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GDT: 1/16 - New York Rangers @ New Jersey Devils - 7:30PM

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Old
01-17-2007, 01:26 PM
  #351
bathgate
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Too much sour grapes. The devs buy into the system and play a team game. Our team is always on a magical mystery tour. I agree with Shadow that it is getting harder by the moment. Please no more lip service to the rebuild. Immonen is better than Krog. Pock, with some patience has shown potential. A thirty goal scorer assigned to play with a club hockey player and a center with no offensive potential. I'm disgusted! This team may eke into the playoffs. Big deal. Trade your veterans and really build a nucleus. I hate the Devs but respect their management.

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01-17-2007, 01:31 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by illmatic View Post
Renney's roster management is a joke, this game is only more proof...
...that Sather has given Renney 4 old offensive players and a goaltender and absolutely nothing else.

You can move garbage from line to line but they will still be garbage.

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Old
01-17-2007, 01:33 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Rootin'Tyutin View Post
I'm sure Devils fans are excited about winning, which fan wouldn't be, but it's this sort of boring play that's helping the league fold IMO.
But EVERY league has teams that play a defense/less entertaining style of game, many of which also have success. Yet the Devils seem to be the only one of these teams capable of bringing down their entire league.

Somehow, the NFL still manages to be successful in spite of teams like Baltimore and Chicago, that rely on defense to win games. You don't hear fans complaining about how boring those teams are or what they're doing to the sport. What about a baseball team that relies on a strong pitching staff and defense/small ball to win games (I guess the White Sox or Twins might be close...but I don't follow that league as much) - where are the complaints that they're destroying baseball?

Personally, I'd love to see the Devils open their game up more and take more chances on offense. But obviously, their management feels the current style of play gives them the best chance to win. I'm glad that teams like Buffalo and Carolina were so successful with a high powered offense game and I hope more teams mimic that. But that style is not what works best for the Devils.

No matter what types of rule changes the league continues to make to improve the offensive output of games, you're always going to have teams on both sides of the spectrum between being defensive-minded and offensive-minded. I don't know why people just can't accept the Devils as perhaps the most defensive oriented team in the league and just deal with it, instead of complaining about how they're ruining the league. Don't blame the Devils for doing something within the rules to win, blame the league for allowing this style of play to exist.

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Old
01-17-2007, 01:34 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
...that Sather has given Renney 4 old offensive players and a goaltender and absolutely nothing else.

You can move garbage from line to line but they will still be garbage.

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Old
01-17-2007, 02:22 PM
  #355
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everytime the rangers and devils play i just see a thread full of " refs this refs that " devils are the least penalized team in the NHL for a reason.

quit complaining and live with it.

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Old
01-17-2007, 02:39 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by DevFan-RU- View Post
What is even funnier is how this stuff comes out after the Devils beat some team by a one-goal lead over 60 minutes.

The NJ Devils outshot the NY Ranger. They outplayed them. They pressured them. They kept the puck in their own zone. They played good D.

To be honest, if the Rangers played like the Devils did night in and night out, you would be happily insane out of your mind, because you're team would be regarded as a pain in the *** to play by every team. And everyone would dread to play them.

But the situation is reversed. You support the Rangers, a team with a vastly different playing philosophy which I dont understand at all.
Every team that plays the Devils has posts in their GDT that the Devils are boring. And you log into EVERY GDT for EVERY TEAM and defend the Devils and their style.

So fans of other teams think the Devils are boring...so what? Why does that bother you? Why the need to defend them and their style? More often than not your team gets the two points, but the game never ends for you because you feel the need defend your team over and over and over again, on the message board of every team the Devils play.

Your team won, congratulations, nobody is challenging that. But I was bored watching the game, as apparently were many people who watched the game, and nothing you can say will change that. It was boring. The Devils are so good at their style of play, they make the Rangers and every team they play boring as well.

And reading GDT's from other teams, that seems to be the prevailing sentiment around the league. The Devils win and games involving the Devils are boring. If what you care about is the former, why waste brain cells on the latter? What do you care what Ranger fans (and fans of the other 28 teams) think of the Devils style of play?

Just about the only thing Ranger and Islander fans can agree on is that games involving their team and the Devils are boring. You never hear a bunch of people accusing Ranger/Islander games of being boring. That doesn't make the Devils any worse than the Rangers and Islanders, in fact it probably makes them better. Neither team has perfected a defensive system like the Devils have, and thus there is end-to-end action, defensive breakdowns and a lot of scoring chances.

Very good chance neither the Rangers or Islanders will win the Cup this year, but you can never accuse their games of being boring. Personally I don't think the Devils will win it either, system or no system, the Sabres seem just too good, but you never know. At this time last year who thought Carolina would win it?

Please enjoy the two points every night, your team earned them, but you're wasting your time if you're coming here to tell us the Devils aren't boring. A lot of people disagree. If your point is that winning hockey is exciting to you, regardless how the game was played on the ice, I understand. But as you can tell, fans from just about every team around the league wish the Devils would find a more exciting way to beat their team. Everyone can't be wrong.

Personally I wish the league would do more to change the flow of the game so teams like the Devils can't slow the game to a crawl, but the only real answer is playing 4 v 4 all the time, so the Devils can't clog up the neutral zone. I don't think that'll happen.

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Old
01-17-2007, 02:49 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
Every team that plays the Devils has posts in their GDT that the Devils are boring. And you log into EVERY GDT for EVERY TEAM and defend the Devils and their style.

So fans of other teams think the Devils are boring...so what? Why does that bother you? Why the need to defend them and their style? More often than not your team gets the two points, but the game never ends for you because you feel the need defend your team over and over and over again, on the message board of every team the Devils play.

Your team won, congratulations, nobody is challenging that. But I was bored watching the game, as apparently were many people who watched the game, and nothing you can say will change that. It was boring. The Devils are so good at their style of play, they make the Rangers and every team they play boring as well.

And reading GDT's from other teams, that seems to be the prevailing sentiment around the league. The Devils win and games involving the Devils are boring. If what you care about is the former, why waste brain cells on the latter? What do you care what Ranger fans (and fans of the other 28 teams) think of the Devils style of play?

Just about the only thing Ranger and Islander fans can agree on is that games involving their team and the Devils are boring. You never hear a bunch of people accusing Ranger/Islander games of being boring. That doesn't make the Devils any worse than the Rangers and Islanders, in fact it probably makes them better. Neither team has perfected a defensive system like the Devils have, and thus there is end-to-end action, defensive breakdowns and a lot of scoring chances.

Very good chance neither the Rangers or Islanders will win the Cup this year, but you can never accuse their games of being boring. Personally I don't think the Devils will win it either, system or no system, the Sabres seem just too good, but you never know. At this time last year who thought Carolina would win it?

Please enjoy the two points every night, your team earned them, but you're wasting your time if you're coming here to tell us the Devils aren't boring. A lot of people disagree. If your point is that winning hockey is exciting to you, regardless how the game was played on the ice, I understand. But as you can tell, fans from just about every team around the league wish the Devils would find a more exciting way to beat their team. Everyone can't be wrong.

Personally I wish the league would do more to change the flow of the game so teams like the Devils can't slow the game to a crawl, but the only real answer is playing 4 v 4 all the time, so the Devils can't clog up the neutral zone. I don't think that'll happen.
Yes. we really are one hell of a boring team. I mean why else would every fan tell us that after they lose to us? I'm sure If you won it would be a little less boring.

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Old
01-17-2007, 03:02 PM
  #358
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I don't understand this thread. The style of hockey the Devils play is boring to the majority of fans in the NHL. The Devils fans love it, because they are successful in their system and have grown accustomed to low scoring games. This isn't new stuff here, guys.

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Old
01-17-2007, 03:13 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by midg14 View Post
Yes. we really are one hell of a boring team. I mean why else would every fan tell us that after they lose to us? I'm sure If you won it would be a little less boring.
We didn't tell you that, we're saying that on a RANGER forum. What do you care if we think your team is boring?

And you have more than one hell of a boring team. You've proven over the last ten years that you have one of the best boring teams of all time.

I have tremendous respect what the Devils have accomplished. They've done it all within the rules of the NHL. But I think not only are they boring, what's worse is they're so good they force the teams they play into the same boring style.

You'll never convince me it's fun to watch. Successful, yes. Enjoyable, no.

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Old
01-17-2007, 03:41 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by dave4 View Post
We didn't tell you that, we're saying that on a RANGER forum. What do you care if we think your team is boring?
hey, you cant blame them. Its so lonely over there, they need to venture out to find someone to talk to.

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Old
01-17-2007, 03:43 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by chosen View Post
...that Sather has given Renney 4 old offensive players and a goaltender and absolutely nothing else.

You can move garbage from line to line but they will still be garbage.
no doubt...Sather is just as much to blame for the mess this year, giving Renney players that don't fit in this lineup or aren't being used in their ideal roles...I'd like to see them both gone...

that being said, there is NO excuse for those lines last night...anyone who has followed this team KNEW that the Devils would shut down our 1st line and the rest of those lines wouldn't be able to generate any real offense...but why didn't our coach know that? if we lose to a better team with our best lineup on the ice that's one thing, but a coach is supposed to put his team in the best possible position to win each night...Renney CONSTANTLY puts this team at a disadvantage with his roster management (and his strategical management too, but that's another topic)...last night's game was just the latest example

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Old
01-17-2007, 03:47 PM
  #362
The Amity Affliction
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Originally Posted by dkball7 View Post
I don't know any 4th liners who play big minutes against other teams top forwards and are part of a great PK unit.
The Adams brothers were that way. Jan Erixon was that way. Kris King was that way. I can think of LOADS of players who were like that, they're a dime a dozen, DK.

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Originally Posted by HBK27 View Post
Personally, I don't watch all the games in the NHL so I have no clue which teams get away with more non-calls than others. I watch all the Devils games and the occasional Rangers, Islanders or Versus game. I'm just trying to think realistically about this. All teams get away with non-calls to a certain extent. My guess though it that it all averages out over time, so it's pretty even for every team. I just don't see why all the refs in the league would go out of their way to unfairly not call penalties against the Devils that they would call for other teams in the league - makes no sense.
A reputation. Just like when Ty Cobb didn't swing at a ball that could have been a strike, they called it a ball. Why? Because he was one of THE BEST hitters ever, and that reputation preceded him wherever he went. The Devils are regarded as one of the most disciplined teams in the NHL, and because of that reputation, they'll get the benefit of the doubt whenever, wherever.

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Maybe the Devils do get less calls against them because they're known as a disciplined team and tend to be among the league leaders in fewest penatly minutes year in year out. If so, I doubt it's a conscious decision by the refs, who I imagine as professionals would try to call things the same for every team in the league. By the same token, you hear the example of Raider fans thinking their team gets unfairly penalized since they have a reputation for taking penalties.
Exactly, it's a reputation. The Rangers of the last two years aren't a team that has taken a lot of legitimate penalties. They've had the obvious phantom calls against them, but that's about it. They don't have the reputation of a team that can't stay out of the box, which is another reason why I don't get it.

Bottom Line: If you're going to put the whistles in the pocket, just don't call anything at all then. Don't help one team out, and not the other.

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If you hate Doc & Chico so much, why were you watching the game on FSNY instead of MSG? Are you just going out of the way to try to get yourself angry?
It was actually an accident, I thought they hijacked the telecast only to realize that I had FSNY on in the 2nd, so then I turned it back.

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IMO, Pandolfo should be nominated for a Selke (and maybe should've in years past). Defensively, I think he's right up there with Madden. There's a reason why these two have been paired together and matched against the opposing team's top line & on the top PK unit for so long. The RW on their line comes and goes, but the constant is that these two players are always out their against the opposing team's top scorer and the Devils go out of their way to match lines to make sure of it. Calling him a career 4th, especially when he often gets 1st line minutes, is just ridiculous. Any team in the league would love to have Pandolfo on their checking line, especially at his salary.
I completely disagree with that, Madden is a far better defensive forward than Pandolfo is, and Pandolfo can do what he does only because of Madden's smarts and abilities.

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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
NO... they ref to the Devils reputation. Its wrong.
Thank you.

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Originally Posted by TB Sheets View Post
I just can't agree that that game was boring. I was watching it thinking just how exciting it was. There were plenty of high quality scoring chances, especially in the first two periods. The Devils, IMO, had the lions share of really quality chances, which may be why you think it was boring from a Rangers POV. I'll admit that, as the 3rd period wound down, the Devils sat back more often - but that was because the Rangers tried to press more. In those situations they will clear the puck first and think fofense second.
Ranger/Devil games in the past were better than this one. I usually look forward to these games, but this one was boring. The one two weeks ago was great. You didn't know what was going to happen. There were actual scoring chances. A shot from the outside is not a "legitimate scoring chance." Just because Emrick has a bloodclot does not mean that it's a great scoring chance. The Devils didn't have a lot of quality chances. The game was evenly played for the most part, which is why I can't understand no penalties being called against the Devils, ESPECIALLY in the 3rd when the Rangers pressed the most.

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But honestly, if you think that game was boring, I have to think that you are buying into the anti-Devils press as much as you think the refs buy into the Devils reputation of not taking penalties.
No, you're wrong. The Devils style is BORING. Just as well as the Wild are BORING. It's not just the media, the FANS of other NHL teams wanted a more offensive game. They were tired of the clutching and grabbing and the game being slowed down because of it. The refs would turn a blind eye to teams like Jersey, and Dallas, and Minnesota who did all of that stuff and played trap hockey.

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Originally Posted by TB Sheets View Post
Hey, Brodeur got the shutout and the next-day praise, but I honestly felt that Lundquist played better. He made some amazing saves. Take away the truly amazing saves by both goaltenders and that's a Devils 4-1 or 5-1 victory. There were plenty of 2-on-1's, partial breakaways, shots from the slot and on the doorstep. I don't know what game you were watching.
I don't know what you considered quality chances, but I don't consider a bunch of point shots and shots from the outside "quality chances," and that's what we saw all night. Plenty of 2-on-1's? Not really. For Devils hockey, maybe, but for regular games, not even firewagon run-and-gun hockey... that's a joke.

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Frankly, if you find that disgusting, then I don't think I have anything to say to you anymore.
Well then, you don't have anything to say to a lot of people, because a lot of people find Devils Hockey "disgusting" and "boring."

It's not a knock at you, but it's just not exciting to watch to most people that are not Devils/Wild fans.

[QUOTE=DevFan-RU-;7698932]What is even funnier is how this stuff comes out after the Devils beat some team by a one-goal lead over 60 minutes.

Quote:
The NJ Devils outshot the NY Ranger. They outplayed them. They pressured them. They kept the puck in their own zone. They played good D.
It was a pretty evenly played game aside from the 2nd period, where the Devils dominated, and the 3rd period where the Rangers dominated, but couldn't beat Marty, a testament to the way he played. The 1st could have went either way.

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To be honest, if the Rangers played like the Devils did night in and night out, you would be happily insane out of your mind, because you're team would be regarded as a pain in the *** to play by every team. And everyone would dread to play them.

But the situation is reversed. You support the Rangers, a team with a vastly different playing philosophy which I dont understand at all.
Actually, no I wouldn't. Because I wouldn't be inclined to go spend the money I do on tickets for Rangers games for the Devils. Why, because although on-ice product is effective, it's not entertaining to me, by any stretch of the imagination. I don't care if they win, they're still boring. Maybe THAT'S why the Devils are piss-poor in attendance.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2007

Home: 26 23 311,813 13,557 71.2

Ranked 26th out of 30, the only 4 teams worse are Washington, Chicago, Islanders, and St. Louis. Mind you, Chicago and St. Louis are just terrible, and Washington is rebuilding as well. Averaging only 13,557 when they max. capacity is 19,000+? There's NO EXCUSE for that, especially when they're a perennial contender. The 71.2% selling to capacity is the defining stat, if you ask me. They're only selling to 71 percent of their max capacity? Something's wrong there.

Road: 11 23 393,777 17,120 93.5

Ranked 11th out of 30. Wow, what a difference. Probably because of the Divisional rivalries... Rangers, Islanders, Flyers. People will pay to go see those games because they expect something worthwhile like two weeks ago. Even if the Rangers would have lost that game, I would have been happy with the point, and the way the game was played. Not all low scoring games are boring. Selling to nearly 94 percent of max capacity on the road is a pretty good draw. Devils fans, I think you should be paying attention to these numbers.

Overall: 23 46 705,590 15,338 82.1

Ranked 23rd out of 30. Not good at all. Would be a lot better if people actually showed up to Continental, which is sad, because there are expansion teams out there who would die to have a winner, but their fans STILL show up. Look at Columbus. They average 16,000+ a game, 91% capacity, and THEY SUCK, and have SUCKED since their inception, plus, Jersey is a FAR BETTER market for hockey than Columbus is. Philadelphia is TERRIBLE this year, and they're still averaging almost 20,000 at home, selling to 98.8% capacity. Now THAT is loyalty.

Maybe THAT'S why the Devils missed a sellout in game 7 of the 2003 Stanley Cup finals by about 2,000.

I'm fine with you supporting the Devils, you have the freedom to do so, just like I have the freedom to support the Rangers, and hate trap hockey.

But to argue that Devils hockey isn't boring is another story. The numbers, COLD HARD FACTS, are in my favor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by midg14 View Post
Yes. we really are one hell of a boring team. I mean why else would every fan tell us that after they lose to us? I'm sure If you won it would be a little less boring.
Not really, like I said before... I wouldn't spend the money I spend on the Rangers to go watch the Devils win. It's more exciting seeing the Rangers lose some of their games than it is watching the Devils win. Sports are a form of entertainment, and the attendance numbers I posted above will tell you that the Devils just are not entertaining.

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Old
01-17-2007, 03:51 PM
  #363
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I think the thread has run it's course. Every GDT degenerates into this.

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