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Zac Rinaldo (2013-14 season) -- Update Apr. 7, 2014: Suspended four games

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Old
12-31-2013, 05:27 PM
  #1
Damaged Goods
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Zac Rinaldo (2013-14 season) -- Update Apr. 7, 2014: Suspended four games

How much longer will Zac Rinaldo continue to get a pass? How much longer will he be allowed to fail as an NHL hockey player and be a liability to the team?

In just a half season of limited minutes (282 TOI), Rinaldo is a -11 and has taken 13 more penalties than he's drawn. He has 0 goals and 1 assist and ranks dead last amongst Flyers forwards in nearly every detailed metric.

+/- is not the most precise stat, but extreme outliers should not be ignored. With regular forward minutes (~12 or more minutes per game), Rinaldo is pacing below -40 when the next closest Flyers regular will not break -20. This would go along with -50 penalties taken/drawn over a full season of regular minutes (the equivalent of handing 10 excess Power Play goals to your opponent).

With Zac Rinaldo on ice 5v5, the Flyers score .73 goals per 60 and allow 3.39 (both numbers worst amongst all Flyers regulars). The Flyers have been outscored 14-3 with Rinaldo on ice 5v5, while they are just barely positive without him (95-93).

In other terms:

Without Rinaldo 5v5, the Flyers score 1.02 goals per every goal they allow. With Rinaldo, they score .21 goals per every conceded goal.

With Rinaldo: 4.67 goals allowed for every Flyers goal
Without Rinaldo: 0.98 goals allowed for every Flyers goal

Rinaldo is also last or 2nd to last among regular forwards in every Corsi%, Fenwick%, Shots%, Goals% category (total or relative) on the team and approaching Jay Rosehill levels of futility. He does all of this against below-average quality of competition.

The unsuccessful Rinaldo PK experiment is basically over (mercifully) because Raffl has superior capability and hockey IQ. Rinaldo neither provides offense, nor PKs, nor takes draws, nor defends, nor creates Power Plays. He just skates, hits, concedes goals and takes penalties. That is a net liability and it's something that should be worked out with the Phantoms, not the Flyers.

What you're left with is an undisciplined and untalented player whose 'intangibles' provide no tangible advantages to his team. Steve Downie is a far superior player in the energy role and gives you meaningful, quality minutes. Hartnell is a better agitator (drawing 50% more penalties than he takes). Replace Rinaldo with a player who belongs in the NHL and you'll lose the hits but find yourself better off with someone who plays sound hockey.


Last edited by MiamiScreamingEagles: 04-07-2014 at 05:38 PM.
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Old
12-31-2013, 05:40 PM
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Sniped
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Rinaldo was actually making some-what of a positive impact last year, this year is the polar opposite.

Berube seems to like him so I don't think he's going anywhere anytime soon (hope I'm wrong). Hopefully Tyrell Goulbourne can replace him in the next 2 years or so and maybe be better too...

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Old
12-31-2013, 05:44 PM
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Damaged Goods
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Even last year I think people were grasping at straws with him, but now there isn't a leg to stand on. His demotion is past due.

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12-31-2013, 06:31 PM
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I'm not going to compare them in depth statistically, but I liked Sestito more when he was here and watching him last night, I'd easily take him over Rinaldo. Rinaldo may be more "skilled" but neither will ever be skilled enough to play a shift in the top nine or play on the PK, so it's really irrelevant.

Sestito is a better fighter, has much more of an impact while only playing around five minutes a game, and has only taken six minors all year, while Rinaldo has taken 16!

Of course I'd rather have a good hockey player on the fourth line over either of those two, but compared to Rinaldo or Rosehill, I'd take Sestito all day.

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12-31-2013, 06:32 PM
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I would like to see McGinn given Rinaldo spot on the 4th line, especially since it looks like one of Downie, Raffl, or Hartnell will have to play on that line when everyone is healthy. It sucks to put one of them on that line with Hall who is very limited offensively and Rinaldo who has been terrible this season. I wish Rinaldo would play as well as he did last season, but he isn't close to that at all. IMO the forward lines should be

Raffl-Giroux-Voracek
Read-couturier-Downie
Schenn-Lecavalier-Simmonds
Hartnell-Hall-McGinn

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Old
12-31-2013, 06:46 PM
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There are a ton of fourth liners that aren't NHL caliber players. That's why they are on the fourth line.

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12-31-2013, 06:50 PM
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Yeah, I've seen enough. Having three competent players on the fourth line is important, especially when Berube wants to roll all four lines.

I'll take McGinn and Vandevelde over Rinaldo. Hell, the Flyers could've picked up Darroll Powe when the Rangers waived him earlier this season.

Rinaldo's not the absolute worst player a team could have, but there's definitely better options.

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Old
12-31-2013, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty but Good View Post
There are a ton of fourth liners that aren't NHL caliber players. That's why they are on the fourth line.
"Everyone else is doing it too" is not a good excuse to shoot yourself in the foot. Rinaldo is performing below replacement level. Ben Holmstrom is a fringe non-prospect who could replace Rinaldo tomorrow and decrease the Flyers exposure. Not to mention dozens of players in other organizations who could be had for next to nothing. The Flyers have 11 forwards who belong on an NHL roster. No reason not to get closer to having a 12th.

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12-31-2013, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OgbertTheNerd View Post
Yeah, I've seen enough. Having three competent players on the fourth line is important, especially when Berube wants to roll all four lines.

I'll take McGinn and Vandevelde over Rinaldo. Hell, the Flyers could've picked up Darroll Powe when the Rangers waived him earlier this season.

Rinaldo's not the absolute worst player a team could have, but there's definitely better options.
One can dream.

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Old
12-31-2013, 08:03 PM
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Claude28Giroux
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It seems Rinaldo isn't stirring the pot at all recently. No big hits or goading others into a penalty. Quiet.

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12-31-2013, 08:04 PM
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not every player is gunna be Giroux..

i still like what Rinaldo brings to the team.. sure he was better last year, but hes still a 4th liner..

he was very active yest. in Vancouver, stirring up **** and answering when Canucks tried to stir stuff up.

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12-31-2013, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
not every player is gunna be Giroux..

i still like what Rinaldo brings to the team.. sure he was better last year, but hes still a 4th liner..

he was very active yest. in Vancouver, stirring up **** and answering when Canucks tried to stir stuff up.
14-3 5v5 on-ice goals differential, -13 penalty differential and no special teams contributions. How godawful would he have to be for you to not "like" what he brings?

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12-31-2013, 09:09 PM
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Whats wrong with putting someone like Akeson on the 4th line along with Newbery. Guys that have a pedigree of scoring. Rinaldo is a fast skater supposedly, but it doesnt help his game any. It seems he's forgotten how to agitate without Talbot. And they cant trust Rinaldo or Rosehill to play more than 7 minutes most nights because he's such a liability. I thought they should have held onto Sestito. If anything he's a better Goal Scorer than Rosehill.

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12-31-2013, 09:34 PM
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lol wrong thread

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12-31-2013, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
14-3 5v5 on-ice goals differential, -13 penalty differential and no special teams contributions. How godawful would he have to be for you to not "like" what he brings?
im not a stats guy...

im a watching what someones doing on the ice game in game out.

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12-31-2013, 10:36 PM
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Update: -12 goals (3 for, 15 against), -12 penalties (12 drawn, 24 taken)

The Read injury really highlighted the need for 12 quality forwards. Suddenly the Flyers had to scramble 10 reliable players. Fortunately Calgary is bad.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
im not a stats guy...

im a watching what someones doing on the ice game in game out.
The numbers match what you're watching -- an offensive black hole who sees the puck go in his own net 5 times more frequently than the opponent's and takes twice as many penalties as he draws.


Last edited by Damaged Goods: 12-31-2013 at 10:50 PM.
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12-31-2013, 10:52 PM
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Zac plays a very important role on our club in my view.......it takes a bunch of different type players to make a team .

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12-31-2013, 10:54 PM
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Last year he was very effective. This year, not as much.

I do think Berube was making this case, actually, by trying him on the PK. Trying to justify him being in the lineup rather than speed/hitting.

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12-31-2013, 11:10 PM
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He's a 4th liner. who hits like a freight train.

i'll take it.

he's also a 4th line player. odd thread.

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12-31-2013, 11:31 PM
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Damaged Goods
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuchySays View Post
He's a 4th liner. who hits like a freight train.

i'll take it.

he's also a 4th line player. odd thread.

He's the embodiment of the type of roster inefficiency handicap this organization keeps imposing on itself. The Flyers could immediately upgrade their team talent 'for free' by replacing Rinaldo, but they choose not to. It's simply accepted as an article of faith that this "type" of player is needed on the roster and fills an "important role" when all the empirical evidence is to the contrary. We do our opponents a favor by rostering (and icing) a player of Rinaldo's ilk, and they have been exploiting our generosity. Putting Rinaldo on ice is the equivalent of giving the other team a mini Power Play (not to mention all the times it nets them a real Power Play).

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Old
12-31-2013, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuchySays View Post
He's a 4th liner. who hits like a freight train.

i'll take it.

he's also a 4th line player. odd thread.
exactly... he isnt Crosby.. but he is a full speed freight train, which i love seeing.

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Old
12-31-2013, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyerfan4life View Post
exactly... he isnt Crosby.. but he is a full speed freight train, which i love seeing.
The team would be better off with someone who stays in position instead of chasing meaningless (and often costly) hits. Even though Rinaldo plays easy competition, no Flyer is more frequently scored against.

No one is asking him to be Giroux or Crosby (huh?), but there are freely available players (even within the organization) who play a game that is not complete garbage.

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Old
01-01-2014, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SgtJoseph View Post
Zac plays a very important role on our club in my view.......it takes a bunch of different type players to make a team .
A bunch of different players that actually contribute meaningfully.

Thats fine he can hit. But he actualy has to hit people to do that. He is like a freight train thats running on a slow cruising speed.

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Old
01-01-2014, 12:51 AM
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Norm MacDonald
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuchySays View Post
He's a 4th liner. who hits like a freight train.

i'll take it.

he's also a 4th line player. odd thread.
A 4th line's primary goal is there to safely eat up a few minutes a game so the other lines aren't overworked. Rinaldo is a -12.

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Old
01-01-2014, 01:29 AM
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Vikke
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Yeah, I'd rather try VV or McGinn in his spot for a few games to see what happens, but that's very unlikely.

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