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NHL Draft - Prospects Discuss hockey prospects from all over the world and the NHL Draft.

2012 Draft Top 10 redone today...

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Old
12-27-2013, 03:32 PM
  #176
FamilyGuy716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike203 View Post
You're living in a dream world if you think Ceci is "a clear step above Girgensons" right now. Ceci has just played 7 games in the NHL.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Right, and Drouin has never played in the NHL before, but I'm sure that most people would say that he's a 'clear step above Girgensons' also.
Wow... there are so many things wrong with your argument.

Drouin is not 2012
Drouin is a top 3 pick in a great draft year
Ceci was drafted below Girgensons

You can't compare apples to oranges. I wasn't arguing that you had to be in the NHL and how many games you've played. What I was arguing is...

We all know the basic facts that Ceci was drafted below Girgenson (1 pick below). How can Ceci be a step above him if Girgensons has played more games in the NHL AND is playing great, especially since Ted Nolan took over.

If we take your argument to absurdity, let's compare Drouin to McDavid.

BTW... I don't know if I would take Drouin over Girgensons. Only Sabres fans would think this way and I know I'll take flak for this but he's a beast.

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Old
12-27-2013, 03:36 PM
  #177
KEEROLE Vatanen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
The lack of Ceci on a lot of lists is disappointing. At this point he is a clear step above guys like Reinhart, Pouliot, Girgensons, Wilson, etc. and he's still got a ton of potential.

It's really hard to place some of these guys though. Yakupov clearly has a ton of skill and talent, but has regressed a ridiculous amount. Gally I don't think has the best potential but is probably the safest to reach it.

1. Galchenyuk
2. Yakupov
3. Lindholm
4. Ceci
5. Hertl
6. Forsberg (I still really like him)
7. Murray
8. Maata
9. Trouba
10. Rielly
ceci above murray, trouba, hertl and girgensens is ridiculous(at this point and time)

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Old
12-27-2013, 03:53 PM
  #178
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Based on what they've achieved so far, a lot of these lists significantly underrate Trouba.

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Old
12-27-2013, 04:07 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
The lack of Ceci on a lot of lists is disappointing. At this point he is a clear step above guys like Reinhart, Pouliot, Girgensons, Wilson, etc. and he's still got a ton of potential.

It's really hard to place some of these guys though. Yakupov clearly has a ton of skill and talent, but has regressed a ridiculous amount. Gally I don't think has the best potential but is probably the safest to reach it.

1. Galchenyuk
2. Yakupov
3. Lindholm
4. Ceci
5. Hertl
6. Forsberg (I still really like him)
7. Murray
8. Maata
9. Trouba
10. Rielly
Ceci and 4 and Trouba at 9. Wow thats bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToursLepantoVienna View Post
Based on what they've achieved so far, a lot of these lists significantly underrate Trouba.
Agreed. He Lindholm and Murray will easily be the 3 best defenders out of this draft. I wouldn't trade Lindholm for him but it is close.

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Old
12-27-2013, 04:18 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike203 View Post
As a Sabres fan, there has been a serious underrating of Girgensons. He should be in the top 5 if we're talking about a 2 way hockey player with all intangibles. If we're just taking about offensive potential, then he out of top 10.
I love Girgensons but I can't see who in the top 5 he displaces: Galchenyuk, Murray,Trouba, Lindholm, Hertl and Yak are all above him IMO and you still have others like Rielly and Maata who are pretty close to himas well.

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Old
12-27-2013, 04:27 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike203 View Post
As a Sabres fan, there has been a serious underrating of Girgensons. He should be in the top 5 if we're talking about a 2 way hockey player with all intangibles. If we're just taking about offensive potential, then he out of top 10.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
I love Girgensons but I can't see who in the top 5 he displaces: Galchenyuk, Murray,Trouba, Lindholm, Hertl and Yak are all above him IMO and you still have others like Rielly and Maata who are pretty close to himas well.
I agree after looking at list of who he replaces. I can put him between 6-8 as of today but if he keeps up the scoring of late, I have to put him in the top 5.

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Old
12-27-2013, 04:32 PM
  #182
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The New York isles defer their participation in the 2012 draft poll till 2015. Thank you to this committee for you patience and understanding.us

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Old
12-27-2013, 05:06 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Mr Forever View Post
Some of these lists are hilarious
This. I don't get the point of these threads. Are they ranking them how they would draft them if they could re-do the draft? Or are they ranking ten on how much success they've had recently or how NHL ready they are?

I'm confused. Just horrible lists.

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Old
12-27-2013, 05:09 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
Ceci and 4 and Trouba at 9. Wow thats bad.
Why is that bad?

Quote:
Agreed. He Lindholm and Murray will easily be the 3 best defenders out of this draft. I wouldn't trade Lindholm for him but it is close.
I don't know about easily. Maatta and Ceci are beast two way defenders that are also quite large and have a great pedigree. They've also been extremely successful at every level (not that those three haven't been).

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Old
12-27-2013, 06:34 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
The lack of Ceci on a lot of lists is disappointing. At this point he is a clear step above guys like Reinhart, Pouliot, Girgensons, Wilson, etc. and he's still got a ton of potential.

It's really hard to place some of these guys though. Yakupov clearly has a ton of skill and talent, but has regressed a ridiculous amount. Gally I don't think has the best potential but is probably the safest to reach it.

1. Galchenyuk
2. Yakupov
3. Lindholm
4. Ceci
5. Hertl
6. Forsberg (I still really like him)
7. Murray
8. Maata
9. Trouba
10. Rielly
First thread I read today and I already find a gem.

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Old
12-27-2013, 06:57 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
First thread I read today and I already find a gem.
Interesting.

Please, could you compare Ceci and Trouba and explain to me why you think Trouba is better?

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Old
12-27-2013, 07:02 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Why is that bad?



I don't know about easily. Maatta and Ceci are beast two way defenders that are also quite large and have a great pedigree. They've also been extremely successful at every level (not that those three haven't been).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Interesting.

Please, could you compare Ceci and Trouba and explain to me why you think Trouba is better?
Because we have watched them play and see that Trouba is by far the furthest along in development.

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Old
12-27-2013, 07:16 PM
  #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gliff View Post
Because we have watched them play and see that Trouba is by far the furthest along in development.
A draft is not based solely on who is further along, but who has more potential. That said I've watched them both and I like Ceci better right now in terms of what he brings to the team and the ice. As soon as Ceci was called up to Ottawa they've done a near 180 in terms of on ice play. Not solely due to him, but he's been huge for the team so far. He was also dominating the AHL before being called up, and was a monster in junior.

Trouba has not stood out as much IMO in the Jets games I've seen as Ceci has in Ottawa.

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Old
12-27-2013, 07:22 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Zamuz View Post
Different? Scouts assumed that those players had higher upside, but they didn't. Who would draft a player #1 who can't stay as a NHL regular?

I'm only saying that especially people in these forums should be quiet about players upsides, and how other player is capable of scoring 100 points, when there is no freaking proof, only that he has potted +2ppg in junior leagues. However I also said that there are players who's upsides can be noticed early, but those are only really the players that go in top-5 of drafts. We talk about Grigs and Girgs, drafted very close to each other, outside the top-10. I'd say there is no clue which player has higher upside at this point, right now it shows that the player is Girgensons, as he is actually producing in the NHL.
Actually Daigle had a very high-upside, while Stefan did not have as high of an upside. Daigle is a fine example of a high-upside prospect who did not live up to his potential.

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Old
12-27-2013, 07:39 PM
  #190
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I'm not disappointed to hear it but is Galchenyuk pretty much the clear cut #1 guy?

Is 2012 considered an average draft or better or worse?

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Old
12-27-2013, 07:54 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by CallMeJerry View Post
I'm not disappointed to hear it but is Galchenyuk pretty much the clear cut #1 guy?

Is 2012 considered an average draft or better or worse?
We won't know how strong this draft is until maybe 4-5 years down the road. I mean most guys haven't played an NHL game yet.

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Old
12-27-2013, 09:32 PM
  #192
KEEROLE Vatanen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
A draft is not based solely on who is further along, but who has more potential. That said I've watched them both and I like Ceci better right now in terms of what he brings to the team and the ice. As soon as Ceci was called up to Ottawa they've done a near 180 in terms of on ice play. Not solely due to him, but he's been huge for the team so far. He was also dominating the AHL before being called up, and was a monster in junior.

Trouba has not stood out as much IMO in the Jets games I've seen as Ceci has in Ottawa.
Trouba has major potential himself and also happens to be ahead in development....hard to rank Ceci above.....right now, maybe a year from now it's a different story...

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Old
12-27-2013, 09:35 PM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
The lack of Ceci on a lot of lists is disappointing. At this point he is a clear step above guys like Reinhart, Pouliot, Girgensons, Wilson, etc. and he's still got a ton of potential.

It's really hard to place some of these guys though. Yakupov clearly has a ton of skill and talent, but has regressed a ridiculous amount. Gally I don't think has the best potential but is probably the safest to reach it.

1. Galchenyuk
2. Yakupov
3. Lindholm
4. Ceci
5. Hertl
6. Forsberg (I still really like him)
7. Murray
8. Maata
9. Trouba
10. Rielly
Homerism at it's finest.

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Old
12-27-2013, 09:48 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by SabreOil View Post
Man I love Girgs as much as any other sabres fan but Galchenyuk can be a number 1 center(90 point player) in the coming years where as I feel Girgensons will top out as a 2nd liner(LA Kings Mike Richards).

I'd go
1. Galchenyuk
2. Yakupov(He will 1 day figure it out)
3. Murray
4. Girgensons
5. Trouba
6. Hertl
7. Lindholm
8. Reinhart
9. Rielly
10. Forsberg/Laughton
lol. mike richards is not a second line player in general. he happens to be on an elite team. hes a first line center on most teams.

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Old
12-27-2013, 10:14 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Calirose View Post
lol. mike richards is not a second line player in general. he happens to be on an elite team. hes a first line center on most teams.
If he's a first line center on "most" teams, then you're implying he's a top 15 center in hockey. I think I can name at least 20 centers I'd take over Mike Richards at this point in his career.

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Old
12-27-2013, 10:14 PM
  #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Lol at Girgensons at #4. He's been great on a bad team but he's not above any of Trouba, Hertl, Lindholm, or Rielly.

Alex Galchenyuk
Ryan Murray
Nail Yakupov
--
Trouba, Hertl, Maatta, Rielly, and Lindholm in some order are 4-8.
--
Ceci, Forsberg, Grigorenko, Laughton, Teravainen, and Girgensons are 9-15 in some order.


Skaters who definitely went way too high are Pouliot, Reinhart, Dumba, Koekkoek, Faksa, and Wilson.

Steal of the second round IMHO is going to be Jake McCabe.

People need to stop discounting Murray and Yakupov. Murray has been spectacular this season, despite his injury last and will still be the best defenseman from this draft. And Yakupov is mostly suffering from poor linemates, a terrible system, a coach that isn't good for him, and sporadic ice time. If you put Yakupov in a good system, he'd thrive.
Girgensons had another great game tonight, just ask Toronto. He might not be #4 right now but he's not far from it (6-8 imo) and he's closing in on top 5.

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Old
12-27-2013, 10:32 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Mike203 View Post
As a Sabres fan, there has been a serious underrating of Girgensons. He should be in the top 5 if we're talking about a 2 way hockey player with all intangibles. If we're just taking about offensive potential, then he out of top 10.
Not sure i even agree with that last sentence. I think folks also are seriously under rating zemgus' offense. He's the kind of guy who will get monster minutes and constantly be put on the ice in must-score opportunities. That will translate to a disproportionate number of points.

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Old
12-27-2013, 10:40 PM
  #198
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How far people drop Reilly is interesting. He's shown as much potential as players people have jumped over him.

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Old
12-27-2013, 10:41 PM
  #199
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1) Galchenyuk
We've all seen him, he's damn, damn good, with huge upside.

2/3) Yakupov/Hertl
Tough for me to decide between these two. Not a fan of Yakupov's attitude, needs to learn to work hard and play d, but his talent is definitely exceptional. Hertl is better right now, and hasn't been causing the same locker room drama, but I feel his upside might not be quite as high.

4/5/6/7) Murray/Rielly/Lindholm/Trouba
I really can't really distinguish between these 4, all awesome in their own way. I all lots of drafts any one of these guys would be the top dman in the draft, but this draft was crazy stacked on d. You could probably merge these 4 and Yakupov/Hertl, tough to decide between any of these 6.

8) Teravainen
I like his skill set a lot, when he makes it to the NHL I think people are going to be very impressed.

9) Forsberg
Love his talent, big frame too.

10) Maata
Lot's of options here, but I went with Maata, smart dman who is already looking quite good in the NHL.


Last edited by ponder: 12-27-2013 at 10:47 PM.
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Old
12-27-2013, 10:43 PM
  #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike203 View Post
Girgensons had another great game tonight, just ask Toronto. He might not be #4 right now but he's not far from it (6-8 imo) and he's closing in on top 5.
Indeed, he did play well tonight. The thing is, it seems like everyone from the 2012 draft is playing well, it's hard to figure out who to drop other than the usuals like Dumba and Pouliot.

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