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Mact's performance thus far.

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Old
12-26-2013, 10:49 PM
  #701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Up the Irons View Post
and it's deals like the Perron trade that seem to have Oilers' management thinking they can do that all the time. As if fleecing another NHL manager is the norm. If they can't completely swindle the trading partner, then they are not 'getting fair value'.

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The Perron trade has most of this board thinking that Mact is a master GM.

Even though (and correct me if im wrong here) he didn't even want Perron, it was the advanced stats guys that told him to trade for him.

We would be a 30th place team without the guy this season I have no doubts about that.

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12-26-2013, 10:59 PM
  #702
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Originally Posted by flashy View Post
The Perron trade has most of this board thinking that Mact is a master GM.

Even though (and correct me if im wrong here) he didn't even want Perron, it was the advanced stats guys that told him to trade for him.

We would be a 30th place team without the guy this season I have no doubts about that.
Care to enlighten the masses where you got this from?

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12-26-2013, 11:16 PM
  #703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flashy View Post
The Perron trade has most of this board thinking that Mact is a master GM.

Even though (and correct me if im wrong here) he didn't even want Perron, it was the advanced stats guys that told him to trade for him.

We would be a 30th place team without the guy this season I have no doubts about that.
Haven't heard anything about that.

But the Perron move wouldn't have happened if Mact had achieved his plan A, which was signing Clarkson to an absurd contract.

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12-26-2013, 11:21 PM
  #704
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MacT did a homerun in filling out our secondary needs.

MacT failed to solve any of our core needs. Goalie, 2C, 1D.

I find it impossible to grade him. It will inevitably involve comparing him to other GMs, but that's like grading a classroom where every kid has a different test in front of them.

Considering MacT's situation and what he accomplished, I am very pleased with his performance so far. The leash on him is still short however. If the team's core needs remain unfilled after next offseason my attitude will change.

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12-26-2013, 11:30 PM
  #705
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If he doesn't move at least one, and hopefully two, danglers for a real NHL defensemen then I will be afraid... very afraid.

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12-26-2013, 11:32 PM
  #706
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Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
Haven't heard anything about that.

But the Perron move wouldn't have happened if Mact had achieved his plan A, which was signing Clarkson to an absurd contract.
There are just too many what-ifs and hypotheticals to give that argument much weight.
  • Maybe Clarkson would have been great as an Oiler. He fills our needs better than he fills any need on the Leafs. Maybe a less skilled, grittier version of Perron would have been just as effective. It would also mean keeping Paajarvi, who definitely have more impact as an Oiler than as a Blue (as of today anyway)
  • Maybe we still would have traded for Perron even if we got Clarkson.
  • Maybe we could have traded Paajarvi and our 2nd for a different asset, and maybe they would have given as high an impact as Perron. Paajarvi was one of our assets that many, many GMs were phoning us about.

Ultimately, why go down these confusing lines of thought? Why not just keep it simple? If we're giving credit for hypotheticals then you ought to give MacT full marks for getting a #1 goalie because he gave the best offer for Schneider.

I'm not willing to take away MacT's credit for getting Perron, and I'm not willing to give him any credit for our goalie issues (except for Bryz of course, because Bryz is real). I'm also not going to judge him based on rumours and assumptions about the Clarkson contract.

Talk is cheap. I file away all the talk, speculation and other nonsense. I base my opinions on results.

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12-26-2013, 11:36 PM
  #707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
Haven't heard anything about that.

But the Perron move wouldn't have happened if Mact had achieved his plan A, which was signing Clarkson to an absurd contract.
I could just as easily, while providing no proof, to say that Perron was his plan all along.

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12-27-2013, 01:01 AM
  #708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Positive View Post
There are just too many what-ifs and hypotheticals to give that argument much weight.
  • Maybe Clarkson would have been great as an Oiler. He fills our needs better than he fills any need on the Leafs. Maybe a less skilled, grittier version of Perron would have been just as effective. It would also mean keeping Paajarvi, who definitely have more impact as an Oiler than as a Blue (as of today anyway)
  • Maybe we still would have traded for Perron even if we got Clarkson.
  • Maybe we could have traded Paajarvi and our 2nd for a different asset, and maybe they would have given as high an impact as Perron. Paajarvi was one of our assets that many, many GMs were phoning us about.

Ultimately, why go down these confusing lines of thought? Why not just keep it simple? If we're giving credit for hypotheticals then you ought to give MacT full marks for getting a #1 goalie because he gave the best offer for Schneider.

I'm not willing to take away MacT's credit for getting Perron, and I'm not willing to give him any credit for our goalie issues (except for Bryz of course, because Bryz is real). I'm also not going to judge him based on rumours and assumptions about the Clarkson contract.

Talk is cheap. I file away all the talk, speculation and other nonsense. I base my opinions on results.
I wasn't making a grand hypothetical argument, I was responding directly to another post.

If you don't think a major attempt to throw a huge pile of money at a mediocre player isn't reflective of a GM's talent evaluating abilities, capspace management, and his vision for the team - then there isn't common ground to start with.

Might want to rethink some of your hypotheticals there as well

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12-27-2013, 01:13 AM
  #709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
Haven't heard anything about that.

But the Perron move wouldn't have happened if Mact had achieved his plan A, which was signing Clarkson to an absurd contract.
The Perron deal also doesn't happen if the Blues aren't in cap trouble. Just like the Pronger deal in 2005. With the cap rising next year it's unlikely he finds another deal like that. Just like in 2006.

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12-27-2013, 02:12 AM
  #710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Positive View Post
There are just too many what-ifs and hypotheticals to give that argument much weight.
  • Maybe Clarkson would have been great as an Oiler. He fills our needs better than he fills any need on the Leafs. Maybe a less skilled, grittier version of Perron would have been just as effective. It would also mean keeping Paajarvi, who definitely have more impact as an Oiler than as a Blue (as of today anyway)
  • Maybe we still would have traded for Perron even if we got Clarkson.
  • Maybe we could have traded Paajarvi and our 2nd for a different asset, and maybe they would have given as high an impact as Perron. Paajarvi was one of our assets that many, many GMs were phoning us about.

Ultimately, why go down these confusing lines of thought? Why not just keep it simple? If we're giving credit for hypotheticals then you ought to give MacT full marks for getting a #1 goalie because he gave the best offer for Schneider.

I'm not willing to take away MacT's credit for getting Perron, and I'm not willing to give him any credit for our goalie issues (except for Bryz of course, because Bryz is real). I'm also not going to judge him based on rumours and assumptions about the Clarkson contract.

Talk is cheap. I file away all the talk, speculation and other nonsense. I base my opinions on results.
If you are basing your opinions on results, and the title of the thread is Mact's performance thus far, then he is an unmitigated disaster. The team is performing much worse than they were just one year ago.

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12-27-2013, 07:17 AM
  #711
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
If you are basing your opinions on results, and the title of the thread is Mact's performance thus far, then he is an unmitigated disaster. The team is performing much worse than they were just one year ago.
Have to agree as since the team is mired in last place again. While the Perron trade he won it hasn't helped the team in the standings. Considering the greatest need for this team was goaltending and defence and is the main reason it continues to flounder perhaps MacT should have addresses those needs instead. Fact is when you are in dead last in the west again means you are a failure to this point. And if you use the excuse that he has only been on job less than a year so has the new management and coaching team in Colorado and they have turned it around already.

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12-27-2013, 08:09 AM
  #712
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Originally Posted by rboomercat90 View Post
The Perron deal also doesn't happen if the Blues aren't in cap trouble. Just like the Pronger deal in 2005. With the cap rising next year it's unlikely he finds another deal like that. Just like in 2006.
If Perron wasn't born that trade would never of happned

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12-27-2013, 08:19 AM
  #713
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Terr-ra-awful, right? That's the group think on this? I just want to make sure I'm not missing out on that.

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12-27-2013, 09:02 AM
  #714
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I never liked the MacT hiring from day one and dislike it even more now.
He went from promising bold, culture changing moves to now saying that his primary focus is drafting and developing, might as well have kept Tambo in that case.
It seems obvious to me that he was blowing all that hot air at his introductory presser to get the fans on his side and sell them on more promises when in reality, he had no idea how hard being a GM in a capped NHL actually is. He should have just kept his damn mouth shut and gone about his business. Tons of arrogance up and down this organization with little results to show for it and MacT is a part of that.

The Perron trade was a gift and i'll give him credit for purging St. Louis who had to clear cap space but this wasn't some stroke of genius by MacT, it was just good timing.
Gordon and Ference are solid acquisitions but give it time, I have a feeling that they will start to fall victim to the apathetic culture that has been built here. Ference is already falling victim to that and I have noticed Gordon's play trailing off a bit as of late as well.
Lets also not ignore the elephant in the room which is the major bullet that he avoided when Clarkson decided to sign in Toronto for less money. If Clarkson signed here for the supposed term and dollars that MacT was throwing at him then that would have ranked up there amongst the biggest blunders in recent history.
I understand the need to get tougher but just the very idea that MacT was willing to go that big on term with Clarkson (the term is worse than the caphit IMO) frightens me to my very core.

Sure, he TRIED to upgrade the goaltending but as far as i know, they don't give out medals for trying. The bottom line is that his solution to the goaltending woes was bringing LaBarbera, I couldn't care less that he ATTEMPTED to trade for Schneider and ATTEMPTED to sign Raanta. The fact of the matter is that he failed and the team (especially early in the season) suffered for it and effectively ruined the season by Game 20. He then signs Bryzgalov after the damage was done to try and save some face.

The Belov signing was a worthwhile risk but it safely falls under the "meh" category. I just don't see a longtime NHLer in him, way too many blunders coming from him and doesn't have an NHL level shot, consistent muffins right into the glove.
He emphasizes bringing in puckmovers but seems content with puckmovers who are painfully soft and can't play a lick of defense. Larsen and Grebeshkov are examples of this.
I haven't even touched on the Smid trade, I don't think any elaboration is needed on that one. I have no idea what he was thinking there.
I was certainly not a Smid fan (started a Smid overrated thread in the offseason) but to deal him for prospects who are longshots competely boggles the mind. I know that Horak has gotten some NHL games in but I highly doubt that he's any kind of long term solution and he got maybe the 3rd or 4th best Flames goalie prospect probably because he was an Oil King once upon a time.

I forgot to even mention his draft blunder when he was desperately trying to make a deal with Holmgren (who seemed to be playing MacT for a fool basicall), got frustrated when the deal fell through and panicked by trading down for about 15 5th rounders instead of standing pat and drafting better prospects, I believe Jarry could have been had where they originally were.

I don't necessarily blame him for the coaching hire because many teams were strong after Eakins so it's not like Eakins was some unknown, he was the hot name in the offseason and MacT got him so i can't fault him there. What i do fault him for is giving a rookie coach such an awful roster to work with, that's just asking for him to fail. Eakins certainly should shoulder some of the blame but he was put in an lose lose situation with little chance for short term success and I'm sure that even Eakins was surprised at how poor the roster was that he was given to work with (Dat D and goaltending - WOOF).

The worst part about MacT being here is the logistics behind the whole hiring. The Old Boys BS that can't seem to escape this organization. This is a guy with no GM qualifications NONE while there were other much MUCH MUCH more qualified candidates out there like Nill and Lowe doesn't do any due diligence, just hands the job to MacT because that's his buddy and he feels comfortable with him. **** off.
So far, MacT is a more mouthy Tambo.
Scream about the Perron and Gordon acquisitions all you want. The bottom line is that the results are even worse now than they were under Tambo. You are what you're record says you are and with MacT apparently so in love with this core of players and apparently focusing on continuing to just draft and develop, i don't see it getting much better anytime soon.


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12-27-2013, 09:09 AM
  #715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmi Jenkins View Post
Terr-ra-awful, right? That's the group think on this? I just want to make sure I'm not missing out on that.
Sorry Jimi, we're having a party and youre not invited.

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12-27-2013, 11:14 AM
  #716
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Judging a GM at the 39 game mark after inheriting a team with issues/warts is just "j**king off".

Sorry but it takes a minimum of 2 years to start getting the team molded into what you want: that gives you time to undo what was done before. A GM's real leverage to make moves are draft day, free agency and the trade deadline. That's only a few periods in a season. The rest of the time all you have is the desperation of rookie GMs/Owners who panic.

At this point it is a work in progress and will be to mid-2016.

Improvements: Perron, Bryz, Gordon, Gazdic, Coach (J. Shultz 2012 - team effort, MacT in former role), bought out Belanger

Fails: Grebs, Smac, existing holes

Existing holes: defence, toughness/grit, size, compete

To look forward to - delayed moves for 2014 off-season/trade deadline: Hemsky, Dubnyk, Smyth, 2014 1st rounder, cap increase

Looking at the cap space I see an easy $20MM free this summer with J. Shultz and Petry to sign. It could be as high as $25MM depending on who is moved out: Smyth, Jones, N. Shultz, Hemsky, Dubnyk, etc.

Post this thread again during this time in 2016 and there will be a better informed assessment.

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12-27-2013, 11:22 AM
  #717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarus View Post
I wasn't making a grand hypothetical argument, I was responding directly to another post.

If you don't think a major attempt to throw a huge pile of money at a mediocre player isn't reflective of a GM's talent evaluating abilities, capspace management, and his vision for the team - then there isn't common ground to start with.

Might want to rethink some of your hypotheticals there as well
As already stated we have no idea how Clarkson would have performed here. IMO he'd have more points then he does with the leafs for sure.

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12-27-2013, 12:20 PM
  #718
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
If you are basing your opinions on results, and the title of the thread is Mact's performance thus far, then he is an unmitigated disaster. The team is performing much worse than they were just one year ago.
Only those who are somewhat less than deep thinkers or those with an agenda could possibly evaluate a GM's performance, who has been on the job for all of 6 months,based on a teams performance for 4 months.
Take your pick.

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12-27-2013, 12:24 PM
  #719
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MacT did a homerun in filling out our secondary needs.

MacT failed to solve any of our core needs. Goalie, 2C, 1D
A homerun filling out secondary needs? Then why does this team have the worst bottom 6 in the league and absolutely embarrassing defensive depth?

Outside of the Perron trade, MacT has been an epic fail.

The team is worse this year than last year despite the fact that we've had the opportunity to play so many East teams this year where as last year was only the west.
In fact, this is quite literally the worst team we have ever seen the Oilers ice. The team actually managed to take a minor step forward last year and has come plummeting back down with the additions of MacT and Eakins.

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12-27-2013, 12:32 PM
  #720
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
If you are basing your opinions on results, and the title of the thread is Mact's performance thus far, then he is an unmitigated disaster. The team is performing much worse than they were just one year ago.
Since when do apologists base their opinions on results? It's all about potential and the potential is so much better under the new guy. Anybody with rose colored glasses can see that.

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12-27-2013, 12:37 PM
  #721
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Yes, Toronto is different than Edmonton. However, I have no doubt that if we had won the Clarkson sweepstakes, we'd be no better off than where we are now. Just like it has in Toronto, it likely would have gone down as one of the worst moves of the offseason. MacT is very lucky that Clarkson didn't sign here. Those are the kind of moves that set franchises back years.

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12-27-2013, 12:56 PM
  #722
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Since when do apologists base their opinions on results? It's all about potential and the potential is so much better under the new guy. Anybody with rose colored glasses can see that.
Well, basing a new GM's performance on his teams performance for 4 months is just a little obtuse some might say. It usually take slightly more than 6 months for a new GM to make the neccesary moves that are reflected in on ice performance.

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12-27-2013, 12:58 PM
  #723
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Well, basing a new GM's performance on his teams performance for 4 months is just a little obtuse some might say. It usually take slightly more than 6 months for a new GM to make the neccesary moves that are reflected in on ice performance.
Okay, so we can judge him once the trade deadline rolls around? Sounds good.

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12-27-2013, 12:59 PM
  #724
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Well, basing a new GM's performance on his teams performance for 4 months is just a little obtuse some might say. It usually take slightly more than 6 months for a new GM to make the neccesary moves that are reflected in on ice performance.
He had the draft and the summer and he rolled snake eyes. Hired the worst coach in franchise history and is on pace for one of if not the worst seasons in franchise history. The thread is about his performance so far, and so far it blows.

Predictably predictable.

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12-27-2013, 01:14 PM
  #725
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He had the draft and the summer and he rolled snake eyes. Hired the worst coach in franchise history and is on pace for one of if not the worst seasons in franchise history. The thread is about his performance so far, and so far it blows.

Predictably predictable.
Signed Belov, Gordon. Hit a home run in trading for Perron. Made a great trade at the draft. Signed Bryzgalov.
Again, evaluating a GM's performance who has been 6 months on the job based on a teams performance for 4 months is incredibly shallow.
But not surprising

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