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Old
01-15-2007, 08:33 AM
  #26
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Oh look! It's the monthly Sheldon Souray thread!

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01-15-2007, 08:48 AM
  #27
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While the Habs have been sliding a bit recently, Souray is a huge reason they're 4th in the east this year. Most of the other Oil fans on this board have been under-rating him tremendously.
There are better defencemen out there and ideally the oilers would be able to get that defenceman. But I think you'd be very hard pressed to find one that's available.

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01-15-2007, 09:15 AM
  #28
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Living in New Brunswick where most of my friends are habs fans I get to see a bunch of Habs games and I can tell you Souray is not what we need on the Oilers. He is an ok defenceman, but he is basically a Brian Mccabe clone (He has a great shot which allows him to rack the points up on the powerplay). He is tough and will drop the gloves with anyone and will trow the occational big hit. But he is weak in his own end, not goot possionaly and is basically bailled out by Huet most nights. If you watch a lot of habs game they are brutal if there not on the power play, mind you when they are on the powerplay they look amazing, and the main reason there penalty kill is so good is because Huet is so good. But if there is a Habs defenseman that would look good on this team its Markov, he has an excellent first pass and is great defensively, and when he gets his 5+ million a year he won't be overpayed unlike Souray.

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01-15-2007, 09:32 AM
  #29
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I agree with all the posts in here, who in their right mind would want a tank-sized defenseman who fights, sticks up for his goalie in front of the net game in and game out, is one of the most under-rated leaders in today's NHL, and has more points as a defenseman than most (if not all) Edmonton forwards.

Umm..? I'm sorry but yeah although he is not the best shutdown D-man in the league, what do you want?


Souray's rocket from the point not only scares the crap out of PKers but it also opens up huge options on the PP for whoever he is playing for, seeing as he is going to be covered extensively as soon as he gets the puck. That extra coverage on him opens up avenues for his team-mates to take advantage of. In our case Kovalev gets to roam a bit more which works out because the more space for him, the better things are likely to go. It also allows Ryder who cannot playmake at all to walk into the slot and go for a snipe-shot. These are all things that couldn't happen unless Souray was out there. And those teams who do not cover Souray enough get burned - with either a puck in the back of their net or the most painful shot block of their life. I don't agree with Souray being a $6,000,000 player but this luxery on the PP is easily the reason why Montreal is ranked #1 on the PP so often this season. Is Edmonton too good to have a #1 ranked powerplay, because a player like Sheldon can do it for you.

He is not a perfect defenseman but you can't say he is not a rare breed of defenseman who you wouldn't want on your team -- I can't see a team in the league who wouldn't benefit from having Sheldon Souray on their roster.

And to those who think he is exploding recently because of his contract, this past summer was the first summer he practiced accuracy from a point slapshot for the majority of his time off. Before this season he said he had trouble controlling it and now that he can get a hold of where he wants it to go he is seeing more success

</end Souray fanboy post >

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01-15-2007, 10:37 AM
  #30
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God please, no more Souray threads PLEASE. He sucks. He's Bryan McCabe, All PP shot and no defense. The guy should be playing forward as a power forward, he'd do better.

TSN did a top 10 goals ON Souray last year. It was brilliant. The guy gets lit up more than Theodore. He adds nothing to the Oilers that we don't already have. We have Stoll and Bergeron as our big shots on the PP. We have no need for a guy that will be UFA at the end of the season and we won't be able to resign.

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01-15-2007, 11:18 AM
  #31
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Sheldon Souray is FAR from the answer to our problems, i'm not sure what your bragging about here. We have a younger cheaper version of him in Bergeron.

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01-15-2007, 02:38 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edmund Oiler View Post
I didn't mean to brag. Just wanted a few of you to eat crow. And to those who still argue, you have no credibility with me. He's 10x better than ANYTHING we have back there right now and you need to get your head out of your ***.

I am not a Sheldon Souray fan. Guys that much of the complete package are rare. Just being realistic. He won't go to Edmonton anyways. Wants the sun and west coast so it's a dead issue
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Originally Posted by Edmund Oiler View Post
Laughing my bloody *** off at the post that MAB is better than Souray.

You, my friend, are a complete idiot. Moron. Bafoon.

Worst post I have ever read here BAR NONE!!!!

MAB should not be in the NHL never mind one of our top 4.

Wow. Completely...wow.
Wow, when all you have on internet boards is a reputation, you are really not making a name for yourself.

Souray is better then MAB, but I would rather have MAB all things considered. Bergeron and Stoll have rifles from the point as well so there is no need for him. He runs around a lot in his own end. He is great offensively but for 5+ I would hope for more of a 2-way player, a Brad Stuart like guy.

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01-15-2007, 03:04 PM
  #33
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The problem guys is that you want a other Chris Pronger but there is only one Chris Pronger and he now plays for the Ducks.

You guys are greatly underrating Souray.

Souray had a few crappy years since the beginning of his career, but you need to understand that he was marks as 6-7 physical defenseman. No one saw in Souray the offensive potential, until 2003-2004. Since this period, Souray has always been a offensive threat (except his slow start last year when he had conjugual problems). So Souray is building his offensive abilities only since 3 or 4 years.

I know that you all saw Souray getting beat 1 on 1 by Spezza. It was spectacular and he sure looks silly on that play. But most of the time, Souray is not that bad in his own zone, in fact , this year, he is better defensively than Rivet, Bouillon and Dandenault. Souray has a great arms range and he s very good at taking out rebound from the goalie. Plus , his mobility his superior to what it was in his previous years.

Offensively, Souray is without a doubt our biggest treat. His shot is just amazing and if he have the time to shoot, most of the time, it will be a goal. His stats are far from being overrated, he honestly deserve all the points he had.

Without Souray, the Habs , without a single doubt, would not be 4th in the east standing.

Plus, Souray is bringing a ton of leadership and rarely take a night off. So mostly on this point, I think he is a more interesting player than McCabe.

And for those who said that Bergeron is better than Souray, you really need watch a Habs hockey game. Souray is not only slapping from the point. His wrist shot is extremely quick and accurate, so he can run to the net and do a great shot (just like he did against Buffalo in OT a few weeks ago). His passing abilities and his moblity are much better than it was in his previous years.

In conclusion, Souray is not a great defensive defenseman, but most of the time, he won't hurt the team and he can even do a very good job some nights. He is a constant offensive treat and the only reason why our PP was first in the league for a few weeks.

But Souray is not Chris Pronger. If you are looking for a Pronger clone, you will look for a really long time.

Oh and btw, I didn't write this because I hope that the Habs will trade Souray. Honestly, I hope that Gainey will resign him, even if he asks 5M$ for the next years.

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01-15-2007, 03:12 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrrus147 View Post
The problem guys is that you want a other Chris Pronger but there is only one Chris Pronger and he now plays for the Ducks.

You guys are greatly underrating Souray.

Souray had a few crappy years since the beginning of his career, but you need to understand that he was marks as 6-7 physical defenseman. No one saw in Souray the offensive potential, until 2003-2004. Since this period, Souray has always been a offensive threat (except his slow start last year when he had conjugual problems). So Souray is building his offensive abilities only since 3 or 4 years.

I know that you all saw Souray getting beat 1 on 1 by Spezza. It was spectacular and he sure looks silly on that play. But most of the time, Souray is not that bad in his own zone, in fact , this year, he is better defensively than Rivet, Bouillon and Dandenault. Souray has a great arms range and he s very good at taking out rebound from the goalie. Plus , his mobility his superior to what it was in his previous years.

Offensively, Souray is without a doubt our biggest treat. His shot is just amazing and if he have the time to shoot, most of the time, it will be a goal. His stats are far from being overrated, he honestly deserve all the points he had.

Without Souray, the Habs , without a single doubt, would not be 4th in the east standing.

Plus, Souray is bringing a ton of leadership and rarely take a night off. So mostly on this point, I think he is a more interesting player than McCabe.

And for those who said that Bergeron is better than Souray, you really need watch a Habs hockey game. Souray is not only slapping from the point. His wrist shot is extremely quick and accurate, so he can run to the net and do a great shot (just like he did against Buffalo in OT a few weeks ago). His passing abilities and his moblity are much better than it was in his previous years.

In conclusion, Souray is not a great defensive defenseman, but most of the time, he won't hurt the team and he can even do a very good job some nights. He is a constant offensive treat and the only reason why our PP was first in the league for a few weeks.

But Souray is not Chris Pronger. If you are looking for a Pronger clone, you will look for a really long time.

Oh and btw, I didn't write this because I hope that the Habs will trade Souray. Honestly, I hope that Gainey will resign him, even if he asks 5M$ for the next years.
Its not that we are looking for a Chris Pronger Clone, We are looking for a top pairing Defenceman, basically someone who is sound defensively and can run a powerplay. Basically we are looking for a Markov not a Souray.

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01-15-2007, 03:15 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyrrus147 View Post
The problem guys is that you want a other Chris Pronger but there is only one Chris Pronger and he now plays for the Ducks.

You guys are greatly underrating Souray.

Souray had a few crappy years since the beginning of his career, but you need to understand that he was marks as 6-7 physical defenseman. No one saw in Souray the offensive potential, until 2003-2004. Since this period, Souray has always been a offensive threat (except his slow start last year when he had conjugual problems). So Souray is building his offensive abilities only since 3 or 4 years.

I know that you all saw Souray getting beat 1 on 1 by Spezza. It was spectacular and he sure looks silly on that play. But most of the time, Souray is not that bad in his own zone, in fact , this year, he is better defensively than Rivet, Bouillon and Dandenault. Souray has a great arms range and he s very good at taking out rebound from the goalie. Plus , his mobility his superior to what it was in his previous years.

Offensively, Souray is without a doubt our biggest treat. His shot is just amazing and if he have the time to shoot, most of the time, it will be a goal. His stats are far from being overrated, he honestly deserve all the points he had.

Without Souray, the Habs , without a single doubt, would not be 4th in the east standing.

Plus, Souray is bringing a ton of leadership and rarely take a night off. So mostly on this point, I think he is a more interesting player than McCabe.

And for those who said that Bergeron is better than Souray, you really need watch a Habs hockey game. Souray is not only slapping from the point. His wrist shot is extremely quick and accurate, so he can run to the net and do a great shot (just like he did against Buffalo in OT a few weeks ago). His passing abilities and his moblity are much better than it was in his previous years.

In conclusion, Souray is not a great defensive defenseman, but most of the time, he won't hurt the team and he can even do a very good job some nights. He is a constant offensive treat and the only reason why our PP was first in the league for a few weeks.

But Souray is not Chris Pronger. If you are looking for a Pronger clone, you will look for a really long time.

Oh and btw, I didn't write this because I hope that the Habs will trade Souray. Honestly, I hope that Gainey will resign him, even if he asks 5M$ for the next years.
God... read the thread before you post man.

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01-15-2007, 03:26 PM
  #36
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Its not that we are looking for a Chris Pronger Clone, We are looking for a top pairing Defenceman, basically someone who is sound defensively and can run a powerplay. Basically we are looking for a Markov not a Souray.
Ahhh ok well, from this point of view, the Oilers don't need Souray. You need a general at the blue line. A guy like Kaberle, Redden , Markov etc.... . I really like the Oilers and I hope that you will be able to find this kind of defenseman, the problem is that most of those guys are build into their organisation and once they start doing their job, they become untouchable. And Sadly, Mike Milbury is gone, so there is no GM who will accept to trade a guy like that.

Those guys become often the core of your team. Last year , when Markov was injured, we were 3-9-3. This sequence shows us how important was this guy.

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01-15-2007, 03:27 PM
  #37
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God... read the thread before you post man.
I read the whole thread before posting, it was not a answer to the core subject of the thread but it was a answer to some replies that I read inside this post, mostly coming from some Oilers fans.

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01-15-2007, 03:41 PM
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Ahhh ok well, from this point of view, the Oilers don't need Souray. You need a general at the blue line. A guy like Kaberle, Redden , Markov etc.... . I really like the Oilers and I hope that you will be able to find this kind of defenseman, the problem is that most of those guys are build into their organisation and once they start doing their job, they become untouchable. And Sadly, Mike Milbury is gone, so there is no GM who will accept to trade a guy like that.

Those guys become often the core of your team. Last year , when Markov was injured, we were 3-9-3. This sequence shows us how important was this guy.
Well Markov is a free Agent this year, maybe we can steal him away from you guys.

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01-15-2007, 03:52 PM
  #39
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Well Markov is a free Agent this year, maybe we can steal him away from you guys.
haha, well like I said earlier, I really like the Oilers and if Markov is to leave, it would be nice that he would do it to go with the Oilers. But resigning Markov is a priority for the Habs and Gainey will resign him , probably at 5 or 5,5M$. lol even Souray said in interview that Markov is more important than him and that Gainey need to sign him first.

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01-15-2007, 10:36 PM
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My apologies for assuming you meant MAB was better than Souray.

However, MAB should not even be in the NHL. Period. He is absolutely, positively brutal beyond words.

God lord. How can anybody say they would rather have MAB over anyone, never mind an allstar. Just because he has a boomer that either hits the goalie dead centre in his crest or it goes 10 feet wide? What player have you been watching man? Not to mention, in his own zone, he is the worst defenceman I have ever seen in an Oiler uniform. WORST EVER! In over 20 years, i can't think of a guy who scares me in his own zone more. Even Ulanov! Stop being blind Oiler faithful.

MARC ANDRE BERGERON SHOULD NOT BE IN THE NHL AT ALL AND YOU WOULD TAKE HIM OVER SHELDON SOURAY???

You obviously only watch one team. The Oilers. You know very little past your own nose. There isn't a single Oiler fan that should be putting down other defencemen in the league when we have this cast. They are embarrassing and Kevin Lowe needs to be held accountable for thinking they could get the job done. "We'll beat you to 10" was his theory and sorry, this isn't 1986. Unless something happens soon, the Edmonton Oilers will finish last. I hate to admit it.


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Old
01-15-2007, 10:57 PM
  #41
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In all honesty, I don't see any way Souray can be on Lowe's radar.

He's just a rich man's Bergeron. A slight upgrade on the slapshot and defensive play, a minor downgrade in the speed department.

If Lowe were even interested him in the first place, there's no way he's going to make a deal seeing as how now the man's trade value/salary expectations have skyrocketed with his recent play and All-Star selection.

What the Oilers need is more than just one defenseman, we need an overhaul of our system, a "changing of the guard". Souray simply does not address our problems, and is an expensive version of Bergeron with an upside. Bringing him here does nothing to solidify our team now, or for the future.

In all honesty, Steve Staios/Jason Smith/Daniel Tjarnqvist, as our veterans, are one of the oldest, least effective defensive core in the league. Signing Staios to such an overpayment makes him impossible to move, and a cap punishment for years to come, however if we can get rid of Gator/Shaggy, I think we can get a little something done.

I don't mind keeping Smid/Greene/Bergeron/Staios, but I think we're due to spend around another 5-6 million on our blue line heading into this off-season. And I think what we need is:

1) Young Power-play Quarterback with puck-moving ability
John Michael Liles, Joni Pitkannen, Duncan Keith, etc
Youth is the key, as acquiring someone like this allows us to keep this asset for a long time. Also, they can work with Smid into developing into our future PP D-men. If youth is impossible, I'd bring in veteran PP specialist like Rafalski (who is also defensively responsible) to help Smid develop, as well as aid the break-out.

2) Solid 2-way Veteran
Adrian Aucoin, Roman Hamrlik, Jovo/Kaberle/Mccabe, you get the point
Someone like this will be our top defenseman in the upcoming year, at least until defenseman 1) above and Smid develop into solid 2-way dmen. This way, not only will we have a defensively-sound lineup of Staios/Veteran/Greene, but a minute-logging defenseman who we can depend on (unlike Tjarnqvist).

Moves like this compromise the future of our offense, and brings into question the potential re-signings of the likes of Sykora/Smyth. IMO, we can afford to drop Sykora. We could see Lupul/Torres leaving in a deal for a defenseman, and freeing up some cap-space there. IMO for Lowe, these are his off-season priorities:

1) Assess the Smyth situtation and get him signed long-term at around 5.2/year

2) Fix the defense with trades/signings, essentially expanding our budget for the defense while lowering it for overpaid forwards (make sure that the defensemen are signed long-term at all costs)

3) Find a way to deal Horcoff/Pisani to free up cash for a REAL center. Simaltaneously, we should be assessing who we can afford to keep, etc. (Sykora/Reasoner/Nedved, etc)

4) Use the draft picks wisely, addressing the main needs of the organization, including: blue-chip defensive prospects, effective offensive forwards. Trading them should not be out of the question, as they are valuable come draft-time in acquiring assets.

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01-15-2007, 10:58 PM
  #42
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My apologies for assuming you meant MAB was better than Souray.

However, MAB should not even be in the NHL. Period. He is absolutely, positively brutal beyond words.

God lord. How can anybody say they would rather have MAB over anyone, never mind an allstar. Just because he has a boomer that either hits the goalie dead centre in his crest or it goes 10 feet wide? What player have you been watching man? Not to mention, in his own zone, he is the worst defenceman I have ever seen in an Oiler uniform. WORST EVER! In over 20 years, i can't think of a guy who scares me in his own zone more. Even Ulanov! Stop being blind Oiler faithful.

MARC ANDRE BERGERON SHOULD NOT BE IN THE NHL AT ALL AND YOU WOULD TAKE HIM OVER SHELDON SOURAY???

You obviously only watch one team. The Oilers. You know very little past your own nose. There isn't a single Oiler fan that should be putting down other defencemen in the league when we have this cast. They are embarrassing and Kevin Lowe needs to be held accountable for thinking they could get the job done. "We'll beat you to 10" was his theory and sorry, this isn't 1986. Unless something happens soon, the Edmonton Oilers will finish last. I hate to admit it.
Bergeron at his price, I'd say, is the same value as Souray for the money he's going to get in the off-season

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01-15-2007, 11:03 PM
  #43
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What part of "Marc Andre Bergeron should not be in the NHL" didn't you hear? It doesn't matter what his value is or what his contract is! AHLer at best and he is quarterbacking our PP !! . What does that say??? Gee-sus He looks like a scared pathetic little boy playing with men.

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01-15-2007, 11:19 PM
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What part of "Marc Andre Bergeron should not be in the NHL" didn't you hear? It doesn't matter what his value is or what his contract is! AHLer at best and he is quarterbacking our PP !! . What does that say??? Gee-sus He looks like a scared pathetic little boy playing with men.
He's QBing jack ****. The PPQB doesn't need to be a D-man, it can be a forward. Hemsky is the man QBing our PP. I don't even call our 2nd unit a PP, i call it a waste of a minute. Bergeron, IMHO, should be converted into a freakin' forward. Can you imagine a defensively-aware forward like him working the slot on the forecheck, as well as the point on the PP. Wouldn't be too bad IMO, just a lot of training. Whether or not he's showing it right now, I see some type of NHL-ability in this kid, but its not going to involve playing the defense position like Neidermeyer. I'd keep him for his shot on the PP, and for me that's good enough.

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01-15-2007, 11:26 PM
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Just because he took some goalie's mask off this year doesn't mean he has a good shot. Or because he wins a skills competition. Like I said, it either hits the goalie, or it misses the net. Or for the most case, he is a scared little runt who can't get the shot away in time because he panics.

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01-15-2007, 11:31 PM
  #46
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He won't go to Edmonton anyways. Wants the sun and west coast so it's a dead issue
Oh don't believe the BS you hear in the media, just because his daughter is out on the West Coast now and he wants to be closer to her. I mean of course he would, but he'll want to go to the place that is clear cut the perfect situation for him, and that includes the most money a team would be offering. And besides that, he's closer to her if he simply plays in the Western Conference! Would he come to Edmonton? If we offered him a little more money then everyone then yeah I bet he would. I bet he'll go to Nashville if they offer him a little more money then everyone as well. Same thing with NYR, or Philly, or Pittsburgh, or Colorado, or LA, or San Jose. I bet this, I bet if we would have got him before this season, we would have 3 or 4 more wins, but we wouldn't be that much better, because he's not a GREAT puck mover, which is what this team lacks the most. We would have a bit better PP, this teams biggest PP problem however is that it doesn't have enough movement, both puck wise(going all around rather then with the 3 guys at the top of the umbrella) or by the players.

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01-15-2007, 11:32 PM
  #47
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Just because he took some goalie's mask off this year doesn't mean he has a good shot. Or because he wins a skills competition. Like I said, it either hits the goalie, or it misses the net. Or for the most case, he is a scared little runt who can't get the shot away in time because he panics.

I'm not going to bother arguing with you about this. You've seen his shot, it's been responsible for 50% of our PP goals (have you noticed how every time Stoll scores you see the guy responsible for covering the point standing up against Bergeron? Teams know he has a rocket, and that is priority #1 when they play the Oilers PP). His defensive game is questionable, but it's worthy of a 6th defenseman, whose main priority is to play PP minutes. Is he in the right role in Edmonton? No, he shouldn't be playing anywhere past 18 minutes a game. But with our depth, he's been elevated to a position of Top 4 defenseman, which is essentially why he seems so AHL-worthy in you opinion

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01-16-2007, 12:21 AM
  #48
Loweball
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 1,932
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Hemsky 83 you are totally right. He should be a borderline NHL player, 6th guy like you said and playing far less but because of our depth, his minutes are obviously elevated. I couldn't have said it better myself. Really. So, something has to be done and soon and we call just chill and agree on that right? It looks desperate right now. And we have money and assets to move so let's hope Klo is working on something because we are fading fast.

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