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Del Zotto’s reps want meeting with Rangers GM to talk trade

View Poll Results: Trade Del Zotto?
Yes 130 76.47%
No 40 23.53%
Voters: 170. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-04-2014, 11:40 AM
  #101
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I have to assume that theres some sort of personal rift between Del Zotto and the coach.

Its tough to argue against Del Zotto being a top 6 defenseman (and probably top 5) on this team, yet he doesnt play. Hes better than Falk, hes better than Connor Allen, and I think hes better than Moore.

Theres little explanation as to why hes not playing.

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01-04-2014, 11:42 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Clowe Knows Best View Post
Right after "The Garden Transformed Part 1357886544: Dolan recalls the exact spot where he took his first **** in the building"
That, my friend, was absolutely priceless. Your remark; not Mr. Dolan's, um, adventure.

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01-04-2014, 11:47 AM
  #103
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I'd keep him. I still have hope this kid can become a big time player. Put some confidence in him and play the hell out of him.

I think a lot of people are just looking for a trade while a lot of people are in the win now mode and he makes way to many mistakes. I don't think we're close to winning a cup unless Hank stands on his head and Nash 2.0 becomes Nash 1.0

If you wanna trade him do it when his value is high at least.
thats why AVs a ****** coach..

and..

that is what pissses me off the most.. just trade him to trade him..

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01-04-2014, 12:16 PM
  #104
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thats why AVs a ****** coach..

and..

that is what pissses me off the most.. just trade him to trade him..
People wanted to trade MDZ for offensive help. Considering thats what this team desperately need that makes sense.

Now he almost has to be traded because AV and him will never be able to work together (that is what it looks like). It isn't "trading him just to trade him".

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01-04-2014, 12:34 PM
  #105
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I think some players just can't hack it in New York and some players no matter where they play just need a change. Del zotto fits that mold to me, he'll go somewhere else and step his game up just doesn't belong in New York

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01-04-2014, 12:59 PM
  #106
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They have ruined his confidence, alienated him, and wiped away any trade value he may have had while sitting on their hands. It's January. He's been hearing rumors swirling around him for like, 2 years already. What do you think that does to someone's confidence?
BS, and no defense to management. Generally I'd agree, and while he has been undeservedly scratched a couple times, Del Zotto's biggest problem is between his own ears. He's been given countless oppotunities at times where he shouldn't have, and it cost us. No one has ruined his confidence; he's either neurotic and full of self-doubt, or he just doesn't have a hockey mind to be good consistently.

I agree that his value is ****, but that's because he's been taking a step forward and then a step back for four years now, this season is only steps back.

He needs a fresh start, send him to VAN, Torts loves him! lol All the best, but I'd take a 2nd for him. That's all we'll get

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01-04-2014, 01:21 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR View Post
BS, and no defense to management. Generally I'd agree, and while he has been undeservedly scratched a couple times, Del Zotto's biggest problem is between his own ears. He's been given countless oppotunities at times where he shouldn't have, and it cost us. No one has ruined his confidence; he's either neurotic and full of self-doubt, or he just doesn't have a hockey mind to be good consistently.

I agree that his value is ****, but that's because he's been taking a step forward and then a step back for four years now, this season is only steps back.

He needs a fresh start, send him to VAN, Torts loves him! lol All the best, but I'd take a 2nd for him. That's all we'll get
Most professional athletes have very sensitive egos. Their entire lives are based on having been the best at every level and being coddled and adored by friends, families and the junior organizations that sent them on their way. Why do you think they talk SO much about confidence in professional sports and how it relates to hot/cold streaks. When a player plays confident they play much, much better. When a player plays without confidence they can be a complete ghost of their true abilities. You lose faith in yourself. You don't want to carry he puck but you're questioning your pass before you make it as well. When the puck reaches you at the point you are so nervous/excited for a chance to get back in the positive that you drill it 6 feet high and wide, or bobble it and go offsides. It's very real and all players experience it. Lundqvist is fighting it this year. Part of Staal's struggles are related to getting confident in himself once more. McDonagh is where he is because his confidence has been building for the past few years here. Some players get lucky and they get to take a linear path through the pros where confidence rises with experience and they rarely see any prolonged rough patches. Confidence is more important and more fragile in young players. That's part of the reason coaches are tasked with being responsible for player development. Mike Babcock isn't developing Daniel Alfredsson this year but he's got to handle the ups and downs of his younger guys like Tatar, Jurco and Nyquist in a way that teaches them without damaging their confidence. I'm not trying to absolve Del Zotto from being responsible at all, by the way, and some players are more resilient than others but AV has had a terrible impact on DZ this year. The kid needs a change of scenery and he easily may still flourish as a mid pairing 40+ point damn some day.

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01-04-2014, 01:38 PM
  #108
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Listen, I'll take pretty much any opportunity to bash this organization's management, but IMO, this is not one of those situations where the blame lies solely on their shoulders.

The crowd complaining "Wow our management is so stupid, how come they didn't trade him when his value is high! Now we're going to get nothing in return!" is probably the same crowd that would have complained if he was traded a few seasons back. The problem with trading young players, especially in hockey, is that it is too difficult to determine when their value is going to drop. After DZ's rookie season, I'm sure none of us were expecting this sort of collapse in his game. Hell, even in the beginning of LAST SEASON I thought he was one of our best defensemen (albeit for a short period of time).

Del Zotto plays defense, a position that experiences tons of growing pains and seasons of inconsistency. This is even more applicable for puck moving defensemen. For this reason, it is not only difficult to predict when their value is at its highest, it is also difficult to justify trading them considering they are a necessity for contending teams.

This season though, management has handled him rather poorly. This aspect of his downfall is their fault. There has been no ups and downs in his game this season, he has been consistently poor. If they were going to trade him, they should have either done it quickly (considering his value was going to stabilize) or actually let him play. The act of scratching him consistently over the likes of Falk and Allen will most certainly diminish his value even more. It tells other teams that his play has not only declined, but has gotten so bad that we expect 6th and 7th defensemen to contribute more to the line up than he does.

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01-04-2014, 01:39 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Perfect Paradox View Post
Listen, I'll take pretty much any opportunity to bash this organization's management, but IMO, this is not one of those situations where the blame lies solely on their shoulders.

The crowd complaining "Wow our management is so stupid, how come they didn't trade him when his value is high! Now we're going to get nothing in return!" is probably the same crowd that would have complained if he was traded a few seasons back. The problem with trading young players, especially in hockey, is that it is too difficult to determine when their value is going to drop. After DZ's rookie season, I'm sure none of us were expecting this sort of collapse in his game. Hell, even in the beginning of LAST SEASON I thought he was one of our best defensemen.

Del Zotto plays defense, a position that experiences tons of growing pains and seasons of inconsistency. This is even more applicable for puck moving defensemen. For this reason, it is not only difficult to predict when their value is at its highest, it is also difficult to justify trading them considering they are a necessity for contending teams.

This season though, management has handled him rather poorly. This aspect of his downfall is their fault. There has been no ups and downs in his game this season, he has been consistently poor. If they were going to trade him, they should have either done it quickly (considering his value was going to stabilize) or actually let him play. The act of scratching him consistently over the likes of Falk and Allen will most certainly diminish his value even more. It tells other teams that his play has not only declined, but has gotten so bad that we expect 6th and 7th defensemen to contribute more to the line up than he does.
I like the way you think, stranger.

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01-04-2014, 01:44 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
I like the way you think, stranger.
I think the fact that I have become a stranger on this board makes me more upset than the lack of perspective in this thread!

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01-04-2014, 01:45 PM
  #111
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I think the fact that I have become a stranger on this board makes me more upset than the lack of perspective in this thread!
Me too

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01-04-2014, 01:49 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by SERE 24 View Post
Most professional athletes have very sensitive egos. Their entire lives are based on having been the best at every level and being coddled and adored by friends, families and the junior organizations that sent them on their way. Why do you think they talk SO much about confidence in professional sports and how it relates to hot/cold streaks. When a player plays confident they play much, much better. When a player plays without confidence they can be a complete ghost of their true abilities. You lose faith in yourself. You don't want to carry he puck but you're questioning your pass before you make it as well. When the puck reaches you at the point you are so nervous/excited for a chance to get back in the positive that you drill it 6 feet high and wide, or bobble it and go offsides. It's very real and all players experience it. Lundqvist is fighting it this year. Part of Staal's struggles are related to getting confident in himself once more. McDonagh is where he is because his confidence has been building for the past few years here. Some players get lucky and they get to take a linear path through the pros where confidence rises with experience and they rarely see any prolonged rough patches. Confidence is more important and more fragile in young players. That's part of the reason coaches are tasked with being responsible for player development. Mike Babcock isn't developing Daniel Alfredsson this year but he's got to handle the ups and downs of his younger guys like Tatar, Jurco and Nyquist in a way that teaches them without damaging their confidence. I'm not trying to absolve Del Zotto from being responsible at all, by the way, and some players are more resilient than others but AV has had a terrible impact on DZ this year. The kid needs a change of scenery and he easily may still flourish as a mid pairing 40+ point damn some day.
I appreciate your post, but you didn't have to go that in depth. I've followed the game for 20 years, and played it at one point. I also have OCD and anxiety, so I know what it's like to doubt yourself.

I also know that the even the Prince of ****ing Siam knows how to man the **** up lol, and that poor confidence is temporary until you get one graceful bounce, then it's fair game again.

I also know that it isn't normal for ANYONE to spend four years doubting their abilities. It's not like they ever played him for 5:00 the night after a 3-point game, see what I mean?

He's had the chance to thrive, with pretty sheltered circumstances. You could make the case that he was rushed. Even still, athletes are sensitive. They're also human, and humans are highly adaptable creatures.

I hope Del Zotto arrives, I just think it's gotta be elsewhere.

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01-04-2014, 01:50 PM
  #113
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AV tried the whole Zucc and Pouliot thing with DZ, and its backfired hilariously. Now we might have ruined the confidence of a potentially good defenseman.

Way to management. Let him walk or play him, he's too good to sit on the benches watching the little confidence he has left slip away into misery.

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01-04-2014, 01:53 PM
  #114
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$2.55 mil vs $.840mil
How many times are you going to post this? It doesn't make John Moore any worse/better than Del Zotto.

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01-04-2014, 02:02 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by BobMarleyNYR View Post
I appreciate your post, but you didn't have to go that in depth. I've followed the game for 20 years, and played it at one point. I also have OCD and anxiety, so I know what it's like to doubt yourself.

I also know that the even the Prince of ****ing Siam knows how to man the **** up lol, and that poor confidence is temporary until you get one graceful bounce, then it's fair game again.

I also know that it isn't normal for ANYONE to spend four years doubting their abilities. It's not like they ever played him for 5:00 the night after a 3-point game, see what I mean?

He's had the chance to thrive, with pretty sheltered circumstances. You could make the case that he was rushed. Even still, athletes are sensitive. They're also human, and humans are highly adaptable creatures.

I hope Del Zotto arrives, I just think it's gotta be elsewhere.
He's been a serviceable young #4/5 almost his entire time here, minus his sophomore season, sometimes filling in higher up the lineup than that and doing so quite well. He has had plenty of times where his confidence has been high and it has translated in both his offensive and defensive game. If you haven't seen that in the last few years you're not as keen an observer of the game as you claim, though I think you have and your frustration/disappointment with the player has made you a bit shortsighted. Understandably. I am talking about his confidence this season only. Sure, he's been frustrating, not being able to put it all the way together in years past but he is still young even now and in the past you took the ups and the downs because overall he was certainly a player worthy of being in the top 4/5 of our d-core. What has changed this year? Did he not prepare well in the offseason? Has he gotten complacent? Perhaps, but I think after struggling early with the man to man defensive scheme (which seemingly none of our players truly grasp) he became AV's odd man out and his confidence has been shaken and deteriorating since. He went from a 22 year old solid #4-5 on a good d-core to a 23 year old #7 on a poor defensive team in about 20 games. I think this stage of his struggles and this prolonged down period in his play is as much AV's fault as his own. I think a change of scenery will do him well. Personally, I actually believe he'll always be proem to bonehead decisions with the puck, but he'll wind up a #4 somewhere and be a productive puck mover with faults.

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01-04-2014, 02:02 PM
  #116
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It's hard to believe Del Zotto sits over guys like Falk and Moore, and Im not even a big fan of DZ. Are they worried about him getting hurt or something? It doesn't make sense. John Moore is a terrible player. He can skate well and has a fairly decent shot. The rest of his game leaves a lot to be desired. Even Allen who has been a nice surprise should be sitting. This is horrible player management.

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01-04-2014, 02:03 PM
  #117
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I agree however, that it will have to be elsewhere.

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01-04-2014, 02:09 PM
  #118
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Maybe a smaller market team... Nashville or Phoenix.

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01-04-2014, 02:16 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Perfect Paradox View Post
Listen, I'll take pretty much any opportunity to bash this organization's management, but IMO, this is not one of those situations where the blame lies solely on their shoulders.

The crowd complaining "Wow our management is so stupid, how come they didn't trade him when his value is high! Now we're going to get nothing in return!" is probably the same crowd that would have complained if he was traded a few seasons back. The problem with trading young players, especially in hockey, is that it is too difficult to determine when their value is going to drop. After DZ's rookie season, I'm sure none of us were expecting this sort of collapse in his game. Hell, even in the beginning of LAST SEASON I thought he was one of our best defensemen (albeit for a short period of time).

Del Zotto plays defense, a position that experiences tons of growing pains and seasons of inconsistency. This is even more applicable for puck moving defensemen. For this reason, it is not only difficult to predict when their value is at its highest, it is also difficult to justify trading them considering they are a necessity for contending teams.

This season though, management has handled him rather poorly. This aspect of his downfall is their fault. There has been no ups and downs in his game this season, he has been consistently poor. If they were going to trade him, they should have either done it quickly (considering his value was going to stabilize) or actually let him play. The act of scratching him consistently over the likes of Falk and Allen will most certainly diminish his value even more. It tells other teams that his play has not only declined, but has gotten so bad that we expect 6th and 7th defensemen to contribute more to the line up than he does.
Some people did see the maddening inconsistency, did see the mental weakness, and did see the lack of progression. They projected this scenario moving forward. Dating back quite a ways. Some people even advocated selling high on MDZ in his "untouchable" 2011-2012 phase. It's easy to make generalizations about a "board" when in reality it is composed of hundreds of unique voices.

But at the end of the day it is completely irrelevant what a few people on a message board thought. What is relevant is that over the years Ranger management has routinely failed at managing all assets, but especially developing assets. The pro scouting has been just as big of an issue as amateur scouting. They have showed no ability to sell high on emerging assets. No ability to find deals to acquire impact players (especially forwards) with the chips they had. No ability to play the projection game.

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01-04-2014, 02:16 PM
  #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightshift View Post
It's hard to believe Del Zotto sits over guys like Falk and Moore, and Im not even a big fan of DZ. Are they worried about him getting hurt or something? It doesn't make sense. John Moore is a terrible player. He can skate well and has a fairly decent shot. The rest of his game leaves a lot to be desired. Even Allen who has been a nice surprise should be sitting. This is horrible player management.
Yeah,, the Moore experiment must end. Falk is an ECHL all-star. I like Allen. Still, MDZ should have a spot by that logic, but he'd most likely follow up a solid 20+ minute game with 3 games of feeble, poorly timed outlets, moronic turnovers and skittish coverage, that's his MO. How cand you trade a guy like that?

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01-04-2014, 02:21 PM
  #121
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DZ can't handle NY?

********. He handled it pretty ****ing good in 11-12, and he was nowhere near as bad as half this board tries to cry about last year either.

AV can't handle this team and Glen Sather can't handle his job.

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01-04-2014, 02:41 PM
  #122
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DZ can't handle NY?
I'm not sure he wasn't under heavier scrutiny when he was in London...

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01-04-2014, 03:05 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by The Perfect Paradox View Post
I think the fact that I have become a stranger on this board makes me more upset than the lack of perspective in this thread!
It's only because you changed your name

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01-04-2014, 03:11 PM
  #124
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The biggest issue is that this sort of thing seems to be a trend with this management group. They seem to be unable to gauge what kind of player they have at their disposal, and what they can do to maximize the success, or at the very least, maximize the trade value. When was the last time we sold high on a player? Prucha, Dubinsky, Korpikoski, Gaborik, Kundratek, etc. All were dealt at their lowest value and in most cases, returned nothing useful.

The Rangers might not be in a hurry to trade Del Zotto, but they're certainly not doing anything to increase his trade value. At the very least, give the kid a chance to play and see if he can readjust and raise his trade value.

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01-04-2014, 03:25 PM
  #125
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Originally Posted by The Perfect Paradox View Post
I think the fact that I have become a stranger on this board makes me more upset than the lack of perspective in this thread!
This is OT, but so what? It's a message board.

I've been on for a few years myself and no one takes my posts all that seriously. And so what? Plus, with the snotty remark, effectively trashing every opinion in a thread, you really shouldn't expect anyone to care who you are.

Sorry, I just never quite understood the politics here lol

BTW, I do agree with what you're saying though

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