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Defensive Orientated System with a Offensive Orientated Roster

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Old
01-15-2007, 03:50 PM
  #1
Towelie*
 
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Defensive Orientated System with a Offensive Orientated Roster

Thats what I think the biggest problem is in Edmonton. Sorry if this has already being brought up.

To me, the Oilers strengths as per their roster are their forwards - but yet Mac T is playing a style of hockey that relies more on defense - the Edmontons Oilers weakness.

I am not knocking the style of play - clearly it works (Playoffs). I just don't think the Oilers have the roster for it.

Are Mac T and Lowe on the same page?

Discuss

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01-15-2007, 04:19 PM
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I think MacT is a great coach, but this worried me in the offseason when we got Lupul and Sykora. I was worried that he wouldn't change his gameplan.. He can't honestly think Sykora and Lupul are as effective as Peca and Dvo playing his system. We need to be making plays on the rush instread of dumping the puck and chasiing, we spend so much time in our own zone that the chances we have a puck on the rush are minimal, we can't waste it dumping the puck in. Also MacT need's to stop being soo concervative in his own zone. Every teams knows to pinch on the boards and the clearning chance will be stopped. If Mac would let his players pass it in front of the net this would solve some problems. You can't always go up the boards, and if you don't trust your players to make a pass infront of the net they shouldn't be playing in the NHL.

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01-15-2007, 05:05 PM
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uh... I think we aren't scoring off the rush because our defence don't move the puck quick enough or well enough. I don't know what MacT can do about that or what system they could implement that would suddenly create good break outs. I have no problem with MacT playing a system that encourages Oilers hockey (aggressive forecheck, fearless shot-blocking, aggressive defence). Lupul and Sykora are shooters so they need centers that dish them the puck in good scoring areas. Hemsky provides that for Sykora but Lupul hasn't found someone to do that for him. Hemsky needs to create speed through the neutral zone to be at his most effective so he needs a decent breakout pass. That's not happening this year with the defence we have.

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01-15-2007, 06:04 PM
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I agree and this is something I often think about. It is clear this teams biggest strength should be scoring goals but he plays a system that focuses more on keeping them out.

MacT's biggest strength is probally turning youngsters into good defensive players. He has done this with guys like Cleary, and Hemsky. His weakness IMO is his lack of ability to put forth a good offensive strategy.

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01-15-2007, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Russian Rocket View Post
Thats what I think the biggest problem is in Edmonton. Sorry if this has already being brought up.

To me, the Oilers strengths as per their roster are their forwards - but yet Mac T is playing a style of hockey that relies more on defense - the Edmontons Oilers weakness.

I am not knocking the style of play - clearly it works (Playoffs). I just don't think the Oilers have the roster for it.

Are Mac T and Lowe on the same page?

Discuss
That's exactly what I was thinking after our last loss against Calgary. It's almost like we're in limbo, not really an offensive team, and not really a defensive team either. Either the players aren't buying into MacT's system, or the aren't the right players for MacT's system. I'd really like to see MacT tell the boys to let it fly, try and score as many goals as you can for one game. Don't worry about the defense, just let fly. Just for ***** and giggles play like Ron Low coached for one game and see how we do. You never know maybe we'd win 8-5.

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01-15-2007, 08:39 PM
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Arrrgghh!!!!!!!!!! When will people learn that "orientated" is not a word??

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01-15-2007, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Truth Movement View Post
Arrrgghh!!!!!!!!!! When will people learn that "orientated" is not a word??
No, it is a word, much to my chagrination. I understand it is used a lot by Brits. Irregardless, you can find it in many respectable English language dictionaries.

Oh, regarding "irregardles", Merriam Webster has this to say:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merriam Webster Online Dictionary
The most frequently repeated remark about it is that "there is no such word." There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance.
You don't like it. I don't like it. But despite the good yet misguided intentions of Protectors of Pure Languages everywhere, words become words because people use them. It's just a fact. Its still always wrong, though, to use apostrophe's for plural's.

Damn, is this now the extent to which I can contribute to discussing Hockey's Future?

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01-15-2007, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Truth Movement View Post
Arrrgghh!!!!!!!!!! When will people learn that "orientated" is not a word??
I bet you love seeing "irregardless" in use...

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01-16-2007, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by oilswell View Post
words become words because people use them. It's just a fact. Its still always wrong, though, to use apostrophe's for plural's.
That's kind of a funny contradiction.


Last edited by JonQuixote: 01-16-2007 at 08:36 AM.
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01-16-2007, 01:30 AM
  #10
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I question MacT's ability to build young offensive players games. The break out is not designed for explosive offense and it appears there is no game plan for the offensive zone, have you seen us cycle the puck once this season. I still think Mact is a great coach but he may not be suited for this lineup furthermore look for him to be unemployed if the team misses the playoffs.

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01-16-2007, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilswell View Post
No, it is a word, much to my chagrination. I understand it is used a lot by Brits. Irregardless, you can find it in many respectable English language dictionaries.

Oh, regarding "irregardles", Merriam Webster has this to say:


You don't like it. I don't like it. But despite the good yet misguided intentions of Protectors of Pure Languages everywhere, words become words because people use them. It's just a fact. Its still always wrong, though, to use apostrophe's for plural's.

Damn, is this now the extent to which I can contribute to discussing Hockey's Future?
I love how you disappear and then reappear suddenly with a riveting post on proper grammar.

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01-16-2007, 01:36 AM
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Well, we're stuck in a quandry.

On the offensive side, we're not fast or talented enough to be Buffalo, Nashville or Montreal. Yet we're not physical enough to be San Jose either.

On the defensive side, we're not mobile enough to be Carolina or Detroit. Yet we're not as tactically sound as New Jersey or Calgary.

It can be a lonely place in the standings when you're in between two philosophies but don't have enough of a foothold in either.

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01-16-2007, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Cloned View Post
Well, we're stuck in a quandry.

On the offensive side, we're not fast or talented enough to be Buffalo, Nashville or Montreal. Yet we're not physical enough to be San Jose either.

On the defensive side, we're not mobile enough to be Carolina or Detroit. Yet we're not as tactically sound as New Jersey or Calgary.

It can be a lonely place in the standings when you're in between two philosophies but don't have enough of a foothold in either.
That is the sad thing to digest. No matter what level of players coming into the rosters (except for CP type), the Oilers will stay with mediorcity under MacT coaching. MacTavish is a great coach, but there are many other coaches, who are better than him with the fewer talented players. As we have seen in 7 years since he took over from Lowe: nothing changes (there are endless excuses, but at the end, we are stuck with the 8th, 9th, or even worse.
Mr. MacTavish should send CP thank you card every month for last year performance, which made a highlight for his coaching carreer.


Last edited by xauxi: 01-16-2007 at 10:24 AM.
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Old
01-16-2007, 09:17 AM
  #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth Movement View Post
Arrrgghh!!!!!!!!!! When will people learn that "orientated" is not a word??
sorry

it is now considered a word for about 20 years now

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01-16-2007, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by OilRick View Post
That's exactly what I was thinking after our last loss against Calgary. It's almost like we're in limbo, not really an offensive team, and not really a defensive team either. Either the players aren't buying into MacT's system, or the aren't the right players for MacT's system. I'd really like to see MacT tell the boys to let it fly, try and score as many goals as you can for one game. Don't worry about the defense, just let fly. Just for ***** and giggles play like Ron Low coached for one game and see how we do. You never know maybe we'd win 8-5.
i don't think ron low hockey would suit this team either...ronny low stressed hitting more than anything and this team just doesn't have the resources for that either...i don't know what goes on behind closed doors and if our offensive players are really that restricted in what they can do...to me hemmer is out there trying whatever he can and is double-shifted a lot...so i don't really think mac-t is anti-creativity...the problem is...we don't have that many creative players on the team...

the fact that mac-t is playing the czech-mates together is surprising for me and i didn't expect it from a "defensive coach" as he's labelled...he's not stupid...he knows he has guys who can put the puck in the net...its just that we don't have many guys who can get the puck to those guys who can put the puck in the net...

our D exacerbates the problem because even they can't get the puck to these guys...hence what we see is a gongshow when we rush out of our zone...unless its hemmer who's carrying the puck...

because we can't score (flames have more goals than us), i think mac-t stresses D more right now...

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01-16-2007, 11:44 AM
  #16
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The problem is not the type of players, but a lack of NHL-ready defensemen.

On any given night, we have two rookies, and MAB playing defense.

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01-16-2007, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by oilerfanatic View Post
because we can't score (flames have more goals than us
...oh no...

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01-16-2007, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by oilerfanatic View Post
i don't think ron low hockey would suit this team either...ronny low stressed hitting more than anything and this team just doesn't have the resources for that either...i don't know what goes on behind closed doors and if our offensive players are really that restricted in what they can do...to me hemmer is out there trying whatever he can and is double-shifted a lot...so i don't really think mac-t is anti-creativity...the problem is...we don't have that many creative players on the team...

the fact that mac-t is playing the czech-mates together is surprising for me and i didn't expect it from a "defensive coach" as he's labelled...he's not stupid...he knows he has guys who can put the puck in the net...its just that we don't have many guys who can get the puck to those guys who can put the puck in the net...

our D exacerbates the problem because even they can't get the puck to these guys...hence what we see is a gongshow when we rush out of our zone...unless its hemmer who's carrying the puck...

because we can't score (flames have more goals than us), i think mac-t stresses D more right now...
What about a Jaques Lemaire type system then? I hate the trap, but I think we have the guns for a pretty leathal counter attack system. It might be our only option for this season. Besides, forcing neutral zone turnovers should really help our pathetic break-out problems and take much of the constant defenive zone pressure off our our D.

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01-16-2007, 12:47 PM
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What about a Jaques Lemaire type system then? I hate the trap, but I think we have the guns for a pretty leathal counter attack system. It might be our only option for this season. Besides, forcing neutral zone turnovers should really help our pathetic break-out problems and take much of the constant defenive zone pressure off our our D.
i am pro-trap if it means winning...in the pre-cba days i was a proponent of oilers playing the trap because we just didn't have enough talent to play a run 'n gun system...but fans and media always claimed that the trap "is not oiler hockey"..."not exciting enough"...apparently playing an offensive system without talented players is what we were content with...another excuse was that "we were too fast for the trap"...i can understand a team being too slow for run n gun...but how the hell can a team be too fast for the trap?...detroit has always had speedy teams, and they always employed the left wing lock under scotty bow...

now, i believe we can play that run 'n gun system if we just acquire a couple of pieces to the puzzle...but if the trap is the strategy that would lead us to win...then i'm all for it...

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01-16-2007, 01:14 PM
  #20
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My thoughts exactly. Oiler hockey is about speed, yet the Oilers were accused of running a trap system a few times last year and it still looked like Oiler hockey to me.

It might be a more appropriate solution than trying to find the pieces we need to fix the team/style we have at the moment. It could also buy KLowe the time he needs to get the right deals. And if its successful and still fun to watch... who knows. Options are always a good thing.

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