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Zuccarello Appreciation Thread Part 2

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12-31-2013, 09:24 AM
  #226
Fitzy
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He is faster and more decisive, in my eyes. The skill is the same, but he has learned to skate and make decisions at a pace that keeps up with the NHL.

He'll never be MSL but he has shown he is a very competent top 6 player and that smaller guys continue to be late bloomers.

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12-31-2013, 09:45 AM
  #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
He is faster and more decisive, in my eyes. The skill is the same, but he has learned to skate and make decisions at a pace that keeps up with the NHL.

He'll never be MSL but he has shown he is a very competent top 6 player and that smaller guys continue to be late bloomers.
I think few people believe he'll be MSL. However, it seems people think it's MSL or mediocrity when he can be a very solid 2nd liner and even a decent 1st liner if he keeps this up.

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12-31-2013, 10:06 AM
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
He is faster and more decisive, in my eyes. The skill is the same, but he has learned to skate and make decisions at a pace that keeps up with the NHL.

He'll never be MSL but he has shown he is a very competent top 6 player and that smaller guys continue to be late bloomers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I think few people believe he'll be MSL. However, it seems people think it's MSL or mediocrity when he can be a very solid 2nd liner and even a decent 1st liner if he keeps this up.
MSL is an incredible player. MSL is my favorite non Ranger player in the NHL. Zooks will never be MSL as you pointed out but he does not have to be MSL. He can be Zooks and that has been pretty darn good. MSL can score his 75-90 points a year. Zooks will score his 50-65 points a year.

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12-31-2013, 10:18 AM
  #229
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50-65 will make him a decent 1st liner let alone top 6er.

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12-31-2013, 11:18 AM
  #230
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12-31-2013, 11:32 AM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I think few people believe he'll be MSL. However, it seems people think it's MSL or mediocrity when he can be a very solid 2nd liner and even a decent 1st liner if he keeps this up.
Exactly. People think that all undersized players should be compared to Marty. Here's a fact: Marty St. Loius is one of the best players to ever play the game. Period. At age 38 he is still the best forward on the Bolts minus Stamkos who is injured. He has been playing at an elite level for near 10 years.

Not all small guys need to be MSL to be good. Or even Theo Fleury. You just have to be good. And Zucc is ******* good.

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12-31-2013, 03:41 PM
  #232
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Zucc will become the next Wayne Gretzky...just a little smaller

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12-31-2013, 03:45 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by PromNite View Post
Exactly. People think that all undersized players should be compared to Marty. Here's a fact: Marty St. Loius is one of the best players to ever play the game. Period. At age 38 he is still the best forward on the Bolts minus Stamkos who is injured. He has been playing at an elite level for near 10 years.

Not all small guys need to be MSL to be good. Or even Theo Fleury. You just have to be good. And Zucc is ******* good.
Right, you don't know how many times I read a criticism of Zucc, mostly because he's short and apparently soft and then followed by "he ain't no MSL". Like, there's an in between. If the standard for a player is MSL we should just trade everyone on this team.

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12-31-2013, 04:26 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
.....aaaand just like that. His outstanding play for a month gets overblown
Zuccarello makes his teammates better


Personally, I think if you can't see that he is a good player, maybe you need to consider wearing a helmet around in your everyday life.

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12-31-2013, 06:56 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
.....aaaand just like that. His outstanding play for a month gets overblown
Title aside, it's actually a solid article. You should try reading it. Your screen name confuses me. What team are you actually a fan of: Islanders, Devils?

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12-31-2013, 08:01 PM
  #236
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know matter what we all think is the ideal qualities to have to be a top player in this league.. all of us should atleast be happy that he is playing like he is!!
seems like some on this board almost wants him to fail... him playing good equals nyr playing better, witch should be whats important!! happy newyears!!

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01-01-2014, 02:39 AM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Cake or Death View Post
Title aside, it's actually a solid article. You should try reading it. Your screen name confuses me. What team are you actually a fan of: Islanders, Devils?
I'm sure he'll spin it that it's tough love and he actually loves them more than everyone else and just wants the Rangers to win so he bashes the team. While we simpletons are perfectly fine with a terrible product and are ok with mediocrity. That's his MO. He has 4 types of posts. Posts where he bashes the team, it's coaches and players (85% of the posts). Posts where he implicitly or explicitly tells everyone how much of a better and smarter fan he is (7.5%), posts where he explicitly insults total strangers behind a computer screen because they're clearly too stupid to agree with him (7.49%), and posts where he praises a player to prove to everyone that he's not a hater and merely is an objective observer (0.01%).

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01-01-2014, 09:31 PM
  #238
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I think Zucc is just more involved, and, amazingly, winning board battles. thats whats really turned his game around.

just like Kreider. hes gone out and said, this is my puck, and he goes and gets it. and when hes got it, he doesnt want to give it up until the right play is there. he doesnt force stuff as much as he used to.

kids improved leaps and bounds.

its really amazing how well his board play has become...i think thats a little of Hagelin rubbing off on him.

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01-01-2014, 11:40 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by SnowblindNYR View Post
I'm sure he'll spin it that it's tough love and he actually loves them more than everyone else and just wants the Rangers to win so he bashes the team. While we simpletons are perfectly fine with a terrible product and are ok with mediocrity. That's his MO. He has 4 types of posts. Posts where he bashes the team, it's coaches and players (85% of the posts). Posts where he implicitly or explicitly tells everyone how much of a better and smarter fan he is (7.5%), posts where he explicitly insults total strangers behind a computer screen because they're clearly too stupid to agree with him (7.49%), and posts where he praises a player to prove to everyone that he's not a hater and merely is an objective observer (0.01%).
That made me laugh. But mainly more disappointed than anything. The dude is clearly passionate about the team. If he could tone down the pessimism, negativity, and the occasional condescending manner, I think he generally knows his stuff and would be an excellent poster. So I'm hoping for a few mild tweaks, because I don't think he's intentionally being a jerk or anything and I think he could be a solid poster.

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01-02-2014, 09:04 AM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Cake or Death View Post
That made me laugh. But mainly more disappointed than anything. The dude is clearly passionate about the team. If he could tone down the pessimism, negativity, and the occasional condescending manner, I think he generally knows his stuff and would be an excellent poster. So I'm hoping for a few mild tweaks, because I don't think he's intentionally being a jerk or anything and I think he could be a solid poster.
Perhaps this conversation would be a bit more worthwhile if I cared for even one second what you two think of me. It is my personal belief that individual player praising is a worthless endeavor.

"Zuccarello is playing really well!"
"Totally!"
"He could be the next MSL!"
"Yea!"

Identifying and discussing roster problems leads to much more stimulating discussion - and, unfortunately, Glen Sather has given plenty of ammunition in that department over the years.

Allow me to address the original post that got everyones panties in a bunch - I was not knocking Zuccarello. Hes been really good the past month. Truth be told, the organization uprooted their entire philosophy in the offseason to suit Zuccarello's type of game, so he SHOULD be playing well, and he is. Good for him.

Where the conversation goes off the rails is when people start talking about "Wow, imagine how good we'd be if __________ was playing up to his potential too!" Is any real thought given to why a large portion of players annually struggle to meet expectations? Theres a few reasons, chief among them being Sather's propensity to acquire one-dimensional type players. And since he seems hell-bent on shaking up the direction of this team on an annual basis, my advice is this. Enjoy Zuccarello's success while you can.

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01-02-2014, 09:14 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
. It is my personal belief that individual player praising is a worthless endeavor.
Then why are you posting in a player praise thread except to troll and be a dick?

I mean, I don't really care that much either way but coming into a thread specifically about praising a player for his good play so that you can say "I hate it when people praise individual players!" is downright silly and reflects pretty poorly upon you.

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01-02-2014, 09:22 AM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Then why are you posting in a player praise thread except to troll and be a dick?

I mean, I don't really care that much either way but coming into a thread specifically about praising a player for his good play so that you can say "I hate it when people praise individual players!" is downright silly and reflects pretty poorly upon you.
If I was trolling, I'd be saying something like Zuccarello is small and sucks! You are all idiots!

I've said in every post that Zuccarello is playing well over the last 15-20 games. Im not going to be one to slobber over that -- I think a conversation about why he's playing well, why the team can't escape mediocrity, and if Zuccarello's success is sustainable are points to facilitate discussion.

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01-02-2014, 09:23 AM
  #243
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Will Zooks be chosen for the Olympics?

Will Hag?

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01-02-2014, 09:29 AM
  #244
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
Will Zooks be chosen for the Olympics?

Will Hag?
Zucc played for Norway in the 2010 Olympics:


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01-02-2014, 09:49 AM
  #245
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Zucc played for Norway in the 2010 Olympics:

I remember that but I have not heard his name or Hags name. I would think they would make their respective teams unless I'm missing something.

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01-02-2014, 09:51 AM
  #246
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
Will Zooks be chosen for the Olympics?

Will Hag?
Zuccarello should definitely be on Norway

Not so sure Hagelin is good enough to make a very strong Sweden squad.

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01-02-2014, 10:09 AM
  #247
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I remember that but I have not heard his name or Hags name. I would think they would make their respective teams unless I'm missing something.
Zucc *IS* team Norway.

Hags is on the bubble. Sweden is very deep. If they need his speed and forecheck, he will make it. based purely on scoring ability, they have other options.

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01-02-2014, 10:18 AM
  #248
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
If I was trolling, I'd be saying something like Zuccarello is small and sucks! You are all idiots!
Except for that last bit, lots of people have been saying that

Not so much lately though, but its been an ongoing "issue" ever since he started playing professional hockey. He is a small guy, thats simply a fact. As a small guy, getting hit by buffaloes like Chara etc.. one would naturally wonder if it takes more of a toll on a small player than a larger player.

When he played for Frisk Asker, it was said that he was a bit on the small side. When he moved to Swedish Modo, it was said that he was TOO small, that he'd be crushed. When he moved from Modo to the Rangers, it was said that we'd be lucky if he came home alive (ok, thats overdoing it, but the "too small" crowd went into an absolute frenzy when the NHL got on the table).

He has "been too small" for every league he's played in. He is simply quite a bit smaller than what people "expect" out of your average hockey player.

And its a reasonable question to ask. I feel that he's shown that he is not out of place though.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I've said in every post that Zuccarello is playing well over the last 15-20 games. Im not going to be one to slobber over that -- I think a conversation about why he's playing well, why the team can't escape mediocrity, and if Zuccarello's success is sustainable are points to facilitate discussion.
You have

As for why he is playing well, thats probably down to a number of factors. With Torts, he always knew exactly where he stood (which was one very small step away from taking the bus to the pack). If you made a mistake in Torts system, or if you took a penalty, etc, if you were a "fringe player", your life expectancy was...well, nonexistent really.

With AV, its a bit more "open", they've switched from the dump & chase style to trying to carry the puck up the ice, which in general terms i think fits Zuke better. He also gets more ice time, and is used in more situations, which i am sure gives him a lot of confidence, which is also a factor.

Why the team as a whole struggles would require a lengthy response, and this is the wrong thread for that (not that i have the answer anyway).

And finally, if Zucc's point production is sustainable. I dont know, i honestly dont. I'd say probably not as he is almost a 1 PPG.

For me personally, his 0.5 PPG production, which is what he has had as a career Ranger prior to this season, is what i "expect of him" (35 - 45 points over the course of a season). Anything more than that is just gravy.

But he is still "developing", getting faster, positionally smarter, etc, so a 0.75 PPG (IE, 50 - 60 points on the season) is at least potentially within reach.

But his 1 PPG run over the last 30 or so games is probably aiming too high, i dont expect him to manage to be that consistent.

God, this reply turned into a book...lol

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01-02-2014, 10:18 AM
  #249
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Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
Will Zooks be chosen for the Olympics?

Will Hag?
Zuc is an absolute lock on Norway's 1st line along with KHL-Star Patrick Thoresen (former Flyers and Oilers player).

Not too hard to get on the Norwegian team considering the horrible depth we got. We got one good offensive line, and that's it. Our goalie depth is good though.

Hagelin will probably not make the Swedish team.


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01-02-2014, 10:25 AM
  #250
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Zucc *IS* team Norway.
Thats overstating it a tad, hehe. But its no doubt that he and Patrick Thoresen are the two best players Norway has, and seeing that Norway is not particularly deep, it would be a tremendous loss if either of those two was not on the team.

Zuke will be playing for Norway during the Olympics, yes (and our opening match is against Canada....lol).

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