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1976 Broad Street Bullies vs Soviet Red Army

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12-24-2013, 11:37 AM
  #126
Killion
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Originally Posted by Sentinel View Post
Being spat on is certainly an unpleasant experience (and a disgusting thing to do), but you keep mentioning it in the same breath as The Slash, which is ridiculous.
Oh geez, no Sentinel. Entirely different matters of conduct, of code & etiquette. A slash is usually reactive, born of frustration or used to hinder an opponent, sort of combination slash/hook. In the rare, and I do mean very rare cases, premeditated, planned from the bench as in the case of that beyond nasty 2 hander Clarke so ably demonstrated on Kharlamovs ankle. Deliberate intent to injure. Assassin.... Spitting on another player however, that is the absolute Zenith of disrespect, beyond personal. Major ultimate insult. That the victim is trash. Waste of space. Meat bag. Deliberate & direct challenge. Beyond provocative. Its far worse than slurs, xenophobia or racism. I dare say worse than running a goalie, high head shots, blindsides, sucker punches, 2 handers, elbows, you name it. Most unsportsmanlike thing a player can do and if they do do it, then they are also very likely practitioners of the aforementioned dirty deeds in one form or another. No, you spit at another player in hockey, football, whatever sport your goin down.

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12-24-2013, 11:44 AM
  #127
Dennis Bonvie
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Oh geez, no Sentinel. Entirely different matters of conduct, of code & etiquette. A slash is usually reactive, born of frustration or used to hinder an opponent, sort of combination slash/hook. In the rare, and I do mean very rare cases, premeditated, planned from the bench as in the case of that beyond nasty 2 hander Clarke so ably demonstrated on Kharlamovs ankle. Deliberate intent to injure. Assassin.... Spitting on another player however, that is the absolute Zenith of disrespect, beyond personal. Major ultimate insult. That the victim is trash. Waste of space. Meat bag. Deliberate & direct challenge. Beyond provocative. Its far worse than slurs, xenophobia or racism. I dare say worse than running a goalie, high head shots, blindsides, sucker punches, 2 handers, elbows, you name it. Most unsportsmanlike thing a player can do and if they do do it, then they are also very likely practitioners of the aforementioned dirty deeds in one form or another. No, you spit at another player in hockey, football, whatever sport your goin down.
Killer, you are so provincial.

In some societies spitting in someone is a sign of respect. Or big brother spitting on little brother because ma said you can't hit him.

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12-24-2013, 01:50 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
Killer, you are so provincial.
... ya, I guess, and showing the soles of your bare feet to people in some cultures is also a sign of disrespect, using utensils while eating, all manner of bizarro world forms of etiquette that one isnt supposed to breach. As it just so happens though, spitting on ones opponent in any sport in North America absolutely de rigueur. Simply. Not. Done. Did we all do it as children? Perhaps some in-game but by God, only once. The pleasure just not worth the pain that swiftly fell.... though come to think of it, I personally preferred far more diabolical forms of insult & torture, incitements or as I thought of them enticements to create riot. Spittings too easy. Anyone can do that. Just not creative enough Im afraid.

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12-24-2013, 02:00 PM
  #129
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... ya, I guess, and showing the soles of your bare feet to people in some cultures is also a sign of disrespect, using utensils while eating, all manner of bizarro world forms of etiquette that one isnt supposed to breach. As it just so happens though, spitting on ones opponent in any sport in North America absolutely de rigueur. Simply. Not. Done. Did we all do it as children? Perhaps some in-game but by God, only once. The pleasure just not worth the pain that swiftly fell.... though come to think of it, I personally preferred far more diabolical forms of insult & torture, incitements or as I thought of them enticements to create riot. Spittings too easy. Anyone can do that. Just not creative enough Im afraid.
But those Russian fellas weren't from North America, were they?

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12-24-2013, 02:29 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
But those Russian fellas weren't from North America, were they?
Well, if it was and or is still common practice to be laying a goober on your opponent in Russia (which I highly doubt) & bring it with them, damn straight they try that on in International Play against North Americans... Boris is going to receive a swift lesson in etiquette.

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12-24-2013, 03:40 PM
  #131
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Have anyone got suspended for spitting in the NHL? What marquee examples of this exists?

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12-24-2013, 04:33 PM
  #132
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Have anyone got suspended for spitting in the NHL? What marquee examples of this exists?
Ok, this is now getting ridiculous DY. Im sure the odd loony toons spit in another players face or general direction in the NHL torching off riots.... on another thread here just over the past couple of days purported that Nels Stewart & Hooley Smith chewed tobacco and spit it in the goalies face before they shot on the net. That I find completely implausible & ludicrous but I could imagine hard rock head cases like Smith & Stewart spitting on a guy to start a fight, create havoc. I could see a guy like Sean Avery spitting on someone, any number of total dweebs who never belonged in the league or as in the case of the 20's & 30's just a lot more in your face totally crude hockey.

But from the 40's onward? No way. You wont find any "marquee" names or a record of penalties issued for spitting because it was as rare as hens teeth ever happening & when it did happen a fight wouldve erupted, possibly worse, maybe a 2 hander to the guys head, back of the legs or ankle. You play any sport at an elite level in North America you dont spit at your opponent. Period. Psycho head jobs in the old Eastern league? Ya. Quite possibly. Then again, they wanted to fight right then & there. All they knew. But top end elite athletes & hockey players spitting at one another, you frikin kiddin me? Ive never seen it at ice level and I played some serious hockey nor have I ever seen it in over 50yrs of watching the NHL.

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12-24-2013, 04:54 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Ok, this is now getting ridiculous DY. Im sure the odd loony toons spit in another players face or general direction in the NHL torching off riots.... on another thread here just over the past couple of days purported that Nels Stewart & Hooley Smith chewed tobacco and spit it in the goalies face before they shot on the net. That I find completely implausible & ludicrous but I could imagine hard rock head cases like Smith & Stewart spitting on a guy to start a fight, create havoc. I could see a guy like Sean Avery spitting on someone, any number of total dweebs who never belonged in the league or as in the case of the 20's & 30's just a lot more in your face totally crude hockey.

But from the 40's onward? No way. You wont find any "marquee" names or a record of penalties issued for spitting because it was as rare as hens teeth ever happening & when it did happen a fight wouldve erupted, possibly worse, maybe a 2 hander to the guys head, back of the legs or ankle. You play any sport at an elite level in North America you dont spit at your opponent. Period. Psycho head jobs in the old Eastern league? Ya. Quite possibly. Then again, they wanted to fight right then & there. All they knew. But top end elite athletes & hockey players spitting at one another, you frikin kiddin me? Ive never seen it at ice level and I played some serious hockey nor have I ever seen it in over 50yrs of watching the NHL.
Recall a couple of incidences of spitting in the NFL. Bill Romanowski (Connecticut's own) for one. But he was pretty much a walking steroid rage.

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12-24-2013, 06:16 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
Recall a couple of incidences of spitting in the NFL. Bill Romanowski (Connecticut's own) for one. But he was pretty much a walking steroid rage.
Dexter Manley back in the '80s. Spit in the face of the Saints left tackle. Claimed he sneezed because he was allergic to holding. Big fine levied.

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12-24-2013, 06:43 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
Dexter Manley back in the '80s. Spit in the face of the Saints left tackle. Claimed he sneezed because he was allergic to holding. Big fine levied.
Dexter Manley: Illiterate college student.

Gotta love big time college sports in the states.

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12-24-2013, 06:59 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
Oh geez, no Sentinel. Entirely different matters of conduct, of code & etiquette. A slash is usually reactive, born of frustration or used to hinder an opponent, sort of combination slash/hook. In the rare, and I do mean very rare cases, premeditated, planned from the bench as in the case of that beyond nasty 2 hander Clarke so ably demonstrated on Kharlamovs ankle. Deliberate intent to injure. Assassin.... Spitting on another player however, that is the absolute Zenith of disrespect, beyond personal. Major ultimate insult. That the victim is trash. Waste of space. Meat bag. Deliberate & direct challenge. Beyond provocative. Its far worse than slurs, xenophobia or racism. I dare say worse than running a goalie, high head shots, blindsides, sucker punches, 2 handers, elbows, you name it. Most unsportsmanlike thing a player can do and if they do do it, then they are also very likely practitioners of the aforementioned dirty deeds in one form or another. No, you spit at another player in hockey, football, whatever sport your goin down.
Hardly. However, in my opinion, it is every bit offensive as the throat-slitting gesture, racial slurs, and sticking an opponent in the nether region. You just don't do because the reaction will be immediate, and deliberate.

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12-24-2013, 09:15 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by SaintPatrick33 View Post
Dexter Manley back in the '80s. Spit in the face of the Saints left tackle. Claimed he sneezed because he was allergic to holding. Big fine levied.
Roberto Alomar on an umpire in the late 90's. Disgusting display of disrespect. A major black mark on his HOF career. Especially in baseball, where the range of things you can do to hurt another player are much more limited.

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12-24-2013, 10:18 PM
  #138
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Hardly. However, in my opinion, it is every bit offensive as the throat-slitting gesture, racial slurs, and sticking an opponent in the nether region. You just don't do because the reaction will be immediate, and deliberate.
Ya, see, I guess its all a matter of degrees CB but making a throat cutting or other finger gestures, not really in the same ballpark. Racial slurs again, words but no actual physical contact. Spearing & sticking, viscous stickwork usually delivered when anger erupts whereas spitting in someones face is beyond provocative as it includes contact unlike a racial slur that can be ignored (or not as the case may be). Spitting requires immediate retaliation. Its not something you can ignore. Ultimate insult. Words not required as its beyond them, beyond using even the 'N' word. Transcends race, color, creed.

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12-27-2013, 07:56 AM
  #139
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Not to mention the spitting, the Russians especially were notorious for it.
Wait what? Do you have evidence of this? And by evidence, I mean that we were collectively notorious for spitting? Never heard that one before.

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12-27-2013, 12:30 PM
  #140
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Wait what? Do you have evidence of this? And by evidence, I mean that we were collectively notorious for spitting? Never heard that one before.
Heh, even somewhat recently...
http://www.hockeycanada.ca/en-ca/news/2003-fea-055-en

Listen, there was a lot of spitting going on in International tournies back in the 70's and 80's. A lot of the incidents were spoken of off the record as the Canadian and even American players were so disgusted about it they didn't even like talking about it publicly afterwards. Even trying to talk to some of them today about it takes a lot of prodding and even then, some of them still won't talk about it.

I've talked to enough ex-players and coaches and read enough hockey books to know it was going on quite regularly.
I even have a book around here somewhere with a translated interview from about 15 years ago of a Russian player on the '72 team that fully admits to spitting on the Canadians. That they were encouraged to do it by their coaches because they knew it riled them up and drew penalties. That they had been doing it vs amateur Canadian teams internationally for years. He then goes on to admit that most of the Canadians on that '72 team were more disciplined than the amateurs. He recalls Serge Savard cracking 2 of his ribs with a well concealed butt-end about 2-3 shifts after spitting on him.

If you haven't heard of it before, it's only because you either having been paying attention enough or you weren't asking the right questions.

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12-27-2013, 12:53 PM
  #141
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Well, then there is the another perspective. Someone once said, all is fair in love and war.

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12-27-2013, 01:03 PM
  #142
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Well, then there is the another perspective. Someone once said, all is fair in love and war.
... pretty much LBD. I dont however believe it was at all common nor accepted in Soviet league play nor employed tactically in International competitions when CCCP was playing the Czechs' or Swedes or whomever for example. It really was a case of Worlds Colliding & it was at times all out war. Our system vs theirs, East vs West, Communism vs Democracy. Full on body checking let alone fighting simply wasnt a part of the game on the other side of the pond.

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12-27-2013, 01:32 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by Killion View Post
... pretty much LBD. I dont however believe it was at all common nor accepted in Soviet league play nor employed tactically in International competitions when CCCP was playing the Czechs' or Swedes or whomever for example. It really was a case of Worlds Colliding & it was at times all out war. Our system vs theirs, East vs West, Communism vs Democracy. Full on body checking let alone fighting simply wasnt a part of the game on the other side of the pond.
And this is very true. The concept of finishing your check after the puck had been moved was a very foreign concept to the Russians back then.

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12-28-2013, 03:02 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by Rhiessan71 View Post
Heh, even somewhat recently...
http://www.hockeycanada.ca/en-ca/news/2003-fea-055-en

Listen, there was a lot of spitting going on in International tournies back in the 70's and 80's. A lot of the incidents were spoken of off the record as the Canadian and even American players were so disgusted about it they didn't even like talking about it publicly afterwards. Even trying to talk to some of them today about it takes a lot of prodding and even then, some of them still won't talk about it.

I've talked to enough ex-players and coaches and read enough hockey books to know it was going on quite regularly.
I even have a book around here somewhere with a translated interview from about 15 years ago of a Russian player on the '72 team that fully admits to spitting on the Canadians. That they were encouraged to do it by their coaches because they knew it riled them up and drew penalties. That they had been doing it vs amateur Canadian teams internationally for years. He then goes on to admit that most of the Canadians on that '72 team were more disciplined than the amateurs. He recalls Serge Savard cracking 2 of his ribs with a well concealed butt-end about 2-3 shifts after spitting on him.

If you haven't heard of it before, it's only because you either having been paying attention enough or you weren't asking the right questions.

What books?

Not saying I don't believe you, but I'd like to hear it from the horses mouth considering I've read nothing in English or Russian that says as such.
"I've talked with players, they rarely speak of it b/c they were so disgusted" doesn't leave much for evidence.

A link to the book (*particularly the interview with Soviet player*) would be insightful and appreciated.

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01-02-2014, 11:49 PM
  #145
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... pretty much LBD. I dont however believe it was at all common nor accepted in Soviet league play nor employed tactically in International competitions when CCCP was playing the Czechs' or Swedes or whomever for example. It really was a case of Worlds Colliding & it was at times all out war. Our system vs theirs, East vs West, Communism vs Democracy. Full on body checking let alone fighting simply wasnt a part of the game on the other side of the pond.
Right. If I'm walking home from a night shift and get attacked and the guy starts beating my brains out, any retaliation becomes fair game. In order to survive, I go for the guy's genitals to save my life.

I think its fair to say that both sides were intimidated by the other in 1972 in different ways. The Canadians fretting about the Russians skating and being ill prepared to keep up, they decide to beat 'em in the alley instead of on the ice (Clark's slash) to quote Conn Smythe. And the Russians, ill prepared to handle the Canadians hard checking get frustrated and respond in a way they thought could get under the skin of the Canadians. Neither side is innocent here. Nor should they be judged too much. This was war. And as Canadians, I think we value the players/teams that make the extra effort to succeed. I'm not saying I like to see any of that stuff because I think its unsportsmanlike. But if you weren't on the ice, I don't think anyone could really understand how intense it really was.

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01-03-2014, 12:36 AM
  #146
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^^^ Pretty much, ya. If your a friendly guy walking home from the night shift, never really been in a fight in your life save from maybe Grade 3 and just one time, no idea how to even defend yourself properly, totally alien and some guy comes up to you & starts wailing away? If your not out cold you fight back any way you can & not being trained or brought up with it you'll do whatever, go fo the groin, pick up a stick, go for the eyes. Fighting & heavy duty bodywork alien to the Soviets.... alien to the Canadians was the cycle game of 3-5-10 passes to their one, non linear non-lane hockey, a dizzying abstract array of patterns executed by superbly conditioned skaters & excellent stickhandlers. Caught them completely flatfooted, out of shape, winded, gasping for breath. Frankly its almost a miracle Canada won and I think even that term, that Canada "won" the Summit is misleading. I like to think of it more as a win for Russian hockey, and for the game in general as it changed it forever. All kinds of new colors added to the palette & all of it straight off the frozen ponds and shinny. Highly creative. At the time of course I wanted Canada to win but I didnt like how they played, went about it. Desperate hockey. Couldve been so much more.

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