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Old
01-16-2007, 04:29 AM
  #26
Zach and Slater
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Because the prospect they'll want would have to be damn good, and the pick would have to be damn good. They won't say "oh, there they gave us a backup, all we need now is Syvret and a 3rd and we're set." There is no way that Toskala gets moved unless it's for a top end d-man. I think there is a possiblity that they could swing a deal with Florida, sending Toskala and SOMETHING(a high pick, or maybe Wishart) to the Cats for Van Ryn and Belfour. Yes it would be amazing to get another goaltender in here to help Rollie, but it won't be Toskala. Plus, they have Nolan Schaeffer who at least at last check they were very high on. Besides all this, I was speaking in terms of dealing for Nabokov if we were to deal Rollie. And would he waive his NTC to come here to be a clear cut number 1? I'm pretty sure he would, every goaltender wants to be a number 1.

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01-16-2007, 01:54 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Ari Gold View Post
Good one, and Crosby, Malkin and MAF aren't going to make the Pens a powerhouse in the least....ARE YOU FREAKIN KIDDING AGAIN HALUSCHAK?????????????????? This might be in fact the worst argument I've ever heard!!! Rebuild doesn't mean rebuild for the next 5-10 years like it used to homey! Rebuild means shed your roster of bad contracts so you can get the things you need in the offseason ie d-men. What it means is let's get a jump on the competition and get started building next year's team, keeping the good core around, re-signing Smyth and trimming the fat and getting maximum value while doing it! Let me put it this way, and these are just being used as examples:
Horcoff and Tjarnqvist to Atlanta for Coburn
Smith to NYR for Staal
Pisani to Buffalo for MacArthur and a 3rd round pick
Then in the offseason....
Sign Timmonen
Trade up in the draft for a top 3 pick
Trade for Redden
Those moves are going to have us in the gutter like Pittsburgh and Washington have been for the last 4 years??? Oh yeah, it also would give our young players a lot more experience heading into next season, oh yeah, we would also look like CUP CONTENDERS!!!
And these fantasy trades are one of the reasons why I don't have a great desire to visit these boards that much. Atlanta trades their #1 dman of the future for Horcoff and an impending UFA? Would you? Then why would Atlanta? Similarly, NYR trades Staal , their #1 dman of the future for Smith? Why would they do that? Does NYR seriously think that Jason Smith is the missing piece to their team and bring them the Cup? Trade for Redden? And then who is Ottawa's #1 dman then? Meszaros? Phillips?

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01-16-2007, 02:01 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by JonQuixote View Post
Pisani for Clarke MacArthur? Hey, let's trade an NHL two-way grinder with a whopper of a contract to cap struggling buffalo for a nearly NHL ready two-way grinder. We lose a little bit of talent in the immediate and dump a huge contract. Wow. Why won't Buffalo jump at this deal? Maybe if we drop our request for a third.
Actually I was thinking about it the other way. Why would the Oilers trade one of their best forwards for a guy that won't contribute a similar level of play for 2-3 years if he does at all? The chances of MacArthur reaching Pisani's level of play is pretty slim.

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01-16-2007, 02:34 PM
  #29
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We already did that.....

ahh Pronger for Lupal and Smid.

Lets do it some more?

Nah, I'd rather take a pointy stick in the eye.

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01-16-2007, 02:38 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
And these fantasy trades are one of the reasons why I don't have a great desire to visit these boards that much. Atlanta trades their #1 dman of the future for Horcoff and an impending UFA? Would you?
I do that in a heartbeat if I was Atlanta. That deal would win them a minimum of two rounds this year and give them a quality centre for the next couple of years. I think it makes perfect sense for Atlanta, but not much sense for Edmonton.

Anybody proposing a trade for a young dman that's less NHL ready than the current group of young dmen the Oilers have is absolutely nutters. The Oilers have Greene, Smid, Gilbert, Roy, Syvret, Chorney and Petry in the system. Why the heck do they need to deal for a young dman who fits somewhere in the Greene-Petry development spectrum at this point? The only answer I can think of is masochism.

It seems to me that the Oilers should be dealing from a position of strength here and that strength is prospects IMHO.

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01-16-2007, 02:46 PM
  #31
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I disagree with the comment about MacArthur's offensive ceiling. I think he could be a 20 goal guy in this league. Maybe I'm biased because I grew up with him and know him very well, but I've always been impressed with the way he can elevate his game. Take the WJC's for example. He had an excellent tournament and proved many of his doubters wrong. I think he'll do it again at the NHL level. I know his parents Deb and Dean would be happy to see him play closer to home.

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01-16-2007, 03:25 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Lok View Post
And these fantasy trades are one of the reasons why I don't have a great desire to visit these boards that much. Atlanta trades their #1 dman of the future for Horcoff and an impending UFA? Would you? Then why would Atlanta? Similarly, NYR trades Staal , their #1 dman of the future for Smith? Why would they do that? Does NYR seriously think that Jason Smith is the missing piece to their team and bring them the Cup? Trade for Redden? And then who is Ottawa's #1 dman then? Meszaros? Phillips?
And Master Lok, once again you out do yourself! The part of that you quoted, maybe you should have read! You know, that part where I stat that these are just examples in other words I'm not proposing these deals, but this is the type of things you can expect to happen. And yes, Redden is a likely candidate to be dealt after this season. Who is there #1? Phillips or Priessing actually, but yeah they got Meszaros there too. They'll also be looking to re-sign Heatley to a long term extension after this season, they'll need room to re-sign Phillips after this season, and they'll probably want some cap space. Wade is a great d-man, who they would ask a lot in return, but he takes 6.5 mil in cap space and he's an impending UFA after this season. It's not a LOCK that they'll deal him, but he's the guy they're going to be inclined to deal after this season. And with Priessing proving he can fill his role this year, it's more then likely he'll be the guy.

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01-16-2007, 03:36 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by RiversQ View Post
I do that in a heartbeat if I was Atlanta. That deal would win them a minimum of two rounds this year and give them a quality centre for the next couple of years. I think it makes perfect sense for Atlanta, but not much sense for Edmonton.

Anybody proposing a trade for a young dman that's less NHL ready than the current group of young dmen the Oilers have is absolutely nutters. The Oilers have Greene, Smid, Gilbert, Roy, Syvret, Chorney and Petry in the system. Why the heck do they need to deal for a young dman who fits somewhere in the Greene-Petry development spectrum at this point? The only answer I can think of is masochism.

It seems to me that the Oilers should be dealing from a position of strength here and that strength is prospects IMHO.
I'm flattered you think my proposal works for Atlanta, but man alive why can't you guys remember what I'm proposing here! If we were sellers, we could get the max for guys that either A)are going to be UFA's, or B)are taking up more cap space then we would like them to. This year as there are hardly any sellers, so we would get a ton for our guys that we sell. I suggest if we did scrap the year, the guys we should be dealing are Horcoff, Pisani, Smith, Sykora, Tjarnqvist, Markkanen, and maybe get something for Nedved too. The point is, you're not dealing for guys that help you TODAY, you're dealing for things that will help you NEXT YEAR. We then go into the offseason with TONS of cap space, and more picks and prospects then anyone else in the league, some of which we can deal for guys in the offseason, some of which we could use to move up to a top 3 spot in the draft, and some of which we could hold onto. Add to this the fact that it is a deep free agent pool, espically on the blueline.

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01-16-2007, 03:40 PM
  #34
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If I want to win in the next 3 years...

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Originally Posted by Ari Gold View Post
I'm flattered you think my proposal works for Atlanta, but man alive why can't you guys remember what I'm proposing here! If we were sellers, we could get the max for guys that either A)are going to be UFA's, or B)are taking up more cap space then we would like them to. This year as there are hardly any sellers, so we would get a ton for our guys that we sell. I suggest if we did scrap the year, the guys we should be dealing are Horcoff, Pisani, Smith, Sykora, Tjarnqvist, Markkanen, and maybe get something for Nedved too. The point is, you're not dealing for guys that help you TODAY, you're dealing for things that will help you NEXT YEAR. We then go into the offseason with TONS of cap space, and more picks and prospects then anyone else in the league, some of which we can deal for guys in the offseason, some of which we could use to move up to a top 3 spot in the draft, and some of which we could hold onto. Add to this the fact that it is a deep free agent pool, espically on the blueline.
I wouldnt trade Pisani or Horcoff.

True, their contracts might be abit step in the regular season in a slump. But so what.

I think most people are contending this, so arnt too interested in your rebuilding idea.

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01-16-2007, 03:49 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Ari Gold View Post
The point is, you're not dealing for guys that help you TODAY, you're dealing for things that will help you NEXT YEAR.
My point is that Pisani and Horcoff will help the team NEXT YEAR far more than a bunch of green rookies will.

For example, I promise you that Pisani is twice the player that MacArthur is next year - that's just the way it is.

Rebuilding is not done with next year in mind, it's done with 2-3 years in the future mind. Most of your proposals involve turfing next year as well. If you're truly interested in next year, then you need to adjust your focus a fair bit.

Dealing pending UFAs makes tonnes of sense. Dealing players that will be core contributors and help you win for the next two seasons makes no sense to me given the position the Oilers are in and their market.

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01-16-2007, 04:09 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by RiversQ View Post
My point is that Pisani and Horcoff will help the team NEXT YEAR far more than a bunch of green rookies will.

For example, I promise you that Pisani is twice the player that MacArthur is next year - that's just the way it is.

Rebuilding is not done with next year in mind, it's done with 2-3 years in the future mind. Most of your proposals involve turfing next year as well. If you're truly interested in next year, then you need to adjust your focus a fair bit.

Dealing pending UFAs makes tonnes of sense. Dealing players that will be core contributors and help you win for the next two seasons makes no sense to me given the position the Oilers are in and their market.
Pisani will be better then MacArthur next year....no freakin way! YES I know that, but it gives us a lot more CAP SPACE AND A REALLY GOOD-GREAT PROSPECT AS WELL. When the dust settles, you wouldn't look at these deals as Horcoff for Coburn(again people, it's an example, read this please!), going into next year you look at it as Horcoff for Coburn and Timmonen or something along those lines. We have a ton of Horcoff's and Pisani's, we don't need guys like this. We need d-men, and if we shed ourselves of there contracts we can go overpay for a free agent d-man that we desperatly need in the offseason. And yes it SUCKS that we'll have to overpay, but everyone had to overpay for there d-men last offseason, and at least some of these guys this offseason fit our needs perfectly and are not as slow footed and bad defensivly(ie McCabe, Kubina, Gill, Ward, etc). Add to this, if we had enough cap space, we could bring in a better, younger version of Pisani as Hartnell is also a free agent, the youngest Group III in NHL history I believe. He would cost a lot of money, and I know having talked to people that know him Edmonton wouldn't be his first choice because he would be hounded for tickets and merchandise non stop(from Lloyd for those who didn't know), but again, if we made the right offer I'm pretty sure the positives would outweigh the negatives.

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01-16-2007, 05:28 PM
  #37
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Id say

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Originally Posted by Ari Gold View Post
Pisani will be better then MacArthur next year....no freakin way! YES I know that, but it gives us a lot more CAP SPACE AND A REALLY GOOD-GREAT PROSPECT AS WELL. When the dust settles, you wouldn't look at these deals as Horcoff for Coburn(again people, it's an example, read this please!), going into next year you look at it as Horcoff for Coburn and Timmonen or something along those lines. We have a ton of Horcoff's and Pisani's, we don't need guys like this. We need d-men, and if we shed ourselves of there contracts we can go overpay for a free agent d-man that we desperatly need in the offseason. And yes it SUCKS that we'll have to overpay, but everyone had to overpay for there d-men last offseason, and at least some of these guys this offseason fit our needs perfectly and are not as slow footed and bad defensivly(ie McCabe, Kubina, Gill, Ward, etc). Add to this, if we had enough cap space, we could bring in a better, younger version of Pisani as Hartnell is also a free agent, the youngest Group III in NHL history I believe. He would cost a lot of money, and I know having talked to people that know him Edmonton wouldn't be his first choice because he would be hounded for tickets and merchandise non stop(from Lloyd for those who didn't know), but again, if we made the right offer I'm pretty sure the positives would outweigh the negatives.
Youre in for a fair bit of Crow when Pisani and Horcoff start to carry this team.

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01-16-2007, 05:48 PM
  #38
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I've been a big Horcoff detractor, but if he ever starts to carry this team, I'll be more than happy to eat crow. Hold the ketchup

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01-16-2007, 06:26 PM
  #39
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Youre in for a fair bit of Crow when Pisani and Horcoff start to carry this team.
Big time, and I just know that the day is comming oh so soon!

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01-16-2007, 06:39 PM
  #40
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Why are most of you(not you Chauncy!)so affraid of taking a step back this season to take so many steps forward for years to come??? The names like Cherepanov, Coburn, MacArthur, Redden, Hartnell, Timmonen sound pretty good to me, and that wouldn't be all, and we would have a lot more picks added to these names as well. Don't get me wrong I like these players that I'm willing to trade(Pisani, Smith, Sykora, and not so much Horcoff) and I want them on my team, but people it's a CAP SYSTEM. You have to identify your needs, and subtract from area's where you are stacked. If we shed these guys cap numbers, they give us something like 11 or 12 million in cap space alone. And we aren't close to what next year's cap number is supposed to be. Not that we would want to go to 45 or 46 million, but if we could go to 41 or 42 that would be awesome. We would have a much much much better team next year and for years to come because of it. Instead you all seem to think that POSSIBLY SQUEEKING into the playoffs again this year, more then likely getting bounced in the first round(and again, I really hope not, but let's be real!), and not having much cap space for next year, with probably a weaker farm system then we have this year is the way to go. It is the perfect time to do something like this. If Lowe can bring in Brewer and say a Van Ryn, and we hold on to the pieces that we all deem untouchables(and we all know who they are) then I'm all for it. Unfortunatly I don't think it's going to happen. And if we can't, I believe that it's the smartest hockey decision to sell off pieces that you normally couldn't move and get everything set for next season, it could put us in a posistion where we could be right up there with the Anaheim's and Buffalo's of the world heading into next year.

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