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Practice Lines Monday, January 15th

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Old
01-16-2007, 03:51 PM
  #76
bathgate
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I've stayed off the boards for a while due to my disenchantment with the course the Rangers are following.Prucha can be as good as Gionta. Both are fearless in front of the net and have good hands. The difference is Prucha has no center. Playing him on the fourth line is a travesty. Immonen did not deserve a demotion. He should have played twenty games to give him a real chance. IMO, he did not look lost or out of place. Krog does nothing for me. Immo would do as well if not better. Orr is a waste. Scratching Ward for him is wrong. Finally, I'm not as down on Hall as others. He is a power play specialist who doesn't get to play. Same for Prucha. Why not give them more time. If we make make the playoffs,not a given, we need two productive scoring lines and two lines for the power play. Regrettably, I believe the team is regressing towards the pre-purge era.Please show me the rebuild that I was promised. We do not hear much about it these days

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01-16-2007, 03:54 PM
  #77
Evgeny Oliker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bathgate View Post
I've stayed off the boards for a while due to my disenchantment with the course the Rangers are following.Prucha can be as good as Gionta. Both are fearless in front of the net and have good hands. The difference is Prucha has no center. Playing him on the fourth line is a travesty. Immonen did not deserve a demotion. He should have played twenty games to give him a real chance. IMO, he did not look lost or out of place. Krog does nothing for me. Immo would do as well if not better. Orr is a waste. Scratching Ward for him is wrong. Finally, I'm not as down on Hall as others. He is a power play specialist who doesn't get to play. Same for Prucha. Why not give them more time. If we make make the playoffs,not a given, we need two productive scoring lines and two lines for the power play. Regrettably, I believe the team is regressing towards the pre-purge era.Please show me the rebuild that I was promised. We do not hear much about it these days
I totally agree with EVERYTHING you said:

Immonen - SHOULD be in the lineup as a center, whether 2nd or 3rd line center, doesnt matter, but he should be playing. He is WAY better than Orr, Hall, etc.

Prucha - SHOULD get much more ice time and not on the freaking 3rd or 4th line.

As bathgate said above, even if we do make the playoffs with this roster...we need more than 1 scoring line so we need to let the kids play now and play more!

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Old
01-16-2007, 03:57 PM
  #78
Ola
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Originally Posted by True Blue View Post
The criticism stems from pretending that a 4th line player should be centering Shanny.
Through out the years there have been many 4th lineers on very successful 1st lines in this league. Brad May-Pat LaFontaine-AlMo.

So cut the crap of talking about it like its "unbeliveable". Detroit have had both Draper and Franzen on their first lines this season. One player gets a defensive role, he is not asked to play anthing else then what you call 4th line hockey on a 2nd line.

That worked pretty good for the Swedes in the Olympics. Like 4th line center Jörgen Jönsson with Forsberg during the majority of games, Jönsson taking care of the defensive side so Forsberg could concentrate on offense.

And we all know that Betts won't play there for long. Its a lineup designated for the NJD. To stop Elias and Co.

Quote:
And last year, he showed that he is more than simply a checking line player. He is a 2nd line sniper.

The way that he has been handled is not an example of not surviving in a perfect environment. It's an example of why this organization is amongst the worst in the league for 66 years running.
By simple math, that would make him both a checkingline player and a 2nd line sniper.

This season, he is finnishing have been decent, not terrible. His checkingline play haven't been good enough. When he haven't scored he haven't contributed.

This have been covered before TB. Prucha is not a finetuned elite sniper in this league. He just have never been and never will be a Ziggy Palffy type of player. He is not nearly as skilled as Ziggy were. There were a reason for why he were used like he were last season. We are seeing it now. You can complain all you want on everyone else on the team, and blame Prucha not scoring on them. Its Cullens fault. Why aren't Renney playing Immonen there, he would solve everything (he didn't, its a fact, he sucked on the 2nd line). Though Prucha like every young hockey player, in his case mid 20's but he is a late bloomer, needs time. There is always a time in a hockeyplayers career when he struggles. I would say the earlier the better. Prucha's flaws are becomming obvious. He needs to correct them. He also needs to go back to what made him successful last season, which were allot more then scoring goals.

You are right that he would have scored more if he had played instead of Shanahan on the PP. But he would still have been the exact same player. This struggle would have came 2-3 years from now when JJ were done or something.

If we would have rushed Prucha, its possible that we would have had Mariuz Czerkawski on our hands in 3 years. Now we are developing him. There are no shortcuts in hockey. There is a reason why Prucha haven't contributed with Cullen and Shanahan. Thats because he is flawed. Had he played with Crosby and Shanahan it just wouldn't have been obvious.

Prucha will start producing when he is put in a enviroment were he can succed again. Though inorder to be more valueble then just about any UFA you can pick up for 2m he must get more involved in the transition game. He must win more pucks on the forecheck, like he did last season. He must become more involved in the play in general. A problem for him is that in Europe he could go down deep into his own zone and help out, win the puck, and start a counter attack. Here in the NHL he is too weak and forwards takes advantages of him there. He must adopt to that and find new ways to contribute in thoose faces of the game.

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Old
01-16-2007, 04:22 PM
  #79
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I don't mind limiting Pruch'a minutes and easing him into the NHL as long as they plan on using him in the future. Gionta received similar minutes in his first 2 seasons (about 14:50 compared to Prucha's 13:50 last season). Of course the difference is you knew Gionta was part of their future. You can't say the same with Prucha because of this organization's history with youngsters.

I think he has the potential to be a top six winger. His shot is very tough on goalies, they seem to have a hard time with it. At worst he's a checking line player who works his butt off and is capable of chipping in a few goals. I hope we don't give him away.

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01-16-2007, 04:23 PM
  #80
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You meant "in those phases of the game". I agree. Also, I think everyone forgets about Ruccin's absence. Steve knew how to get Petr going. I think Prucha-Ruccin-Shanahan would have worked well.

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01-16-2007, 04:26 PM
  #81
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[QUOTE=Fletch;7687425]not sure why you'd say 'great, 10 points,' when it's a guy who's largely played the third and fourth lines, with a couple on the top line, and who gets around 12 minutes of ice time per game, some of the killing penalties. Isn't that about what you'd want from that kind of guy?

I dunno. Maybe there's no room for a Ward on this team, fine. I'll reiterate my problem with Renney: I just think things should make sense. Too much with him doesn't make sense, and I think the messages he sends aren't always crystal clear, and perhaps they should be.

You make good points. I guess what can be expected from him in that capacity you laid out. Renney does make u scratch your head with the his lines. I guess my issue/point is what has Ward done that make him unbenchable, his role can bascially be filled with several people on the current team and several young people in hartford. He is calling Renney out in the media how he hasnt made it clear to him what is happening. We've seen alot of this with certian NFL teams and its not productive. Coming from Jason Ward.....I just dont want to hear it

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Old
01-16-2007, 05:41 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Through out the years there have been many 4th lineers on very successful 1st lines in this league. Brad May-Pat LaFontaine-AlMo.

So cut the crap of talking about it like its "unbeliveable". Detroit have had both Draper and Franzen on their first lines this season. One player gets a defensive role, he is not asked to play anthing else then what you call 4th line hockey on a 2nd line.
It IS unbelievable, if that is the term that you want to use. There is a difference in a 4th line player playing on one of the top lines for a spell and actually being a top-6 forward. Brad May is the former. Draper does not permeate on the 1st line for an entire season. These are 3rd line players who may play for a spell with the big boys. Prucha is an actual 2nd line plalyer.
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That worked pretty good for the Swedes in the Olympics. Like 4th line center Jörgen Jönsson with Forsberg during the majority of games, Jönsson taking care of the defensive side so Forsberg could concentrate on offense.
Last I checked, the NHL was not the Olympics.
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And we all know that Betts won't play there for long. Its a lineup designated for the NJD. To stop Elias and Co.
No, he is there becuase Renney cannot get it into his head that he is a 4th line player. Playing him on the 2nd line with Shannahan is like Low plaing Leetch as wing to combat Bure. Both move were and are moronic. If that is what he is doing at all. I happen to think that there is no thougth of strategy involved with Renney. There never is. He is playing Betts on the 2nd line simply becuase he cannot get his hands around that there are other options besides him or Cullen for the 2nd line.
Quote:
By simple math, that would make him both a checkingline player and a 2nd line sniper.
Unfortunately, simple math does not work for you. Either you are a 2nd line player (Prucha) or a 3rd line player (Cullen) or a 4th line player (Betts).
Quote:
This season, he is finnishing have been decent, not terrible. His checkingline play haven't been good enough. When he haven't scored he haven't contributed.
And?
Quote:
This have been covered before TB. Prucha is not a finetuned elite sniper in this league. He just have never been and never will be a Ziggy Palffy type of player. He is not nearly as skilled as Ziggy were.
No one is confusing him with being "elite" or a top line player. No one is even alluding to it. Why argue something that is not being argued?
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There were a reason for why he were used like he were last season. We are seeing it now.
Huh? Him getting the shaft for a one-armed, utterly ineffective Rucinsky is supposed to shed light on why Renney has no use for the best Ranger rookie prospect since the Amonte/Weight/Kovalev days?
Quote:
Prucha's flaws are becomming obvious. He needs to correct them. He also needs to go back to what made him successful last season, which were allot more then scoring goals.
If you want him to score more goals, then stop burying him on the 4th line and get him more PP time.
Quote:
If we would have rushed Prucha, its possible that we would have had Mariuz Czerkawski on our hands in 3 years. Now we are developing him. There are no shortcuts in hockey. There is a reason why Prucha haven't contributed with Cullen and Shanahan. Thats because he is flawed. Had he played with Crosby and Shanahan it just wouldn't have been obvious.
Ahhh...so that is what this.....DEVELOPMENT. I see. Funny, I just thought of it as screwing up a kid's development. Prucha has not contributed with Cullen? How about has Cullen contributed with Prucha? The funny thing is that Prucha does not have all that many fewer goals at ES than Shanny does, relatively speaking when considering the linemates and ice time differences.
Quote:
Prucha will start producing when he is put in a enviroment were he can succed again.
I am sure that centering Hollweg & Orr nurtures just such an environment.

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Old
01-16-2007, 06:08 PM
  #83
MisterUnspoken
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One thing that Ola alluded to in his posts was that the NYR's were using these lines to stop the Devils.... I find this to be one of the single most idiotic things you can do in hockey.

Why?

Because you need to focus on what YOUR team does well. Not what the other team does.

If you don't focus on getting your team prepared to play their game -- the other team can play theirs without question. Making a separate game plan based on the opponent is a waste of time. The Rangers should simply focus on THEMSELVES and NOT the OPPONENT.

I pray that Tom does not game plan for each game on a case by case basis and just does what he knows is best for the team, but the more I think about it I think he is doing exactly what Ola alluded to.

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Old
01-16-2007, 06:20 PM
  #84
Finest
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Yeah he could switch them back.
But wouldnt you want your true lines to practice together, instead of always mixing it up? I would.
Oh I agree with that 100%, I guess we will see what happens with the lines tonight

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Old
01-16-2007, 06:32 PM
  #85
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Hate to say it but I think Renney is beginning to grasp at straws. Is this a sign that he is not connecting to his players very well? Not having a true 2nd line center has hurt this team as much as being thin on D. It's a tough spot to be in as a coach, but that's your lot in that job. It's the coach's responsibility to put the players in a spot where they can be successful. Certainly some have not responded well, but Renney is also guilty of giving more chances than he should have. He admits to that. When a team is confused they become dispirited and tentative. The Rangers look a little confused right now.

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Old
01-16-2007, 06:38 PM
  #86
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I'm sure Shanny would have signed if he knew he'd have Blair Betts centering his line. What a joke.

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