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Old
01-17-2007, 12:00 PM
  #26
Inferno
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abev View Post
Jagr's play shouldn't be generalized based on one game. He doesn't do every night what he did vs the Devils last night.

He has been having some trouble lately and I am not sure what it is. I can only guess.

Jagr forechecks, and is still making goal scoring passes despite his unacceptable point total.
Thats the thing though, ive been noticing it since about game 3 this year, and its been getting worse, not better.

just keep an eye out for Jagr next game, and count how many times he actually crosses the blueline to play D in his own zone, and compare that to the amount of times the puck actually is in his own zone.

ill bet it something like a 1:5, ,perhaps a 1:7 ratio or something like that.

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01-17-2007, 12:15 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Bonzai12 View Post
Real Cherry Picker = Pavel Bure. He would be wondering around in the offensive zone waiting for the pass while it was deep in our own zone.

please don't talk about the rocket like that....

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01-17-2007, 12:15 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by inferno272 View Post
Thats the thing though, ive been noticing it since about game 3 this year, and its been getting worse, not better.

just keep an eye out for Jagr next game, and count how many times he actually crosses the blueline to play D in his own zone, and compare that to the amount of times the puck actually is in his own zone.

ill bet it something like a 1:5, ,perhaps a 1:7 ratio or something like that.
hmm... i think we just don't watch the same games...Jagr is usually covering oponent's defenceman on blue line on his right side...i can understand you just don't like someone, but i think it' ok to be fair sometimes

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01-17-2007, 12:41 PM
  #29
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Didn't Jagr state that if he wasn't playing in NY, he'd go to Europe?

The guy makes the NYR tick, and I'll have to forgive him for occasionally cherry picking last night, considering Renney played him for almost the entire 3rd period.

He's not going anywhere, nor should he.

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01-17-2007, 12:54 PM
  #30
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Also, I really couldn't care less if a guy is a "cherrypicker" if he produces like Jagr. The guy has damn near 1500 points for his career, about 500 of which have come on the PP. Yet in all that time he's out there evenstrength, he's still a +254. Even this season, he's recorded almost half his points on the PP but still maintains a +13. Not bad for a cherrypicker .

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01-17-2007, 01:28 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Also, I really couldn't care less if a guy is a "cherrypicker" if he produces like Jagr. The guy has damn near 1500 points for his career, about 500 of which have come on the PP. Yet in all that time he's out there evenstrength, he's still a +254. Even this season, he's recorded almost half his points on the PP but still maintains a +13. Not bad for a cherrypicker .
which further proves the importance of Martin Straka. My guess, if we didnt have a guy like straka, that number is more like -2 or -3. Straka evens out a lot of the odd man rushes with pure hustle.

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Old
01-17-2007, 01:30 PM
  #32
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The goal is the Cup, not a seventh place finish. Jagr will be too old if and when the team can compete. Trade him for two blue chip forward prospects and a number one. Accelerate the "rebuild.". Sather et al will never do it. It's time to truly build a foundation for success

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Old
01-17-2007, 01:44 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in the hall View Post


big deal? i think he made a valid thread.. wouldn't have shocked me if a ranger fan made this
A valid thread? All he said was that we should trade Jagr. Not what we should trade him for or anything else.

He took a shot at the team. If this thread was made on the Devils board about their team you'd see a billion people *****ing about it.

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Old
01-17-2007, 01:52 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devs44 View Post
If I was Sather I would trade Jagr for Naslund and Brendan Morrison.

What are your thoughts on this trade? Your team is one dimensional with Jagr.
I'd have no problem trading Jagr. But not for that package.

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01-17-2007, 01:57 PM
  #35
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How about Jagr for the Sedins and Bourdon?

Seriously, I would trade Jagr for a package of young NHL players or bluechip prospects. Trading Jagr for two players that are older, underachieving and very expensive is not a logical deal for the Rangers if they were going to go down that road and trade Jagr.

That being said Sather more than likely would never deal Jagr.

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Old
01-17-2007, 03:18 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by devs44 View Post
If I was Sather I would trade Jagr for Naslund and Brendan Morrison.

What are your thoughts on this trade? Your team is one dimensional with Jagr.
The Devils fans would love it. Jagr isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

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Old
01-17-2007, 03:33 PM
  #37
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I doubt he is going anywhere, but if he were to be traded, the Rangers had better get a few quality players in return. I dont think those who were proposed are worth the loss of Jagr IMO.

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Old
01-17-2007, 03:47 PM
  #38
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I'd trade him for Backstrom or Toews, and that's about it.

Neither of which is happening, of course.

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Old
01-17-2007, 03:57 PM
  #39
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While he has played lazy at times, I question at what % is he physically healthy. Tom triple shifting him in the thrd last night dosen't help him heal. Jagr for Marty, straight up.

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Old
01-17-2007, 04:03 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I'd trade Jagr, absolutely, but it'd be for a couple of blue chip prospects as a starting point. If we move him, it ought to be to rebuild.
No way in hell I would let that happen. This team's front office isnt intelligent enough to make a deal for prospects.

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01-17-2007, 04:07 PM
  #41
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Jagr has stated that he will retire after his current contract. Are the Rangers realistically going to win a cup this year or next? If not then it would at least be worth investigating what Jagr could fetch in return should he OK a deal to a serious cup contender.

Regarding cherry picking I agree with nyr2k2. Last season, despite scoring over 50 of his 123 points on the power play, he was a +34 (2nd best in the NHL). And while I'm not ready to hand him the Selke trophy... he does back-check on occasion. I've seen it last year and this year.

I can't believe that bad rap Jagr gets sometimes.

This guy at the tender age of 34 is the 12th leading scorer in NHL history. Should he change his mind and decide to play into his late 30's or even 40. It's quite likely that he will pass Mark Messier and land as the NHL's #2 all-time leading scorer. So let him cherry pick once in a while. He makes up for it when he does have the puck. He's either scoring or setting someone up. But how often do you see Jagr get pushed off the puck in traffic or in the corners, even after 15 years in this league - virtually never. He's a truly gifted player.

That said, the Rangers focus should be on winning cups for years to come... that means if they *could* trade Jagr (and Shanahan) at the deadline for an attractive offer... they should at least weigh the options.

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Old
01-17-2007, 04:24 PM
  #42
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Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but was it not a stipulation of the trade with Washington that if the Rangers were to deal Jagr, Washington would no longer be saddled with half of Jagr's salary, and therefore the team taking on Jagr would have to assume 100% of the remainder of his contract?

I thought I'd read that somewhere, and if it is indeed the case, then Jagr's contract is virtually untradeable in the salary cap world unless the Rangers take back some lousy contracts themselves. But depending on what youth and/or picks also comes back in a trade, it could be worth it.

Might all be in vain though, since Jagr said if he's not playing for the Rangers, he'd be in Europe...

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Old
01-17-2007, 04:55 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by JRGNYR View Post
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but was it not a stipulation of the trade with Washington that if the Rangers were to deal Jagr, Washington would no longer be saddled with half of Jagr's salary, and therefore the team taking on Jagr would have to assume 100% of the remainder of his contract?

I thought I'd read that somewhere, and if it is indeed the case, then Jagr's contract is virtually untradeable in the salary cap world unless the Rangers take back some lousy contracts themselves. But depending on what youth and/or picks also comes back in a trade, it could be worth it.

Might all be in vain though, since Jagr said if he's not playing for the Rangers, he'd be in Europe...
I remember reading something similar also, so I think you correct in saying that if Jagr gets traded Washington is off the hook for their half of the contract.

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Old
01-17-2007, 05:07 PM
  #44
CM Lundqvist
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Well, I don't really know if it's fair to call Jagr a cherrypicker. How many times have we seen the guy take the puck end to end, drive past a defender on the outside and net one? A lot of times. Also, I don't think he gets his 60A per year cherrypicking. Cherrypicking implies that a guy just sits and waits for the play to come to him so he can easily cash in; if that were the case with Jagr, then why aren't there 100 other players out there doing what he's doing? It's because he's an amazing talent, arguably the strongest player on the puck the game has ever seen. He may be getting a little lazier and more likely to float in his older years, but it's silly to say that he's a cherrypicker and always has been.
Because he has a few end to end rushes means he's not a cherry picker? He only does that stuff when he has the puck, when he doesn't, he's hanging at the opposing team's blueline waiting for a pass. That's all there is to it, I don't know how long you've been watching him for, but he's always been that way.

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Originally Posted by JohnGalt View Post
I was a big Jagr fan when he was with the Caps...I didn't want to see him traded but in hindsight he was a net negative for the team. He was entertaining as hell to watch but he just didn't have his heart in it. Maybe he's better in NYC.
I got bashed for saying that he had no heart in Washington... I'd love to know where the person that bashed me is now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bathgate View Post
The goal is the Cup, not a seventh place finish. Jagr will be too old if and when the team can compete. Trade him for two blue chip forward prospects and a number one. Accelerate the "rebuild.". Sather et al will never do it. It's time to truly build a foundation for success
Thank you.

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Old
01-17-2007, 05:15 PM
  #45
nyr2k2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GretzNYR99 View Post
Because he has a few end to end rushes means he's not a cherry picker? He only does that stuff when he has the puck, when he doesn't, he's hanging at the opposing team's blueline waiting for a pass. That's all there is to it, I don't know how long you've been watching him for, but he's always been that way.
I've been watching him for his entire career in the NHL. My second post clarifies my feelings on this, in that even if he does "cherrypick," he's INCREDIBLY good at it, making it worth it. Also, to say that "he only does that stuff when he has the puck," referring to his rushes and strong on-puck play, is silly. For as long as I've seen him, he tends to dominate possession when he's on ice. He always has the puck! So "only doing it when he has the puck" translates to a high frequency, since he's so often in possession of the puck.

I'm not arguing that Jagr hasn't been off of his game and less involved this season than in years past, it's just odd to me to see people characterize as a cherrypicker one of the greatest puck-possessors of all time (and a guy who has 841A- can you cherrypick assists too?). Also, as I said in another post, who ****ing cares, he's an offensive threat the likes of which the game has rarely seen, and up until this season, a truly FANTASTIC offensive force.

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Old
01-17-2007, 09:28 PM
  #46
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jagr at 36 will still have great value.....and someone looking for that final piece will still take him as a rental and try to win the cup with his contract ending.....thats when i see us trying to get youth for him

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Old
01-17-2007, 09:52 PM
  #47
polako
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For any economists out there, please compare the amount of money that the team pays to Jagr vs his output. Then, throw the salary vs production statistics of Nylander and Straka into the mix and try to see if any other team gets as much "bang for the buck" from their top players.

JJ, and to a lesser extent Straka and Nylander, almost singlehandedly (obviously Henrik is also a factor) makes this team playoffs-competitive, sells merchandise , and brings an a**load of revenue to this team.

Yes, I could understand the argument that trading a career twilighting Jagr to a Cup contender could fetch a good package in return for a rebuilding team (maybe a Thornton-like return), but the NYR is a business, not an institution. He's just too good an investment at this point in time. He's not going anywhere, nor should he.

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Old
01-17-2007, 10:24 PM
  #48
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I'm a true Jagr fan, but I think some of you seriously overestimate his trade value at this point in his career.

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Old
01-17-2007, 10:34 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cartman27 View Post
Your team should trade Martin Broduer.
damn you got to it first...good call

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Old
01-17-2007, 11:32 PM
  #50
Esa 10
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There is absolutely no way Dolan would allow trading Jagr at this point. I'm sure Satherloney have carte blanche in regard to almost all hockey matters, however there's no way Dolan would allow trading a guy who brings in casual fans and advertising dollars. Especially at his contract and with no replacement of similar stature lined up. While it might make excellent sense from a long-term hockey perspective, from MSG's business viewpoint it surely is a non-starter.

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