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How expendable is Vladimir Sobotka to the Blues?

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Old
12-23-2013, 11:01 AM
  #126
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Originally Posted by thedustman View Post
if pang didn't mention sobotka so much, i bet he wouldn't be so highly rated on here. He is the quintessential third line player, winger or center. He works hard, he plays smart, he plays with heart. He should not be confused with players who look more nonchalant, yet give us more offensive potential and diversity like berglund and stewart and roy. Schwartz seems amazing because he has sobotka's drive and style, and he also has a killer shot and good hands. Schwartz is worthy on the top two lines, Sobotka is a great fill in... but his real value is being one of the best third liners in the league.
Well, leading the league in face-off percentage is a fact, not Panger hype. I think you're not giving him his due. He's been known to slide up into the top 6 and get a line going at times.

I think he just doesn't have the physical size to survive the pounding he takes over the course of a season, if he were on a top line. Ideally for the Blues, he's on the 4th line (with this roster) but I still think he's deserved all the praise he's received.

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12-23-2013, 11:29 AM
  #127
Vladys Gumption
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Originally Posted by bluesman11 View Post
See if I can explain, since this last run of injuries occurred with varying results everyone can be traded, except Reeves because we all know they would have beaten everyone if he was healthy.
Oh man i totally forgot Reaves was the driving force behind us winning.

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12-23-2013, 08:03 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Robb_K View Post
If you are referring to Vladimir Sobotka, don't call him a Russian, to his face. He might take exception to that, as he is a Czech. They have no love for the Russians after 45 years of terrible oppression (1945-1990).

If you were referring to Tarasenko, it would bt wise to not call him "little", to his face.
1948 - 1989 Otherwise, I totally agree:-)

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12-23-2013, 09:28 PM
  #129
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1948 - 1989 Otherwise, I totally agree:-)
I know that The Soviet Army didn't take over and install a Communist government until 1948, but didn't The Soviet Army's troops remain in Czechoslovakia after the end of WWII in 1945? Or were they all removed and returned in 1948? Somehow I think it very unlike Jozef Stalin to have removed his troops from a country in which they were already ensconsed.

You live in København, eh? I work there every Summer, for Anders And & Co. I stay mainly in Lillerød (just south of Hillerød), but I used to live in The City (Amager, and Østerbro). But one of my best friends lives in western Jylland, near Herning, the heart of Danmark's hockey hotbed.

I have some connection to Czechoslovakia, as well. Some of my father's family lived in Ruthenia (between Munkacs(Mukachevo), Beregszaz(Bereghovo) and Ungvar (Uzhgorod)) before and during The War. In 1945, when the war ended, and The Soviet Army did not leave, The Soviet Union annexed that area and added it to The Ukraine. My grandfather brought all those people (over 20) to Canada, and they lived with us.


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12-23-2013, 10:06 PM
  #130
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See, we DO need Sobe back. We just lost.

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12-23-2013, 10:09 PM
  #131
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Robb is connected everywhere.

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12-23-2013, 10:26 PM
  #132
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Robb is connected everywhere.
6 degrees of Robb.

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12-25-2013, 09:07 PM
  #133
Fred Murtz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb_K View Post
If you are referring to Vladimir Sobotka, don't call him a Russian, to his face. He might take exception to that, as he is a Czech. They have no love for the Russians after 45 years of terrible oppression (1945-1990).

If you were referring to Tarasenko, it would bt wise to not call him "little", to his face.
Yes I know Sobe is Czech. Bobby Plager said he "Loved that little Russian guy" on the radio about Sobe and it stuck.

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12-26-2013, 12:39 AM
  #134
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Yes I know Sobe is Czech. Bobby Plager said he "Loved that little Russian guy" on the radio about Sobe and it stuck.
AHA! A Blues' lore famous quotation!!! Now we HAVE to win The Stanley Cup, to match our long history (soon over 50 years) and team lore, (The Plagers, Scotty Bowman, Plante, Hall, Picard, etc.).

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12-26-2013, 06:56 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Robb_K View Post
I know that The Soviet Army didn't take over and install a Communist government until 1948, but didn't The Soviet Army's troops remain in Czechoslovakia after the end of WWII in 1945? Or were they all removed and returned in 1948? Somehow I think it very unlike Jozef Stalin to have removed his troops from a country in which they were already ensconsed.

You live in København, eh? I work there every Summer, for Anders And & Co. I stay mainly in Lillerød (just south of Hillerød), but I used to live in The City (Amager, and Østerbro). But one of my best friends lives in western Jylland, near Herning, the heart of Danmark's hockey hotbed.

I have some connection to Czechoslovakia, as well. Some of my father's family lived in Ruthenia (between Munkacs(Mukachevo), Beregszaz(Bereghovo) and Ungvar (Uzhgorod)) before and during The War. In 1945, when the war ended, and The Soviet Army did not leave, The Soviet Union annexed that area and added it to The Ukraine. My grandfather brought all those people (over 20) to Canada, and they lived with us.
Speaking of the Red Army... May be dating myself a bit, but I had the privilege of getting center ice tickets to see the Red Army hockey team with Fetisov, Kasatonov, etc. in their prime vs the Blues in 86. It was unreal at the time the breed of hockey they brought in. They hardly ever let go of the puck. They would carry it in the zone and then right back out just not to lose possession. Even the likes of a young Doug Gilmour were so overmatched, it was just incredible. They just frustrated the Blues.

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12-29-2013, 08:02 PM
  #136
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I'd like to get this in before the piling on starts (someone referenced the title of this thread in the game day discussion vs Dallas but those posts were deleted - so this is the thread for it).

Since the birth of this thread, we've now seen the Blues play 6 games without Sobotka.

What happened? They continued to roll. They, in fact, had their biggest win of the season (Saturday vs the Blackhawks) without Sobotka in which they showed great character, effort, energy and never say die attitude (all things some fans said are the reason why Sobotka isn't expendable).

Furthermore, without Sobotka, we saw several players that I predicted would flourish without Sobotka, do just that.

We've seen Roy, Stewart, Lapierre, Morrow, Bergland and Schawartz play their best hockey of the season during that stretch.

Now we finally see Sobotka return tonight against Dallas. He was on the ice for all goals scored in the game. While I know some are all about looking at stats/points and will cite 2 assists (and I admit the first one was a beauty passing play - big thanks to Oshie) and deem it a successful return, personally I wasn't overly impressed as it was obvious he had missed a lot of time. He even failed to finish his check on the forecheck which is what he contributes to the team most - he doesn't have the offensive skills to not finish checks, etc.

His stat line on the game:

17 V. Sobotka
0g
2a
4 PIM
2 shots
2 hits
50% faceoffs
1:01 pp
1:21 sh
20:31

I was surprised Hitchcock played him that much given the rust but with the other injuries there's not a lot of options.

I do wonder if the reason why they are giving him PP time is to make him more marketable to other teams at the deadline?

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Old
12-29-2013, 08:08 PM
  #137
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So you turned his performance around to be a negative? Just stop while you're behind.

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12-29-2013, 08:10 PM
  #138
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Some teams like winning faceoffs on the PP... some teams score because of it. I'm pretty sure Hitchcock wants to be one of those teams.

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12-29-2013, 08:11 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieG View Post
I'd like to get this in before the piling on starts (someone referenced the title of this thread in the game day discussion vs Dallas but those posts were deleted - so this is the thread for it).

Since the birth of this thread, we've now seen the Blues play 6 games without Sobotka.

What happened? They continued to roll. They, in fact, had their biggest win of the season (Saturday vs the Blackhawks) without Sobotka in which they showed great character, effort, energy and never say die attitude (all things some fans said are the reason why Sobotka isn't expendable).

Furthermore, without Sobotka, we saw several players that I predicted would flourish without Sobotka, do just that.

We've seen Roy, Stewart, Lapierre, Morrow, Bergland and Schawartz play their best hockey of the season during that stretch.

Now we finally see Sobotka return tonight against Dallas. He was on the ice for all goals scored in the game. While I know some are all about looking at stats/points and will cite 2 assists (and I admit the first one was a beauty passing play - big thanks to Oshie) and deem it a successful return, personally I wasn't overly impressed as it was obvious he had missed a lot of time. He even failed to finish his check on the forecheck which is what he contributes to the team most - he doesn't have the offensive skills to not finish checks, etc.

His stat line on the game:

17 V. Sobotka
0g
2a
4 PIM
2 shots
2 hits
50% faceoffs
1:01 pp
1:21 sh
20:31

I was surprised Hitchcock played him that much given the rust but with the other injuries there's not a lot of options.

I do wonder if the reason why they are giving him PP time is to make him more marketable to other teams at the deadline?
Ken Hitchcock, or any other coach in the NHL, is not going to give a guy extra playing time they don't deserve to make him more marketable. Hitch is trying to win hockey games, so he puts his best players on the ice as much as possible. It really is that simple. Soby, especially with this depleted lineup, is one of our best all around players.

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Old
12-29-2013, 08:12 PM
  #140
JamieG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
So you turned his performance around to be a negative? Just stop while you're behind.
Feel free to elaborate *your opinion* on his performance.

Quote:
Ken Hitchcock, or any other coach in the NHL, is not going to give a guy extra playing time they don't deserve to make him more marketable.
Teams do this all the time.

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12-29-2013, 08:14 PM
  #141
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He's on pace for about 45 points.

We need center depth. The only reason Sobotka would be traded is if Pittsburgh absolutely demanded he be part of a package for Malkin or something like that which will never happen. So, other than that, moving him just makes no sense and it's kinda obvious you just have a personal vendetta against the guy. He's an ideal 3rd-liner really. He came back tonight and played well and helped us to a big win.

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12-29-2013, 08:16 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieG View Post
Feel free to elaborate *your opinion* on his performance.



Teams do this all the time.
Example?

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12-29-2013, 08:26 PM
  #143
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One quick example off the top of my head, Dominic Moore in the 08-09 season when Toronto dealt him at the deadline. They knew they were going to deal him and gave him opportunities he had never been given at any other time in his career before or after.

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12-29-2013, 08:28 PM
  #144
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We've also won games without Steen and Backes. I guess they are expendable. Seriously can you just stop?

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Old
12-29-2013, 08:34 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by JamieG View Post
One quick example off the top of my head, Dominic Moore in the 08-09 season when Toronto dealt him at the deadline. They knew they were going to deal him and gave him opportunities he had never been given at any other time in his career before or after.
So an awful team started selling?

That's nice but the Blues aren't in that situation.

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12-29-2013, 08:42 PM
  #146
JamieG
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Originally Posted by BlueDream View Post
So an awful team started selling?

That's nice but the Blues aren't in that situation.
The statement I was asked to respond to was: "Ken Hitchcock, or any other coach in the NHL, is not going to give a guy extra playing time they don't deserve to make him more marketable."

Ron Wilson was indeed a NHL coach and qualifies as part of the statement I was responding to.

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12-29-2013, 08:47 PM
  #147
JamieG
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Originally Posted by BlueDream View Post
He's on pace for about 45 points.

We need center depth. The only reason Sobotka would be traded is if Pittsburgh absolutely demanded he be part of a package for Malkin or something like that which will never happen. So, other than that, moving him just makes no sense and it's kinda obvious you just have a personal vendetta against the guy. He's an ideal 3rd-liner really. He came back tonight and played well and helped us to a big win.
I don't have a personal vendetta against Sobotka. I actually somewhat like him. However, I recognize that given the assets and strengths and weaknesses of the team, the Blues best chance to win the Cup this year would be to move Sobotka out for that trade deadline missing piece that everyone will want to put the team over the top. I do believe Armstrong has this in mind as well and it is just a matter of time.

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12-29-2013, 08:52 PM
  #148
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Again your theory continues to fall apart when you factor in salary and players that could be available. Not to mention that your judgements of players being able to replace what Sobotka brings being completely false.

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12-29-2013, 08:56 PM
  #149
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Anyone who wants to trade Sobotka is going to have to go through:

1) The Ken Mother-loving Hitchcock Pyramid
2) Andy McDonald
3) 99% of Blues fans including this board

I think we can leave it at that. Minority opinion heard, noted, documented....please can it stop being repeated ad infinitum?

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12-29-2013, 09:11 PM
  #150
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Again your theory continues to fall apart when you factor in salary and players that could be available. Not to mention that your judgements of players being able to replace what Sobotka brings being completely false.
In your opinion. Which I believe is faulty and flawed. We just went through a stretch of 6 games where several players demonstrated that they are more than capable of replacing what Sobotka brings.

If we are talking about what the team would be like without Sobotka, we just witnessed 6 games and the result was very positive with several players stepping up and excelling.

The Blues are a bigger team without Sobotka. And that is going to be a key in the playoffs.

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