HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Chicago Blackhawks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Official Bears/NFL Thread XXVI - Clowney runs a 4.53 40

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
12-31-2013, 01:25 PM
  #26
Fortyfives
Registered User
 
Fortyfives's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,652
vCash: 500
Phil Emery on Pro Football Focus and Stats Inc:

"“Yes we’re going to pay attention to the coach’s grades. Yes we’re going to pay attention to our internal scouting grades. But let’s look at this another way. I went to STATS Inc., went through all the numbers. Went to Pro Football Focus, did all the numbers. I’m familiar with STATS Inc. We’re one of their contracted teams. Spent quite a bit of time with their people, not only their programmers but went to their offices, watched how they grade tape, how they triple check all their facts. So I trust all their data, that’s it’s unbiased, that it doesn’t have my hands in it, that it doesn’t have our coach’s or scout’s hands in it, or anybody else in the league. They are simply reporting fact. Some ways to look at it is in a very Money Ball way, crunching the numbers."

Fortyfives is offline  
Old
12-31-2013, 02:39 PM
  #27
RayP
Registered User
 
RayP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 59,889
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortyfives View Post
Lots of GMs are buying into these rating systems. But if it doesn't fit your narrative it's ok to bash it. Cutler and forte had good games deal with it.
I'm not saying Cutler had a bad game, but for those ratings to grade his game as better or more important than Forte's, that's just flat out wrong. I do think Cutler could have and should have had a better first half, and I will stand by that. Just not turning the ball over isn't good enough for a player of his caliber.


So because GMs buy into it that means it is automatically worth a damn? I disagree with that logic. Tebow went in the first round, so if the GM that drafted him in the first round uses it, what does that make of it?

RayP is offline  
Old
12-31-2013, 03:58 PM
  #28
massivegoonery
Registered User
 
massivegoonery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 11,533
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayP View Post
I'm not saying Cutler had a bad game, but for those ratings to grade his game as better or more important than Forte's, that's just flat out wrong. I do think Cutler could have and should have had a better first half, and I will stand by that. Just not turning the ball over isn't good enough for a player of his caliber.


So because GMs buy into it that means it is automatically worth a damn? I disagree with that logic. Tebow went in the first round, so if the GM that drafted him in the first round uses it, what does that make of it?
That's not really what the ratings are saying. Maybe you should figure out what they are saying and what you can get out of it before you start with the reflexive outrage.

massivegoonery is offline  
Old
12-31-2013, 04:21 PM
  #29
RayP
Registered User
 
RayP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 59,889
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
That's not really what the ratings are saying. Maybe you should figure out what they are saying and what you can get out of it before you start with the reflexive outrage.
Then please explain to me what this is suppose to mean:

According to @PFF Cutler (+4.0) was highest graded offensive player for #Bears. Graded much higher than Rodgers (-2.4).


How is that not saying that Cutler was a more important/better player than Forte on Sunday?

RayP is offline  
Old
12-31-2013, 04:25 PM
  #30
massivegoonery
Registered User
 
massivegoonery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 11,533
vCash: 500
The word you are looking for is "supposed." And it's supposed to mean that Cutler had a better game than Rodgers did. Other than that, why are you trying to divine the meaning of life from one stupid ****ing tweet?

massivegoonery is offline  
Old
12-31-2013, 04:28 PM
  #31
RayP
Registered User
 
RayP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 59,889
vCash: 50
I'm not talking about Cutler vs Rodgers, I'm talking about Cutler vs Forte. I never once compared Cutler to Rodgers. Not once.


And my point is all everyone does is posts these ridiculous stats, that may or may not be legit. It's a bogus stat, but it's thrown around here like whoever has the highest rating come the end of the season wins the Super Bowl.

RayP is offline  
Old
12-31-2013, 04:38 PM
  #32
massivegoonery
Registered User
 
massivegoonery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 11,533
vCash: 500
The tweet that you posted was making that comparison, which is a more valid one than comparing across positions. The rating measures how many times a player was successful in a situation thoughout the course of a game.

This is roughly balanced by position by normalizing to the number of situations an average player at a given position would have seen in a game like four years ago. The main value that this adds is being able to roughly tell who were positive and negative contributors on a team over the course of a game or season. Numerical comparisons across positions don't seem very valuable to me.

massivegoonery is offline  
Old
12-31-2013, 04:46 PM
  #33
LandofLincoln
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Chicago
Posts: 3,128
vCash: 500
As much as I hate the Packers in the regular season. I don't hate them in the playoffs. I'll always root for my home teams University of Illinois & Northwestern, but if they don't make a bowl game I root for Big Ten in all of the Bowl Championship games.

It has been ten years they've been kicking the Bears behinds. So when the Bears are eliminated I want Green Bay to win, and it has been a less stressful sports life. I've been like this for about six years now. I feel better about myself.

Go Bears and lets get'm next year.

LandofLincoln is offline  
Old
12-31-2013, 04:48 PM
  #34
Fortyfives
Registered User
 
Fortyfives's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,652
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayP View Post
I'm not talking about Cutler vs Rodgers, I'm talking about Cutler vs Forte. I never once compared Cutler to Rodgers. Not once.


And my point is all everyone does is posts these ridiculous stats, that may or may not be legit. It's a bogus stat, but it's thrown around here like whoever has the highest rating come the end of the season wins the Super Bowl.

Forte rated a +2.2 overall. With a +.8 in rushing, +1.2 in passing, and +.2 in blocking.

Which means overall he had an above average game in all categories. While forte had a great game statistically the system tries to look deeper than that.

They grade every play. Just because Forte runs for 20 yards doesn't mean it was an above average play. It depends what the game situation in was and how many yards after being touched he got. Its a way of bringing stats and game analysis together.

I wouldn't get too deep into a +4 cutler vs a +2.2 forte. If you want to read more about the grading here you go.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/about/grading/

Fortyfives is offline  
Old
12-31-2013, 04:52 PM
  #35
RayP
Registered User
 
RayP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 59,889
vCash: 50
I already read into it, posted that I did with a link for those who also might be curious about it, but I think you guys are just picking which posts you want to read and don't want to... so not point in going any further into this.


Agree to disagree, I guess.

RayP is offline  
Old
12-31-2013, 04:54 PM
  #36
Fortyfives
Registered User
 
Fortyfives's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,652
vCash: 500
Also, Forte was tied for third in running backs last week.

1) LeGarrette Blount 3.0
2) Knowshon Moreno
3) Lamar Miller
4) Matt Forte

Fortyfives is offline  
Old
12-31-2013, 05:01 PM
  #37
Fortyfives
Registered User
 
Fortyfives's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,652
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayP View Post
I already read into it, posted that I did with a link for those who also might be curious about it, but I think you guys are just picking which posts you want to read and don't want to... so not point in going any further into this.


Agree to disagree, I guess.
No problem...

At least we can feel good that Major Wright rated dead last for the year in safeties while Chris Conte was 4 worst.

Fortyfives is offline  
Old
12-31-2013, 05:04 PM
  #38
RayP
Registered User
 
RayP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 59,889
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortyfives View Post
No problem...

At least we can feel good that Major Wright rated dead last for the year in safeties while Chris Conte was 4 worst.
Podlesh is the only player that is close to as bad as Conte at his job, on the Bears. God he sucks. We'd have been better off with Gould trying to learn how to punt on the job.

RayP is offline  
Old
12-31-2013, 05:07 PM
  #39
Fortyfives
Registered User
 
Fortyfives's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,652
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayP View Post
Podlesh is the only player that is close to as bad as Conte at his job, on the Bears. God he sucks. We'd have been better off with Gould trying to learn how to punt on the job.
Holy crap I just looked him up, he was dead last as well! He had by far the worst average for a punter that played most of the season.

Fortyfives is offline  
Old
12-31-2013, 05:09 PM
  #40
RayP
Registered User
 
RayP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 59,889
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fortyfives View Post
Holy crap I just looked him up, he was dead last as well! He had by far the worst average for a punter that played most of the season.
Yeah, I looked that up a few days ago and compared to other punters, he was actually worse than I thought he was going to be before I looked it up... And I thought he was going to really suck before I looked it up. He was horrible last year, too, and I'm not sure why he wasn't cut after last year. I'd be fine spending a 7th round pick on a new punter if it guaranteed he was gone. There was really no excuse for him to even be on the roster this year.


Aside from Gould and Hester, the rest of our special teamers suck. Makes you appreciate a guy like Brendon Ayanbadejo that much more in retrospect.

RayP is offline  
Old
12-31-2013, 05:14 PM
  #41
RayP
Registered User
 
RayP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 59,889
vCash: 50
Speaking of special teams, is there any reason at all why Joe DeCamillis should not be fired along with Mel Tucker? The bright spots on special teams were already in place before he even got here.

RayP is offline  
Old
12-31-2013, 05:16 PM
  #42
madgoat33
Registered User
 
madgoat33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 14,154
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RayP View Post
Podlesh is the only player that is close to as bad as Conte at his job, on the Bears. God he sucks. We'd have been better off with Gould trying to learn how to punt on the job.
Major Wright was completely awful too, the problem is where as conte was in position a lot and just sucks and clearly missed tackles, often wright was out to lunch on the play so you don't get to see how bad he is watching on tv.

madgoat33 is offline  
Old
12-31-2013, 05:17 PM
  #43
RayP
Registered User
 
RayP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 59,889
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
Major Wright was completely awful too, the problem is where as conte was in position a lot and just sucks and clearly missed tackles, often wright was out to lunch on the play so you don't get to see how bad he is on film.
Oh I know, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Wright doesn't suck. It just seems that Conte was actually in the picture when he screwed up, time and time again. Wright as you said was so bad, that he didn't even bother to cover anyone so you didn't see him... so a lot of the time that deflects some of the blame from him, if what I'm trying to say makes sense.

RayP is offline  
Old
12-31-2013, 08:42 PM
  #44
Blackhawkswincup
Tornado Warning
 
Blackhawkswincup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Chicagoland
Country: United States
Posts: 118,096
vCash: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gootie View Post
@mikecwright: Bears signed P Drew Butler, per NFL source.

Kevin Butler's son
Hopefully he can remove the Podlesh mistake from roster

Laurence Holmes - Adam Podlesh (-10.8) finished as the lowest graded punter in #NFL. McClellin had 9 straight games with negative grades according to @PFF


Last edited by Blackhawkswincup: 12-31-2013 at 08:52 PM.
Blackhawkswincup is offline  
Old
01-01-2014, 12:31 AM
  #45
Sarava
Moderator
 
Sarava's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Naperville, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 10,403
vCash: 500
It's looking like you were right about McClellin, BWC.

Sarava is offline  
Old
01-01-2014, 12:39 AM
  #46
madgoat33
Registered User
 
madgoat33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 14,154
vCash: 500
not sure why you're so surprised. He didn't look great as a situational pass rusher last year and looked completely awful as an every down DE this year. While BWC was the most vocal, quite a few people said he wasn't an NFL DE from day 1.

madgoat33 is offline  
Old
01-01-2014, 12:55 AM
  #47
Gootie
Thug of the Year
 
Gootie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chiraq
Country: United States
Posts: 27,014
vCash: 500
He just doesn't have football strength or the motor. My biggest surprise was that he doesn't even appear to have a burst as a speed rusher. While it was legitimate to question whether he was best suited as a 4-3 end, a ton of garbage reasoning was used in writing him off the second we drafted him.

Gootie is offline  
Old
01-01-2014, 01:58 AM
  #48
Sarava
Moderator
 
Sarava's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Naperville, IL
Country: United States
Posts: 10,403
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gootie View Post
He just doesn't have football strength or the motor. My biggest surprise was that he doesn't even appear to have a burst as a speed rusher. While it was legitimate to question whether he was best suited as a 4-3 end, a ton of garbage reasoning was used in writing him off the second we drafted him.
That was just it. He appeared to some to have the body/build of a linebacker and not one to play on the line. There's still time for him to show otherwise, but it's not looking like garbage reasoning at this point.

Sarava is offline  
Old
01-01-2014, 02:05 AM
  #49
Gootie
Thug of the Year
 
Gootie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Chiraq
Country: United States
Posts: 27,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarava View Post
That was just it. He appeared to some to have the body/build of a linebacker and not one to play on the line. There's still time for him to show otherwise, but it's not looking like garbage reasoning at this point.
It went way beyond his body/build

Gootie is offline  
Old
01-01-2014, 11:23 AM
  #50
madgoat33
Registered User
 
madgoat33's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 14,154
vCash: 500
It did?

madgoat33 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:48 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.