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Old
01-02-2014, 03:03 PM
  #51
Striiker
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Originally Posted by onlylordsvsmorebp View Post
just finished watching russia vs usa-first thing,if i was an flyers scout i would be from the al davis school:size,speed,strength+attitude.i would be trying to build a big powerful la kings style team that won the cup vs slick shifty ********* pens,blackhawks teams.not just because i ****ing HATE both of those teams,i like heavy hockey.anyway i just saw that type of player that blew me away -russian-nikita zadorov.can someone (who has seen both morin and zadorov play more than a couple games like me)please explain and hopefully comfort me on why we took morin over this guy.hopefully because you think morin is just as good and has as much potential.iknow there is the russian angle but my god zadorov looks awesome.6 foot 5-230lbs-skates,moves great-INSANE shot from the point andMEAN.tell me there is a weak point,otherwise i wish we would have picked him instead.
also during the i saw another monster russian dman-nikita tryamkin-6foot7-230+ undrafted.ray ferraro said ''he couldnt believe no one has taken a FLYER on this player" tell me that isnt an omen.
Trying to read this gave me a headache...

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Old
01-02-2014, 03:18 PM
  #52
onlylordsvsmorebp
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Originally Posted by Striiker View Post
Trying to read this gave me a headache...
yeah,my quotes will do that.i guess i get a little excited.


Last edited by onlylordsvsmorebp: 01-02-2014 at 03:27 PM.
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Old
01-02-2014, 07:43 PM
  #53
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Yep, Brayden Schenn alone could get a top 10 pick.
I disagree here. I think his value now is a mid-1st rounder at best.

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01-02-2014, 08:36 PM
  #54
Cyborg LeClair
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Patience.

I believe we have the players in the organization to win a Stanley Cup. I don't know when, could be this year or it could be a few years.

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Old
01-03-2014, 12:40 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by FlyingPhilly View Post
I disagree here. I think his value now is a mid-1st rounder at best.
Schenn has top ten value IMO. Not top 5. But in this average 2014 draft I think he is easily worth a top 10 pick. In 2015 or 2013, he could maybe get you a top 10 but I am not sure. He is on pace to put up around 50 points, while playing 3rd line minutes. If Coburn could almost fetch a 7th overall pick in one of the deepest drafts in the history of the NHL, I am sure Schenn has top 10 value.

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01-03-2014, 12:25 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Tpinheiro4 View Post
Schenn has top ten value IMO. Not top 5. But in this average 2014 draft I think he is easily worth a top 10 pick. In 2015 or 2013, he could maybe get you a top 10 but I am not sure. He is on pace to put up around 50 points, while playing 3rd line minutes. If Coburn could almost fetch a 7th overall pick in one of the deepest drafts in the history of the NHL, I am sure Schenn has top 10 value.
Where are you getting the 7th overall for Coburn? The deal Dreger said was three 2nd rd picks.

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Oilers offered three 2nd round picks for Braydon Coburn at the Draft and couldn't close the deal. Trades in season are much harder to make.

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Old
01-03-2014, 12:32 PM
  #57
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Shows how dumb McTavish was if he thought that would be enough for the Flyers biggest minute eating defenseman.

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01-03-2014, 12:39 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Shows how dumb McTavish was if he thought that would be enough for the Flyers biggest minute eating defenseman.
I don't think is was dumb just par for the course for most GMs. NHL GMs are scared to lose a deal and face blowback from fans and the media. It was his way of offering nothing to get something. I am sure right now those are the type of terrible offers out there in the trade market and the big reason nothing ever gets done. Love him or hate him, at least Holmgren has the balls to make big deals.

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01-03-2014, 01:02 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
Where are you getting the 7th overall for Coburn? The deal Dreger said was three 2nd rd picks.
From what I heard Homer wanted the 7th pick from Edmonton, which they declined, which is why I said "almost".

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01-03-2014, 01:14 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Psuhockey View Post
I don't think is was dumb just par for the course for most GMs. NHL GMs are scared to lose a deal and face blowback from fans and the media. It was his way of offering nothing to get something. I am sure right now those are the type of terrible offers out there in the trade market and the big reason nothing ever gets done. Love him or hate him, at least Holmgren has the balls to make big deals.
This. No GM wants to be Homer in the JVR/Schenn trade. Those are the kind of deals that get you fired quickly, or at least they should. It's helped that JVR is still inconsistent as all hell, but every GM in the league is using that as their example of what not to do when you get desperate.

The 7th for Coburn would have had a lot of potential to work out the same way for McTavish.

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01-03-2014, 01:59 PM
  #61
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But how it's working out now is that their defense is terrible, and they will miss the playoffs again.

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01-03-2014, 02:02 PM
  #62
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Who, Edmonton or Toronto?

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01-03-2014, 02:05 PM
  #63
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Edmonton.

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01-03-2014, 02:11 PM
  #64
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Well I am not sure they can compete this season. The top teams are kinda stacked. There is a few problems on the Flyers roster. Hartnell + Vinny. You can pair them together. they are paid quite well and have 4+ years left on their deals. You need to find a way to make them useful. They will be incredibly difficult to trade so they need to find a way for these two to be effective in the upcoming seasons.
The next problem is Brayden Schenn. When he isn't set up, he hasn't been good. He is still young but he really needs to step it up and progress the next few seasons to be worth it. You are going to get Laughton next season to help the forwards.
Defensively, finding Kimmos replacement is top priority. Flyers need a #1 D-man. You can live with Streit - Coburn - Schenn - Grossman - Gus, as long as you get a Solid +1 d-man with a solid 7th defensemen.
For goalies, Mason should be resigned. A solid backup will need to be brought in.

That will get you pretty far. Will get a cup? I am not sure, depends on the younger players getting better and how good of a #1d you get

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01-03-2014, 02:15 PM
  #65
flyershockey
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Originally Posted by Curufinwe View Post
Edmonton.
But they also picked Nurse in that spot who has Coburn+ potential. Most of other players available at that spot also have the potential to be better than Coburn. Why would they run this risk of potentially losing out in the long term for a minimal gain short term? Coburn wasn't going to be the difference between them missing or making the playoffs this year. That team is a dumpster fire in all facets of the game.

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01-03-2014, 02:18 PM
  #66
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Nurse might not be ready to contribute for another three years, but if McTavish has the OK from management to miss the playoffs until 2017 then I guess he'll be fine. One of the main reasons Edmonton are so bad is that they play guys like Petry and Belov 18+ minutes a night.

Nurse also has the potential to only be as good as Coburn, or worse.


Last edited by Curufinwe: 01-03-2014 at 02:25 PM.
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Old
01-03-2014, 02:26 PM
  #67
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Well yeah I guess. But when you're that bad, the idea is to collect as many Nurses, Klefboms, and RNH's as possible in the hopes that you might have a winning collection in the future. Making moves to bring in a guy like Coburn (who isn't going to carry the unit) is half-assing a proper rebuild. Sure, it makes you somewhat better immediately, but you run the risk of trading for short term limited success instead of staying with a chance at a much greater long term success. This is the model that most teams in the league follow when rebuilding their clubs. Just not the Flyers. In fact, that would have been a very Flyers-like move had it gone through.

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01-03-2014, 03:18 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Tpinheiro4 View Post
From what I heard Homer wanted the 7th pick from Edmonton, which they declined, which is why I said "almost".
Almost means Edmonton was going to accept the deal. Saying Schenn could get a top 10 pick based on Edmonton declining the #7 pick for Coburn doesn't make much sense to me. Holmgren can offer Schenn for a top 10 pick but if nobody accepts the deal he isn't worth a top 10 pick.

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01-04-2014, 07:06 AM
  #69
C77
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Look at the best teams in the league...two or three really good defensemen that contribute offensively.

St. Louis for example has 3 offensive studs on their blue line....all much younger than Timonen + Streit. It really doesn't seem clear where the management wants to go.


Plus you need three good lines of forwards....obviously some of the forwards need to be special players. The Flyers have one forward that fits the bill right now...some of the others are good players but for the most part nothing special.

Obvious example....Kane Toews Hossa and former Flyer Sharp now with 25 goals...all elite players.


It has been somewhat of a tragic combination of bad management and bad luck with the Flyers...mostly bad management.

A few years back Philly was considered to have the best 1-6 defense in the league.

Plus there were Richards and Carter...two difference makers with the young Giroux coming along.

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01-04-2014, 08:19 AM
  #70
onlylordsvsmorebp
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It has been somewhat of a tragic combination of bad management and bad luck with the Flyers...mostly bad managment
when you think we were a couple of solid playoff goaltending performances away from the cup to this...so bad management coupled with tragically bad luck(pronger)...

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01-04-2014, 12:30 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by C77 View Post
Look at the best teams in the league...two or three really good defensemen that contribute offensively.

St. Louis for example has 3 offensive studs on their blue line....all much younger than Timonen + Streit. It really doesn't seem clear where the management wants to go.


Plus you need three good lines of forwards....obviously some of the forwards need to be special players. The Flyers have one forward that fits the bill right now...some of the others are good players but for the most part nothing special.

Obvious example....Kane Toews Hossa and former Flyer Sharp now with 25 goals...all elite players.


It has been somewhat of a tragic combination of bad management and bad luck with the Flyers...mostly bad management.

A few years back Philly was considered to have the best 1-6 defense in the league.

Plus there were Richards and Carter...two difference makers with the young Giroux coming along.
What happened to the defense is unfortunate. Losing Pronger to injury, Timonen aging, I mean, they weren't going to stick around and play at the level they were forever, but it happened pretty suddenly. And all at a time where our forward core was/is going through a transitional period.

Losing Richards and Carter hurt our defense somewhat, too. They were both solid two way players. Schenn & Simmonds just can't provide what Richards could in his own zone. Couturier is really the only player that came over in those trades (other than Grossman) that's a SOLID defensive player. Not only that, I feel like Giroux struggles with the defensive responsibilities that playing center entails. He's seemed to really focus and pick it up a bit this year, but there's definitely games where you can catch him sleeping, missing assignments, whatever.

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