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Dylan McIlrath (1/6: Skated without problem )

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Old
12-30-2013, 02:17 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
Sure. He made him a scratch. What does that have to do with being "nowhere near ready," though?
If he was knocking on the door of an NHL job, he'd still be here, period. Especially considering the injuries on defense.

If you were impressed by his 13 minutes of NHL time, I dont know what to tell you. I think he has a long way to go, and I dont know if he'll ever get there.

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12-30-2013, 02:18 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
Like I said. When you are concluding a 21 year old is a bust it's more a matter of no patience than anything else.
I didnt say he was a bust. You should show some patience when reading, I guess.

What I am saying is that the time is approaching where that conversation can start.

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12-30-2013, 02:19 PM
  #178
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I'm agnostic about DMi but it may be worth noting (or nothing) that EDM and Dallas both fired their GMs of 2010.

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12-30-2013, 02:26 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
If he was knocking on the door of an NHL job, he'd still be here, period. Especially considering the injuries on defense.

If you were impressed by his 13 minutes of NHL time, I dont know what to tell you. I think he has a long way to go, and I dont know if he'll ever get there.
Knocking on the door means "he got to play a bit in the nhl".

And they thought he would be better suited playing large minutes in the ahl than as a third pairing.
It's completely possible had he not been hurt that he would have been called up again after all the injuries instead of a Allen.

That you believe this starts the bust conversation shows how little patience you have.

Is this really all you have seen of him since he was drafted? 7 minutes of play? And you think you can accurately determine anything by that? Frankly I would be embarrassed making any such statements off a tiny sample size like that

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12-30-2013, 02:31 PM
  #180
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Are people forgetting he was absolutely brutal and over-matched in the preseason as well?

It's obvious the organization is trying to speed up his development as much as possible with the minutes he's receiving in Hartford, but in his very limited time in the NHL, he's shown he's still a ways away. And even if he isn't a ways away, what is his upside?

To this point, he's been a massive disappointment as a top 10 pick. Sure, it's still far too early to close the book on him, especially considering his injuries, but if you were told at the time he was drafted that this is where he'd be right now, nobody would want to go ahead with that pick.

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12-30-2013, 02:34 PM
  #181
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If you told me there is a 21 year old DMan who is playing huge minutes in the ahl at a high level who loves the physical aspect, who hits, who fights, and has improved ten fold in the past two years I bet you everyone on this forum would be thrilled to add him to the roster.

People are too obsessed with instant results and draft status. Long term plan. The exact thing everyone always whines and moans about the team not having. Then they whine that the results aren't fast enough. Brilliance

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12-30-2013, 02:34 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by irishlaxburger2 View Post
Are people forgetting he was absolutely brutal and over-matched in the preseason as well?

It's obvious the organization is trying to speed up his development as much as possible with the minutes he's receiving in Hartford, but in his very limited time in the NHL, he's shown he's still a ways away. And even if he isn't a ways away, what is his upside?

To this point, he's been a massive disappointment as a top 10 pick. Sure, it's still far too early to close the book on him, especially considering his injuries, but if you were told at the time he was drafted that this is where he'd be right now, nobody would want to go ahead with that pick.
Actually I'd say that anyone with realistic expectations of him figured he wouldn't be ready for NHL time by this year anyways, unless you felt he was going to take tremendous steps forward.

22/23 is the age that he should be capable of being an everyday player on this roster. He turns 22 in April.

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12-30-2013, 02:37 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Where is he headed? Do tell.

Because, at this point, no matter what you say, Im likely to expect more from a top 10 draft pick.

A 3rd pairing NHL regular who can drop the gloves is nice, but that should be found elsewhere.
My guess is as good as yours.

It seems the difference here is that I have no preconceptions of what he "should be" at this point based off his pick number, or what a "top 10 draft pick" should hypothetically be.

Based off McI as a prospect only, he's gotten much better, has more or less erased any question if he will become an NHL regular, and now has to build on becoming more than that 3rd pairing regular (which I think he basically is now).


For comparisons sake, Girardi played 34 games as a 22yr old in 06/07. He's been a regular player since.

Assuming a D trade is made this year, I wouldn't be surprised if McI plays 20+ games.

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12-30-2013, 03:19 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishlaxburger2 View Post
Are people forgetting he was absolutely brutal and over-matched in the preseason as well?

It's obvious the organization is trying to speed up his development as much as possible with the minutes he's receiving in Hartford, but in his very limited time in the NHL, he's shown he's still a ways away. And even if he isn't a ways away, what is his upside?

To this point, he's been a massive disappointment as a top 10 pick. Sure, it's still far too early to close the book on him, especially considering his injuries, but if you were told at the time he was drafted that this is where he'd be right now, nobody would want to go ahead with that pick.
Your forgetting he had a horrible knee injury to end the season last yr and fell behind?

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12-30-2013, 03:20 PM
  #185
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great post



Quote:
Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
if you told me there is a 21 year old dman who is playing huge minutes in the ahl at a high level who loves the physical aspect, who hits, who fights, and has improved ten fold in the past two years i bet you everyone on this forum would be thrilled to add him to the roster.

People are too obsessed with instant results and draft status. Long term plan. The exact thing everyone always whines and moans about the team not having. Then they whine that the results aren't fast enough. Brilliance

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12-30-2013, 03:28 PM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
If you told me there is a 21 year old DMan who is playing huge minutes in the ahl at a high level who loves the physical aspect, who hits, who fights, and has improved ten fold in the past two years I bet you everyone on this forum would be thrilled to add him to the roster.

People are too obsessed with instant results and draft status. Long term plan. The exact thing everyone always whines and moans about the team not having. Then they whine that the results aren't fast enough. Brilliance
HOW DARE YOU USE LOGIC HERE!!!!!! I agree with you 100%!

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12-30-2013, 03:33 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
If you told me there is a 21 year old DMan who is playing huge minutes in the ahl at a high level who loves the physical aspect, who hits, who fights, and has improved ten fold in the past two years I bet you everyone on this forum would be thrilled to add him to the roster.

People are too obsessed with instant results and draft status. Long term plan. The exact thing everyone always whines and moans about the team not having. Then they whine that the results aren't fast enough. Brilliance
If McIlrath winds up a third pairing guy that plays tough and drops the mitts, I will be disappointed. Does that fill a need? Sure it does. But that need shouldn't be filled with a top ten draft pick. Thats just brutal asset management. At this point in time, I dont see him evolving into much more - hope Im wrong.

As for your "long term plan" stuff, you'll have to explain how McIlrath is part of a long term plan when it seems like the Rangers just transitioned out of a defensive scheme that would've seemed to have fit him nicely, and are playing a game that doesn't seem to mesh with his positives.

If you think this organization has had some sort of long-term plan, then you haven't been paying attention.

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12-30-2013, 03:33 PM
  #188
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I think people need to learn what "sunk costs" are. The pick we drafted him in is a sunk cost. We can't do anything about it. No use *****ing about what pick we took him, that ship has sailed. If he develops into a good, tough top 4 D-man we have a good player. Would he be worth a top 10 pick? Probably not. But what's the use of *****ing about it? You can't redo the draft. Just take him for what he's worth now, who cares where he was drafted?

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12-30-2013, 03:36 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
At this point in time, I dont see him evolving into much more.
Thats something entirely different than what youve been saying.

You were saying hes a borderline bust because he isnt playing now.

Thats not the same thing as saying you dont think he will ever be better than a 3rd line pairing.

I dont agree. But at least you are making a legitimate argument with that one.

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12-30-2013, 03:36 PM
  #190
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Sauer was drafted in 2005, had a zillion injuries and magically came out of nowhere to be one of the team's best defensemen -- almnost six years after getting drafted.

It was worth the wait. Sauer was the slowest guy on the planet but his positioning and board play was exceptional. before his injury I though he was better than Staal and Girardi in his own end and I will always stand by that.

McIlrath can develop into Sauer with a mean streak. You take that and run no matter what draft position he was selected or who was taken after him.

Sauer was given a cup a coffee in 2009 and in some random afternoon game against the Penguins and was smoked for two goals in like a minute. He didnt play for the Rangers again until a season later.

Be patient with McIlrath. Keep being patient.


And for the record, Fowler is having an excellent season at both ends of the ice. He's been very good. he's not Ray Bourque but he's no liability like he was the previous seasons.

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12-30-2013, 03:39 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
Thats something entirely different than what youve been saying.

You were saying hes a borderline bust because he isnt playing now.


Thats not the same thing as saying you dont think he will ever be better than a 3rd line pairing.

I dont agree. But at least you are making a legitimate argument with that one.
I didnt say that. No matter how many times you think I did, I didnt.

If hes not an NHL regular by next year, we can start having that conversation. If the dude becomes an NHL regular, you can't call him a bust. But the jury is still out regarding if he will.

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12-30-2013, 03:40 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I think people need to learn what "sunk costs" are. The pick we drafted him in is a sunk cost. We can't do anything about it. No use *****ing about what pick we took him, that ship has sailed. If he develops into a good, tough top 4 D-man we have a good player. Would he be worth a top 10 pick? Probably not. But what's the use of *****ing about it? You can't redo the draft. Just take him for what he's worth now, who cares where he was drafted?
Theres a good way to run an organization. We ****ed up that top ten pick. Whatever. Hope he makes the NHL at some point.

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12-30-2013, 03:48 PM
  #193
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Theres a good way to run an organization. We ****ed up that top ten pick. Whatever. Hope he makes the NHL at some point.
So you arent saying hes a bust, but you are saying they ****** up that pick?

Im not sure even you know what you are saying anymore.

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12-30-2013, 03:50 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I think people need to learn what "sunk costs" are. The pick we drafted him in is a sunk cost. We can't do anything about it. No use *****ing about what pick we took him, that ship has sailed. If he develops into a good, tough top 4 D-man we have a good player. Would he be worth a top 10 pick? Probably not. But what's the use of *****ing about it? You can't redo the draft. Just take him for what he's worth now, who cares where he was drafted?
I think sunk costs are an important principle, but more for decision makers than for fans discussing on a message board. I'd suggest that the Rangers have a good grasp on the concept (trading Sanguinetti for two lower picks is a good example). Yankees GM Brian Cashman apparently has no grasp of the concept, as he wouldn't give Kei Igawa to San Diego unless they ate some of the Yankees' posting fee...

But if we're only allowed to discuss things that make a difference, this will be a very quiet place.

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Old
12-30-2013, 03:53 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
So you arent saying hes a bust, but you are saying they ****** up that pick?

Im not sure even you know what you are saying anymore.
I could see how that is the case when you're hellbent on making excuses.

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12-30-2013, 03:56 PM
  #196
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I could see how that is the case when you're hellbent on making excuses.
Excuses for what?

This is exactly where I expected him to be at this point.

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12-30-2013, 03:58 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
Excuses for what?

This is exactly where I expected him to be at this point.
Thats wonderful.

The more important question is where you expect him to be when his development is complete.

Then, maybe you can answer that twisted riddle about how the Rangers could've ****ed up a top 10 pick without McIlrath being a bust.

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12-30-2013, 04:00 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I didnt say he was a bust. You should show some patience when reading, I guess.

What I am saying is that the time is approaching where that conversation can start.
Without getting all wordy like some others I would disagree that we are close to that conversation

Unless of course you have different time table for towering defensive physical defenceman.

Look at Chara. Drafted in 96. In the 98 thru 2001 seasons he was -62 in 206 games.

It took two post draft seasons and then three NHL seasons before Chara started to becone Chaea.

Nit comparing players skill sets just the fact that monster defenceman take time to develope properly

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12-30-2013, 04:01 PM
  #199
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Thats wonderful.

The more important question is where you expect him to be when his development is complete.

Then, maybe you can answer that twisted riddle about how the Rangers could've ****ed up a top 10 pick without McIlrath being a bust.
Expect him to be a top 4 defenseman.

Always have. Have seen nothing from him to change that opinion. The injuries are a concern, but hopefully its nothing serious this time.

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12-30-2013, 04:06 PM
  #200
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I think sunk costs are an important principle, but more for decision makers than for fans discussing on a message board. I'd suggest that the Rangers have a good grasp on the concept (trading Sanguinetti for two lower picks is a good example). Yankees GM Brian Cashman apparently has no grasp of the concept, as he wouldn't give Kei Igawa to San Diego unless they ate some of the Yankees' posting fee...

But if we're only allowed to discuss things that make a difference, this will be a very quiet place.
What's the point of constantly *****ing about something you can't change? Why not accept that he may not be worth a top 10 pick and hope that he becomes a good NHLer? Otherwise every thread about him gets polluted with repetitive whining about Fowler and Tarasenko (not that I haven't done that myself at some point).

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