' are correct, but this is very believable.
How can you say that?

How does Sather not look like the biggest moron in the league by failing to resign a player and then trading his most talented young forward to reaquire a soon to be 36 year old player that will retire after next season?

How does Rucinsky make the 2nd line better? The guy's got 1 more goal than Prucha on the season.... Sure he's more of a play-maker but if that line doesn't gel right away then what?

Sather usually lowballs in trades... What makes you think he'd overpay for Rucinsky?

You may take Sather for an idiot but do you take JD for an idiot? If you were JD would you have turned down the chance to acquire Prucha for an overpayed 36 year old?

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01-14-2007, 02:05 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evilo View Post
The Malone for Kobasew rumor makes much more sense for the Pens.
Flames are dangling Kobasew out there, eh? I wonder what happened with him. Was really highly hyped and doesn't seem to be doing much of anything.

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01-14-2007, 02:16 PM
  #55
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wherever prucha goes, i go.

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01-14-2007, 02:16 PM
  #56
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Hey guys, if the Rangers can get Orpik for Prucha I would say go for it. The top line of Jagr, Nylander and Straka is set. If Jagr likes his Czechs let them keep the Roszival Malik pairing and lets find some good ole gritty type players to compliment Shanny oh the second line. Prucha has high upside but also low downside and a very slight frame.

Orpik is a younger version of the good Kasparaitis. Not much offence but a huge hitting rock on defence. He is 25, been in the league a while and may be a perfect compliment to a Bobby Sanguinetti in the future of an offensive minded Rachunek, current.

I would hate to lose Prucha but maybe its time to start a new way of thinking, build from defence out as our biggest future stars are between the pipes or on the blueline. Pick up Malone and use him as Center with Shanny and stick a smaller faster Dawes on the line. One Superstar, one highly tooted rookie, and 1 reclamation project with size at pivot with an above average upside.

As for Rosie, let the blues keep him, the last thing the Rangers need is to get older, they will have no legs in the playoffs if they make it.

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Old
01-14-2007, 02:21 PM
  #57
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Rucinsky doesn't need others...

to make him better. He is what he is. He's a much better cycler, a much better stickhander, better in corners, better defensively, and a better passer. He'd actually mesh quite well with Shanny, I believe. He's not the finisher Prucha is, but right now, he's a better all-around second liner and yes, I believe he'd make it bigger, and Cullen and Shanny would score more.

Also, aside from goals, you need to look at the assists. A good deal more (and on a not-so-great team).

Personally, though, I don't look at Ruca's stats in one situation and compare them to Prucha's stats in another situation (especially one stat), and then end my analysis. I believe Ruca's style of play will mesh well with Shanny's. I think the second line would look better with Cullen/Shanny and Ruca, as opposed to Prucha. Just my belief, and every trade/UFA signing, or call-up is based on similar beliefs, so this is no different. Sometimes you get it wrong, which is why you trade a guy you think can easily be replaced.

I should note, I'm not pushing for a trade or saying one should happen. I am saying that what's been said doesn't surprise me. I wouldn't doubt if the league is saying that Prucha needs Jagr to score his goals, otherwise he's not even a 20 goal scorer and what's the value of a goal scorer who's' smallish, and one dimensional (a scorer) who may not be able to score more than 20 goals in a different situation. That creates a bit lower value, but that's what's mostly been proven - perhaps if he got off to a good start and gained confidence we'd see him play better with others, but unfortunately we didn't and he now has a bit to prove (considering he's now a fourth liner (and Hall's a healthy scratch!)).

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Old
01-14-2007, 02:31 PM
  #58
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Fletch in your long analysis of both players you completed neglected to address the fact that Rucinsky is turning 36 and the Rangers are no where close to being cup contenders... Nor did you address why Sather would overpay for a player he chose not to resign in the summer....

Nor did you address how Rucinsky would hurt our cap next season as he's signed already for another year.... You can most certainly bet the Rangers will be resigning Straka after the year he's having and Nylander's option will probably be picked up....

Oh and if Shanny decides to stick around for another year we'll still be lacking a 2nd line Center and all of our wingers on the top 2 lines will be 34+++

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Old
01-14-2007, 02:32 PM
  #59
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It's possible that Sather and Renney see Ruca playing LW on the top line, then sliding Straka to 2nd line C, Cullen replaces Prucha on the 2nd line LW.

Like I said the last time this came up, I'd bet that Sather sees Prucha and Ruca as a coin toss. You're only committed to either through '07/'08, at which point both are UFA's, assuming Prucha doesn't sign an extension before then. If Sather feels that Ruca is an upgrade over Prucha over that time frame, then a straight trade is win for him. It's possible Davidson and Pleau are looking at it the same way.

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Old
01-14-2007, 02:38 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
It's possible that Sather and Renney see Ruca playing LW on the top line, then sliding Straka to 2nd line C, Cullen replaces Prucha on the 2nd line LW.

Like I said the last time this came up, I'd bet that Sather sees Prucha and Ruca as a coin toss. You're only committed to either through '07/'08, at which point both are UFA's, assuming Prucha doesn't sign an extension before then. If Sather feels that Ruca is an upgrade over Prucha over that time frame, then a straight trade is win for him. It's possible Davidson and Pleau are looking at it the same way.
How can it be a win for him?

One is turning 36, and making what, close to $3 mil next season?

The other will be turning 25 and still making peanuts....


This trade might be a "win" if the Rangers were one winger away from being Cup contenders but the with the current state of the team, this trade has "disaster" written all over it....

This trade doesn't help is build for the future.... It hurts our salary cap for next season, which will prevent us from acquiring players we desperately need (2nd line Center/Solid defenseman)... and it also kills whatever remaining credibility the Ranger's management might have left with the fans...

What message does it send to the prospects?

If your a prospect and you have a sophomore slump, you get moved for old wingers on the verge of retirement during a marginal season?

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01-14-2007, 02:48 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
How can it be a win for him?
If Rucinsky can actually make the 2nd line (with Cullen and Shanahan) more pruductive AND the Rangers make the playoffs AND they at least make it past the first round, it's a WIN for Sather in the eyes of Dolan.

Not a win for the Rangers, but a win for Sather.

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Old
01-14-2007, 02:51 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by klingsor View Post
If Rucinsky can actually make the 2nd line (with Cullen and Shanahan) more pruductive AND the Rangers make the playoffs AND they at least make it past the first round, it's a WIN for Sather in the eyes of Dolan.

Not a win for the Rangers, but a win for Sather.

If Sather angers 95% of the fan base and the Rangers still do nothing to address their defensive problems (their biggest flaw), how is that overall a win for Sather?

We all know our defense is going to get man-handled in the playoffs (if we can even make them).

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01-14-2007, 02:52 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klingsor View Post
If Rucinsky can actually make the 2nd line (with Cullen and Shanahan) more pruductive AND the Rangers make the playoffs AND they at least make it past the first round, it's a WIN for Sather in the eyes of Dolan.

Not a win for the Rangers, but a win for Sather.
And that's the kind of front-office mentality that's lead to winning only 1 cup in 66 years.

You'd figure, after that long, they'd learn something.

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Old
01-14-2007, 02:56 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
If Sather angers 95% of the fan base and the Rangers still do nothing to address their defensive problems (their biggest flaw), how is that overall a win for Sather?

We all know our defense is going to get man-handled in the playoffs (if we can even make them).
Obviously, Sather doesn't care what the fan base thinks. That's not even debateable.

So many glaring holes have gone unfilled for so long, this can't come as a surprise to you.

Sather sees a player he likes better than one he's willing to part with. That's all he's needed to know in the past. Since I can't predict what he will do going forward, I'll leave it at that.

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Old
01-14-2007, 03:00 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
It's possible that Sather and Renney see Ruca playing LW on the top line, then sliding Straka to 2nd line C, Cullen replaces Prucha on the 2nd line LW.

Like I said the last time this came up, I'd bet that Sather sees Prucha and Ruca as a coin toss. You're only committed to either through '07/'08, at which point both are UFA's, assuming Prucha doesn't sign an extension before then. If Sather feels that Ruca is an upgrade over Prucha over that time frame, then a straight trade is win for him. It's possible Davidson and Pleau are looking at it the same way.
Prucha doesn't qualify for unrestricted free agency after 2007-08.He will only be 25 years old as of July 1,2008.Prucha turns 26 on 9/14/08.He would only have three accrued seasons-2005-06,06-07 and 07-08.He isn't old enough and doesn't have the service time

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Unrestricted Free Agency - For the 2005-06 season, a player age 31 with four accrued seasons will be an unrestricted free agent; in 2006-07, a player age 29 with four accrued seasons or with eight accrued seasons; in 2007-08, a player age 28 with four accrued seasons or with seven accrued seasons; beginning in 2008-09 and for the duration of the agreement, a player age 27 with four accrued seasons or with seven accrued seasons will be an unrestricted free agent. For purposes of qualifying for unrestricted free agency, the 2004-05 cancelled season will be counted as a year of accrued service
http://www.nhl.com/nhlhq/cba/index.html

Martin Rucinsky has a no cut contract for 2007-08 which was one of the reasons why the Rangers didn't budge off their one year offer.Are there no other players in the NHL?

One thing about the New York Post,they don't require their writers to confirm rumors before they print them.USA Today would never have printed a third party rumor.John Dellapina would never have used a third party source as the basis for his article

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01-14-2007, 03:06 PM
  #66
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Why do I need to adress...

those opinions? Is it possible that Sather thinks this team could do better than last season? If Ruca was signed and the Rangers won a playoff series instead of bowing out like losers last season, would fans soon forget the trade? Also, could Sather believe that this team is better than the fans believe? We're the ones that thought this team needed help aside from Ward on defense and that they needed a second line centerman; Sather did not, so it's feasible that we're not all on the same page.

As for the cap - perhaps he's thinking some kids can make the jump. He may be thinking Montoya vs. Weekes, which could save money. Staal instead of Ozo. Baranka instead of Kaspar. I'm not a cap guru and don't have all the salaries, potential for salaries, and available salaries for next season, but he may be able to fit in for next season.

As for the message - again, I'm not advocating a trade - I can see how this could make sense in Sather's and Renney's minds (especially considering Ruca's a known quantity). This team has been filled with mixed messages to kids, which again, is another reason why this wouldn't surprise me.

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01-14-2007, 03:06 PM
  #67
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WOW...WOW....WOW. I really don't get it. RUCINSKY!? AGAIN!? Am I seeing right? This team just doesn't get it. If your gonna deal with the Blues...go get a Brewer or Jackman or someone who can toughen up the backline. Heck...I'll take Doug Weight for sure before I took Rucinsky back. I may even take Jamal Mayers...yeesh. Anyone but Marty. Anyway...and if you're gonna deal with Pitt...how about an Orpik, or a Petrovicky?

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01-14-2007, 03:06 PM
  #68
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These rumors are so stupid. I don't know why we give them so much time on this board.

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01-14-2007, 03:21 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klingsor View Post
If it actually comes to pass (like York for Poti), that's the proper time to go ballistic about Sather if that's your wont.
For me Prucha and Hall for Rucinsky, aren't even in the same ballpark as Poti for York. I mean today Poti by all accounts have more value then Mike York.

York were a perfect fit here in NY, especially since we had nobody else like him on the team, Poti came here, the worst place in the league to be if you aren't really good defensivly since he got no help, and of course were exposed.

So I think that were a bad deal.

If we trade Prucha and Hall now for Rucinsky, its a extremely extremely bad management from Sather.

I even think he knows that if he did it he would be humiliated so much, that that alone will keep him from not making that deal.

So therefor I really doubt the source..

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01-14-2007, 03:57 PM
  #70
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Dumb rumors and speculations by Brooks and a 3rd party, must be a slow Sunday

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Old
01-14-2007, 04:10 PM
  #71
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btw, Orpik is 27, not 25. plus, you would REALLY do Prucha for Orpik?

unlike many others, i don't see this current team winning the Cup, so why give away a bit of the future (Prucha) for and already older past (Rucinsky)?

don't blow it, but also realize that we (this current team) is not good enough to win the cup and no reason to make moves to s**t it up.

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01-14-2007, 04:14 PM
  #72
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For the record...

I'm not interested in the trade, but Rucinsky was a point per game guy with the Rangers last season on a second line, he's a friend of Jagr (not suggesting conspiracy, but Jagr ain't right), and he worked the point better than Straka last season. Personally, I've rationalized why those stats are true, but the fact was that even though Prucha played well on a second line and on the PP, Rucinsky replaced him when he returned from injury, which shows what the coach thought of the coomparitive.EDIT: I also think there are other line combos, including point guys that make sense, but Renney has kept Rozsival and Straka there ALL season long, among other things.

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01-14-2007, 04:18 PM
  #73
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In hindsight, this is Ranger land, and anything is possible. Sather has the innate/insane ability to pull of odd deals, and the fans concerns are not even near the top of the list of "why"?

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01-14-2007, 04:26 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I'm not interested in the trade, but Rucinsky was a point per game guy with the Rangers last season on a second line, he's a friend of Jagr (not suggesting conspiracy, but Jagr ain't right), and he worked the point better than Straka last season. Personally, I've rationalized why those stats are true, but the fact was that even though Prucha played well on a second line and on the PP, Rucinsky replaced him when he returned from injury, which shows what the coach thought of the coomparitive.EDIT: I also think there are other line combos, including point guys that make sense, but Renney has kept Rozsival and Straka there ALL season long, among other things.
Very good points. As a point per game guy, Rucinsky was liked by Renney also, and was someone he trusted on the point on the PP.

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Old
01-14-2007, 04:32 PM
  #75
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Quote:
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unlike many others, i don't see this current team winning the Cup, so why give away a bit of the future (Prucha) for and already older past (Rucinsky)?

don't blow it, but also realize that we (this current team) is not good enough to win the cup and no reason to make moves to s**t it up.
absolutely, there is no need to be trading 25 year olds with potential for 35 year olds at or beyond their prime. that's the problem with this organization. they just can't stick with any plan that takes some time and patience to implement. you want to trade prucha and a prospect for a 28 year old 2nd line center that's one thing, but to trade him for a guy 10 years older who we won't need or want in 2 years is just stupid.

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