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Mact's performance thus far.

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Old
10-04-2013, 12:58 PM
  #676
Moose Coleman
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Originally Posted by manningite View Post
If it's too early to tell then I don't think there should be a letter grade assigned. Let's wait a couple games and then make a decision.

unrelated note - Signing SMac and then a few days later signing Gazdic might also be a perfect example of why it is best we didn't rush or put too much money into signing any old unwanted veteran NHL center.

MacT grabbed Smac in a flurry because he thought we needed protection from dirty teams... Then a few days later a less frightening but more skilled player came along and now he had wasted a contract spot.

If our centers are coming back as soon as we all hope and we blow our last contract spot on someone we won't be using, then we have no safety net in the event we desperately need to sign a position during the season or down the stretch.
He signed Gazdic because SMac got hurt.

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10-04-2013, 02:29 PM
  #677
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He signed Gazdic because SMac got hurt.
We don't know that. MacT said that Nelson had brought up Gazdic as a player to watch as early as the summer, way before MacIntyre was ever claimed. They could've claimed Gazdic simply because they liked him as a player and not explicitly as a replacement.

Regardless though, early returns show Gazdic as another good move MacTavish has made since taking over. Obviously the Joensuu and Belov signings look good so far (and point reassuringly to an ability to identify talent in Europe). Ference adds some much needed stability to the backend. Larsen adds some solid depth that could legitimately play on the bottom pairing and might turn out to be more than that. Perron looks like he's finally found home, and I actually liked Acton's game much more than I was expecting to against Winnipeg. Even the potential flops like Jones and Grebeshkov provide solid depth and are only on one-year contracts. I'm very much liking what MacTavish has done so far.

Hall - Gagner - Yakupov
Perron - Nugent Hopkins - Eberle
Joensuu - Gordon - Hemsky
Gazdic - Acton - Brown

Ference - J. Schultz
Smid - Petry
N. Schultz - Belov

Extras: Smyth, Jones, Eager, Larsen, Potter, Grebeshkov

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10-04-2013, 02:49 PM
  #678
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Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
Too early for anything. The only thing I can take out of that game is that guys questioning JJ's speed were out to lunch. I thought we had another Ryan Stone on our hands when listening to some of the local radio.

Outside of that, I'll wait before rating MacT.
Joensuu's skating has improved dramatically the past couple of years. My worry coming into this season was about his balance and edges, but I'm not worried about those anymore.

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10-04-2013, 03:03 PM
  #679
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He signed Gazdic because SMac got hurt.
Maybe he did, maybe he didn't...

I'm just saying that a better fit for our teams needs came available a few days later and some of the armchair GMs around here would do well to see a prime example of why MacT might have not picked up one of the waived or available Centers.

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10-04-2013, 03:06 PM
  #680
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Joensuu's skating has improved dramatically the past couple of years. My worry coming into this season was about his balance and edges, but I'm not worried about those anymore.
Are you familiar with this player and his history?

If so was his skating the biggest reason why he hasnt been able to stick in the NHL?
I ask that because he looks to be an excellent pickup so far.

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10-04-2013, 03:08 PM
  #681
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Are you familiar with this player and his history?

If so was his skating the biggest reason why he hasnt been able to stick in the NHL?
Somewhat.

Skating, physical play and consistency were his big issues. For a long time he wasn't using his size to his advantage either. His playing style now is almost unrecognizable compared to what it was.

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10-04-2013, 03:12 PM
  #682
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Somewhat.

Skating, physical play and consistency were his big issues. For a long time he wasn't using his size to his advantage either. His playing style now is almost unrecognizable compared to what it was.
I have no familiarity at all with Joensuu until this season...other than the sports hernia from last year I really didnt know anything about him.

Its not standard for a player to completely change his style in such a way that it contrasts his entire history...as far as you can determine what appears to be the reason for the transformation?

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10-04-2013, 03:21 PM
  #683
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I have no familiarity at all with Joensuu until this season...other than the sports hernia from last year I really didnt know anything about him.

Its not standard for a player to completely change his style in such a way that it contrasts his entire history...as far as you can determine what appears to be the reason for the transformation?
I think Joensuu realized that if he wants to play in the NHL, he'd have to embrace his physical gifts. He used to play a much more passive skill game.

The Islanders have tried to get him to embrace the physical side of the game since he came over to North America, and it only began to stick in 2010-2011...but he was still inconsistent in bringing that kind of game every night. During this time his skating was still a big issue as he had poor balance and edges. His straightaway speed was fine, but he was falling to ice and losing puck battles way more often than you'd like to see from a big guy like him.

I think we got lucky that he was injured for much of last season, really, as the Islanders decided to cut their losses without seeing what he could finally bring.

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10-04-2013, 03:25 PM
  #684
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as far as you can determine what appears to be the reason for the transformation?
Someone along the way recognized (or he realized himself) that Joensuu could get more out of his skill-set and tool box. If he is able to put it all together and stay consistent he could carve out a nice niche for himself in the NHL, and perhaps play on the Finnish national team too.

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10-04-2013, 03:33 PM
  #685
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I think Joensuu realized that if he wants to play in the NHL, he'd have to embrace his physical gifts. He used to play a much more passive skill game.

The Islanders have tried to get him to embrace the physical side of the game since he came over to North America, and it only began to stick in 2010-2011...but he was still inconsistent in bringing that kind of game every night. During this time his skating was still a big issue as he had poor balance and edges. His straightaway speed was fine, but he was falling to ice and losing puck battles way more often than you'd like to see from a big guy like him.

I think we got lucky that he was injured for much of last season, really, as the Islanders decided to cut their losses without seeing what he could finally bring.
Good stuff.

When I looked at his history and saw that he basically missed a season due to injury my first thought was that he didnt get an opportunity to show if he matured. He was only 23 that last time he had an extended period of games with the Isles.

He is now 25 and more mature...assuming this is the player we will have all season his timing from an Oilers perspective couldnt have been better. They desperately need his skill set.

I am pulling for him big time.

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10-04-2013, 03:35 PM
  #686
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Someone along the way recognized (or he realized himself) that Joensuu could get more out of his skill-set and tool box.
Perhaps being a more mature player and having a sense of urgency in terms of his NHL career helped as well.

Quote:
If he is able to put it all together and stay consistent he could carve out a nice niche for himself in the NHL, and perhaps play on the Finnish national team too.
Completely agree. Here's hoping it all works out for him.

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10-04-2013, 03:57 PM
  #687
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Somewhat.

Skating, physical play and consistency were his big issues. For a long time he wasn't using his size to his advantage either. His playing style now is almost unrecognizable compared to what it was.
Everything I read about him suggested these were the issues, but there were quite a few saying that he was starting to do that and was on the verge of a breakout before the sports hernia.

For now it appears that we finally have one of those guys that gets it and knows what he has to do in order to stay in the NHL.

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10-05-2013, 04:36 PM
  #688
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It's only one regular season game, but could you tell me why you think Gordon is no better than Horcoff?
from preseason and the first game, I would think he'd be considered an improvement, and at less cost.
As long as he isn't a massive liability every time he steps on the ice he'll be an upgrade on Horcoff.

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10-05-2013, 04:51 PM
  #689
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Originally Posted by guymez View Post
I have no familiarity at all with Joensuu until this season...other than the sports hernia from last year I really didnt know anything about him.

Its not standard for a player to completely change his style in such a way that it contrasts his entire history...as far as you can determine what appears to be the reason for the transformation?
Oddly enough, from what I've read about him his problems were intensity and compete level. He went back to Europe after his initial attempt to make the NHL and rediscovered his hunger for the game and wanted to give North America another shot. Lucky for us. He looks like he could be the second coming of Curtis Glencross.

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12-26-2013, 03:44 AM
  #690
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well, two months later and Mact has gone from Mr. Impatient to Mr. Excuses and 'don't get too excited, because we need to draft and develop (code for 2 more years of suck)

still think he's better than Tambo, but getting more and more umimpressed by the day.

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12-26-2013, 07:17 AM
  #691
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He signed Gazdic because SMac got hurt.
Yes it was kind of funny how Gazdic stole Mac's job. Injured his knee in the AHL then signed with his team. Classy.

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12-26-2013, 10:02 AM
  #692
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well, two months later and Mact has gone from Mr. Impatient to Mr. Excuses and 'don't get too excited, because we need to draft and develop (code for 2 more years of suck)

still think he's better than Tambo, but getting more and more umimpressed by the day.
I like a lot of the moves he's done, actually. the forward group is pretty solid.
Overall, I give him a fail because of the putrid defensive corps.

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12-26-2013, 05:55 PM
  #693
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I like a lot of the moves he's done, actually. the forward group is pretty solid.
Overall, I give him a fail because of the putrid defensive corps.
Getting Perron was huge, I have no idea why StL parted with him. I'm not a fan of his inability to get a Hemsky deal done, and the development of Yakupov is largely his fault.

The one-dimensional defense is laughable. When you look at what's left of our d-corps it's just a joke that they traded away the only guy we had there with any grit. Just a stupid trade.

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12-26-2013, 06:07 PM
  #694
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Is the team underperforming a result of Craig MacTavish's management?

I don't think so. In before people scream that I'm a shill or an apologist.

Look at the mess that MacT inherited from his predecessor. I know people are impatient, I cannot blame them for that. That said, it would of been foolish to think this team would magically turn from pretenders to contenders in one off season.

People shouldn't blame MacT for being inactive. In one off season, he argubally did more than Tambo did during his tenure. The Paajarvi + 2nd for Perron is turning to be one of the best trades in recent history. What was the best trade Tambo did? The Penner deal?

Free agency, unlike Tambo's magnificent blunders (Belanger, Hordichuk, Eager, Barker), so far MacT has done a good job. Ference has came as advertised, and more so (I like his off ice presence. I remember one poster calling Ference a grad A ass hat. Well that Ass hat recently donated 10k to Hope Mission.). Gordon has been even more than expected.

Unfortunately, this season died on the putrid performance of Dubnyk. Again though, I do not think that MacT is at fault for the lack of effort. People knew he was chasing Schnieder. There were even rumblings of being in on the Bernier hunt. This wasn't a GM that was content with his goalie.

However, there have been faults. I said at the start Bryzgalov would of been a nice addition back in the summer (it's nice I can be one of those blow hards that can go TOLD YOU SO). The signing of LaBarbera turned out.....well poor. Traded for a conditional pick not even a season in.

The Ladislav Smid trade was a headscratcher for sure. While I like Broissoit and Horak could be something useful, it hurt trading a dman who had grit. Actually, a player that had grit, something this team lacked. A trade like that didn't scream that the Oilers were contenders, but rebuilding. A word that quite a few fans are sick of hearing.

I won't blame this season's disaster on MacT, rather on the players failing to take the next step and be accountable. I give MacT a pass.

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12-26-2013, 06:47 PM
  #695
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Mac T's player signings and trades have been good to great even. Barring Labarbra and Smid.

We clearly have a better roster this year over last year.

Mac 's coaching signing is a train wreck. Embarassing. Pathetic. Signing Eakins to 4 years is one of the dumbest moves in the history of the Edmonton Oilers.

I really hope to be eating those words in 2 years but can not fathom how Eakins can turn this team around.

He is a rank amateur.

He has regressed practically every player and blown up our team systems to ity bity terrible pieces.

There is no doubt Kruger was a better coach and would have had much more success than Eakins this year.

EDIT: Yes Dub sank our season right off the bat but even if he had played well we still wouldn't be in a playoff spot with how weak our team was playing with the systems Eakins implemented.

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12-26-2013, 06:58 PM
  #696
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad Mikowsky View Post
Is the team underperforming a result of Craig MacTavish's management?

I don't think so. In before people scream that I'm a shill or an apologist.

Look at the mess that MacT inherited from his predecessor. I know people are impatient, I cannot blame them for that. That said, it would of been foolish to think this team would magically turn from pretenders to contenders in one off season.

People shouldn't blame MacT for being inactive. In one off season, he argubally did more than Tambo did during his tenure. The Paajarvi + 2nd for Perron is turning to be one of the best trades in recent history. What was the best trade Tambo did? The Penner deal?

Free agency, unlike Tambo's magnificent blunders (Belanger, Hordichuk, Eager, Barker), so far MacT has done a good job. Ference has came as advertised, and more so (I like his off ice presence. I remember one poster calling Ference a grad A ass hat. Well that Ass hat recently donated 10k to Hope Mission.). Gordon has been even more than expected.

Unfortunately, this season died on the putrid performance of Dubnyk. Again though, I do not think that MacT is at fault for the lack of effort. People knew he was chasing Schnieder. There were even rumblings of being in on the Bernier hunt. This wasn't a GM that was content with his goalie.

However, there have been faults. I said at the start Bryzgalov would of been a nice addition back in the summer (it's nice I can be one of those blow hards that can go TOLD YOU SO). The signing of LaBarbera turned out.....well poor. Traded for a conditional pick not even a season in.

The Ladislav Smid trade was a headscratcher for sure. While I like Broissoit and Horak could be something useful, it hurt trading a dman who had grit. Actually, a player that had grit, something this team lacked. A trade like that didn't scream that the Oilers were contenders, but rebuilding. A word that quite a few fans are sick of hearing.

I won't blame this season's disaster on MacT, rather on the players failing to take the next step and be accountable. I give MacT a pass.
fair

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Originally Posted by Aerchon View Post
Mac T's player signings and trades have been good to great even. Barring Labarbra and Smid.

We clearly have a better roster this year over last year.

Mac 's coaching signing is a train wreck. Embarassing. Pathetic. Signing Eakins to 4 years is one of the dumbest moves in the history of the Edmonton Oilers.

I really hope to be eating those words in 2 years but can not fathom how Eakins can turn this team around.

He is a rank amateur.

He has regressed practically every player and blown up our team systems to ity bity terrible pieces.

There is no doubt Kruger was a better coach and would have had much more success than Eakins this year.

EDIT: Yes Dub sank our season right off the bat but even if he had played well we still wouldn't be in a playoff spot with how weak our team was playing with the systems Eakins implemented.
also fair. will Eakins end up better than Kruger? maybe, but having a coach that needs 2 ro 3 years of development is strange if not unforgiveable. Coaching is not a 'prospect' position. the head coach of an NHL hockey team should not be learning on the job.

we should not be in the business of 'drafting and developing' coaches. Just more proof that MacT didn't/doesn't expect to compete this year or next.

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12-26-2013, 07:15 PM
  #697
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The back peddling he did on his latest interview shows that he has no ****ing clue how to turn this team around.

Same Tamby bs being spewed. The guy has the best team to work with since 06 and were 29th in the league.

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12-26-2013, 08:59 PM
  #698
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Honestly he gets a fail grade from me.

4 year contract to a rookie coach (even a highly touted one) was a suspect move. Rookie GM mistake imo in the 1st place not hiring a more experienced coach along the lines of a Ruff/Tortorella type who have much more experience at the NHL level.

I can't say I was 100% against Eakins... hard to be completely against it when he's never coached at the NHL level so we don't know his NHL coaching abilities (but that's a warning sign right there with a team with as many issues as the Oilers had). Sure I was optimistic that he'd be a decent coach but he wasn't my 1st choice at all.

It's easy with 20-20 hindsight to say it was a poor move... but I find it hard to imagine a coach that would be doing worse with this current squad.

As for MacT's acquisitions... shuffling deck chairs for the most part. Fail overall there as well.

He made one solid steal among them all... Perron... and my god imagine if he didn't steal Perron. This team would be ******* bad instead of just ********* bad.

I don't know how you can give MacT/Lowe and the rest of the management group anything better than a fail grade as there is no reason this team should be where they are in the standings.

The litmus test to me is Calgary... if this team finishes behind Calgary... blow management up completely (now is a good time actually).

If Katz doesn't have the ambition or level of "give a ****" to do so.. then hire another manager one level above Lowe... call the new guy "Chief pigging operator" and let him blow all the effluent and crap out of the Oiler management pipeline.

See more about the process here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigging

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12-26-2013, 10:11 PM
  #699
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Honestly he gets a fail grade from me.

4 year contract to a rookie coach (even a highly touted one) was a suspect move. Rookie GM mistake imo in the 1st place not hiring a more experienced coach along the lines of a Ruff/Tortorella type who have much more experience at the NHL level.

I can't say I was 100% against Eakins... hard to be completely against it when he's never coached at the NHL level so we don't know his NHL coaching abilities (but that's a warning sign right there with a team with as many issues as the Oilers had). Sure I was optimistic that he'd be a decent coach but he wasn't my 1st choice at all.

It's easy with 20-20 hindsight to say it was a poor move... but I find it hard to imagine a coach that would be doing worse with this current squad.

As for MacT's acquisitions... shuffling deck chairs for the most part. Fail overall there as well.

He made one solid steal among them all... Perron... and my god imagine if he didn't steal Perron. This team would be ******* bad instead of just ********* bad.

I don't know how you can give MacT/Lowe and the rest of the management group anything better than a fail grade as there is no reason this team should be where they are in the standings.

The litmus test to me is Calgary... if this team finishes behind Calgary... blow management up completely (now is a good time actually).

If Katz doesn't have the ambition or level of "give a ****" to do so.. then hire another manager one level above Lowe... call the new guy "Chief pigging operator" and let him blow all the effluent and crap out of the Oiler management pipeline.

See more about the process here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigging
and it's deals like the Perron trade that seem to have Oilers' management thinking they can do that all the time. As if fleecing another NHL manager is the norm. If they can't completely swindle the trading partner, then they are not 'getting fair value'.

tank-draft-wait

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12-26-2013, 10:32 PM
  #700
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The Ladislav Smid trade was a headscratcher for sure. While I like Broissoit and Horak could be something useful, it hurt trading a dman who had grit. Actually, a player that had grit, something this team lacked. A trade like that didn't scream that the Oilers were contenders, but rebuilding. A word that quite a few fans are sick of hearing.

That trade was unfathomable.

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