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Team Toughness II

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Old
12-21-2013, 11:09 AM
  #301
Bleed Ranger Blue
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
no it's not.

The team is not talented enough to play a system that has proven success.

If there's a justified firing, it's the guy that keeps bringing in the wrong guys for the HC he has, or the wrong HC for the players he has.

AV is NOT the problem here.

The whole front office staff is, owner on down
Whether its in his nature or not, AV is going to have to go all Tortorella on this group. You get pucks deep, you fore-check like hell, you finish your checks...you play hard or you dont play at all.

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12-21-2013, 11:10 AM
  #302
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My definition of toughness encompasses more than just pugilism on ice. I would say a better way for me to communicate would be to refer to it as "The Will to Win Ratio".

Meaning, does this team collectively have it in them to do more than the guys on the side for the sake of the win? If so, just how far are they willing to go?

If it isn't up to par on a collective level, then I'd look at individual components, ones that need to go for the sake of raising that "Will to Win Ratio".

In my mind, a team with high "Will to Win Ratio" will out-compete their opponents, win or lose. If there is talent on those teams, and the top guys all have this made up intangible "Will to Win Ratio" I'm referring to, well I think you'd see a cup with those organizations, and those players getting paid like franchise players.
There used to be a quote on the locker room walls when Torts was coaching: "Everybody wants to win... not everyone is willing to prepare to win."

That mentality has clearly departed. The hard work, dedication, and compete level that was once required of this team to win games has all but disappeared. While some of these players will put maximum effort when challenge by an external source, they are incapable of motivating themselves. We lost the physical toughness with the departure of guys like Dubi and Prust, and then the mental toughness disappeared with the influx of Columbus players and the firing of Torts.

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12-21-2013, 11:11 AM
  #303
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
There used to be a quote on the locker room walls when Torts was coaching: "Everybody wants to win... not everyone is willing to prepare to win."

That mentality has clearly departed. The hard work, dedication, and compete level that was once required of this team to win games has all but disappeared. While some of these players will put maximum effort when challenge by an external source, they are incapable of motivating themselves. We lost the physical toughness with the departure of guys like Dubi and Prust, and then the mental toughness disappeared with the influx of Columbus players and the firing of Torts.
Spot on. At least we got more goals and prettier hockey out of the deal.

...oh wait

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12-21-2013, 11:15 AM
  #304
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Originally Posted by pld459666 View Post
no it's not.

The team is not talented enough to play a system that has proven success.

If there's a justified firing, it's the guy that keeps bringing in the wrong guys for the HC he has, or the wrong HC for the players he has.

AV is NOT the problem here.

The whole front office staff is, owner on down
You say that as if I don't want Sather gone. I'm definitely in the #RetireSather, #FireSather and #FeelMyIreSather crowd.

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12-21-2013, 11:20 AM
  #305
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
There used to be a quote on the locker room walls when Torts was coaching: "Everybody wants to win... not everyone is willing to prepare to win."

That mentality has clearly departed. The hard work, dedication, and compete level that was once required of this team to win games has all but disappeared. While some of these players will put maximum effort when challenge by an external source, they are incapable of motivating themselves. We lost the physical toughness with the departure of guys like Dubi and Prust, and then the mental toughness disappeared with the influx of Columbus players and the firing of Torts.
Spot on. I mean I'm watching other teams play against each other to so that I feel like I'm watching NHL hockey. Watching LA play ANA the other night was like watching the Rangers play the Bruins two years ago.

A treat to watch. Even if a team lost, they lost with some semblance of dignity.

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12-21-2013, 11:33 AM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Whether its in his nature or not, AV is going to have to go all Tortorella on this group. You get pucks deep, you fore-check like hell, you finish your checks...you play hard or you dont play at all.
we don't have the guys to play that style either.

To play that way effectively you have to be big, fast and skilled enough to take advantage of the turnovers you hope to create.

The Rangers bigger guys are slow as snails and lack the talent, creativity and finishing ability to play that way.

The guys that DO have the speed and talent to play that way lack the desire to engage consistently enough as if they are afraid to crack eggs or something.

we are a middling team consisting of a hodge podge of players with no one mindset of players capable of playing any one style effectively.

the best thing for this franchise is for someone to hit the re-set button and clear out everyone.

GM, all his staff, coach, minor league GM, his staff.

get someone in here with a plan from the bottom up.

It would be one thing if we sucked knowing we have help coming from the minors. But that team sucks as bad as we do, playing a style that is opposite to what the Rangers play now.

This org. is a clusterf**k right now

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12-21-2013, 02:30 PM
  #307
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Money and power makes people think they can change it all overnight. Just pressing a button seems too easy eh ? Well if it were that easy the Yankees Redskins Knicks and Rangers would be Champs 10 years running.

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Old
12-23-2013, 09:41 AM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Whether its in his nature or not, AV is going to have to go all Tortorella on this group. You get pucks deep, you fore-check like hell, you finish your checks...you play hard or you dont play at all.
Shouldn't that be the mantra period, not just a Tortarella mantra? Since when is fore-checking and finishing your checks considered attributable to a style of play?

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12-23-2013, 09:42 AM
  #309
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Spot on.
Double that.

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01-03-2014, 10:13 PM
  #310
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Embarrassing game tonight, another show of Rangers girl hockey

Priority 1: Get a decent bottom line player with the ability to drop the gloves and fight when necessary.

Whether you like it or not, the Rangers will not make the playoffs without some team toughness...no way.

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01-03-2014, 10:15 PM
  #311
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How about stressing a team identity of standing up for your teammates. How about getting rid of some of these soft players who can't hit and can't drop the gloves.

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01-03-2014, 10:18 PM
  #312
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How about stressing a team identity of standing up for your teammates. How about getting rid of some of these soft players who can't hit and can't drop the gloves.
No, no, no. We didn't like that kind of hockey, remember? We play AV hockey now. Soft, emotionless. At least there's no more JAM, GRIND. Because those were silly things to do.

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01-03-2014, 10:21 PM
  #313
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No, no, no. We didn't like that kind of hockey, remember? We play AV hockey now. Soft, emotionless. At least there's no more JAM, GRIND. Because those were silly things to do.
Hey, it was fun to see the Rangers go to it.
Surely you noticed when the well ran dry. Like it would again.

Need to build a real team.

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01-03-2014, 10:33 PM
  #314
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AV Says we played hard and we are REDWING Tough no worries

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01-03-2014, 10:34 PM
  #315
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Really tough to watch

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01-03-2014, 11:10 PM
  #316
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Sidney Crosby showed MOAR TOUFFNESS tonight than the Rangers.

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01-03-2014, 11:12 PM
  #317
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I find it funny how the toughness thread gets bumped up after every lack luster effort this season. You know its as if people notice a difference out there when the team doesn't show up to play.

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01-03-2014, 11:27 PM
  #318
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Team toughness is a canard without someone on the team who can actually lead in that area. It's like expecting 1st line production out of 2nd line players and no real legit goalscorer. You might get a lot of nice passing and occasional very beautiful highlight looking goals but the finish game in and game out just isn't there. The Rangers don't have any real toughness on their current team.

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01-04-2014, 10:41 AM
  #319
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Since this is a lost season...some Ufa's to look @:

Kevin Westgarth
Brandon Bolig
Ryan Garbutt
Trevor Lewis
Matt Greene - 3 years the most
Colin Fraser
Clayton Stoner - great name
Mark Fayne
Matt Kassian
Steve Downie
Paul Bissonnette
Derek Engellannd
Joe Vitale
Mike Brown
Ryan Reaves
Dave Bolland
Mark Frasor
Chris Thorburn

But since AV is in charge and Sather refuses to die we will get Stepane Robidas and Vern Fiddler instead.

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01-04-2014, 10:57 AM
  #320
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Since this is a lost season...some Ufa's to look @:

Kevin Westgarth
Brandon Bolig
Ryan Garbutt
Trevor Lewis
Matt Greene - 3 years the most
Colin Fraser
Clayton Stoner - great name
Mark Fayne
Matt Kassian
Steve Downie
Paul Bissonnette
Derek Engellannd
Joe Vitale
Mike Brown
Ryan Reaves
Dave Bolland
Mark Frasor
Chris Thorburn

But since AV is in charge and Sather refuses to die we will get Stepane Robidas and Vern Fiddler instead.
Greene, Bollig, Reaves, Bolland, Engelland, Downie I'm okay with.

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01-04-2014, 11:03 AM
  #321
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Originally Posted by Orr Nightmare View Post
Since this is a lost season...some Ufa's to look @:

Kevin Westgarth
Brandon Bolig
Ryan Garbutt
Trevor Lewis
Matt Greene - 3 years the most
Colin Fraser
Clayton Stoner - great name
Mark Fayne
Matt Kassian
Steve Downie
Paul Bissonnette
Derek Engellannd
Joe Vitale
Mike Brown
Ryan Reaves
Dave Bolland
Mark Frasor
Chris Thorburn

But since AV is in charge and Sather refuses to die we will get Stepane Robidas and Vern Fiddler instead.
So sad we are reduced to this crew in the effort to develop a spine

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Old
01-04-2014, 11:06 AM
  #322
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Greene, Bollig, Reaves, Bolland, Engelland, Downie I'm okay with.
and of those I'm ok with Reaves and Engelland. Greene is a band-aid on skates, Bollig and Boland are decent bottom liners, but aren't feared and Downie, while actually a really good player when not in the box is really only just a talented pest.

Give me a guy like Chris Stewart or Adam McQuaid. Tough as nails, will drop with anyone and can play.

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01-04-2014, 11:22 AM
  #323
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and of those I'm ok with Reaves and Engelland. Greene is a band-aid on skates, Bollig and Boland are decent bottom liners, but aren't feared and Downie, while actually a really good player when not in the box is really only just a talented pest.

Give me a guy like Chris Stewart or Adam McQuaid. Tough as nails, will drop with anyone and can play.
I was working off his list. Bolland's not really a fighter--a good player. Downie's a talented pest--decent (not great) middleweight/agitator. Bollig and Reaves are both bottom liners--both can really fight and are not terrible players. Greene would give our D more spine--believe he's also a right side guy. Engelland is a decent bottom pairing d-man for the Pens could can really throw them. Looking at the Pens roster--it seems almost as if their WBS roster is interchangeable with the big team. I can see them not re-signing Engelland. Wouldn't mind him.

Stewart or McQuaid would both be very good additions for us. We'll have to trade to get them. Don't suppose we could get either for Del Zotto?

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Old
01-04-2014, 11:27 AM
  #324
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That would make me very happy! Whatever it is, to deny this team doesn't need toughness now in my mind is pretty silly. We're getting slapped around in every building. Hard to watch.

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Old
01-04-2014, 11:31 AM
  #325
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They need someone to help Dorsett which is why dealing dz for Barrie and a gritty guy like McLeod is my preference . Nay as well try Haley too

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