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Old
01-04-2014, 11:14 AM
  #26
JackStraw
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To the OP, not really a fan of Buff to begin with and at that price not a chance. No way Homer would do that trade.

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Old
01-04-2014, 12:00 PM
  #27
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Unlike most, I actually like Byfuglien and think he would be very good for this team. But at that price, the Flyers would not bite.

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01-04-2014, 12:18 PM
  #28
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**** that ****!!

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Old
01-04-2014, 01:23 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heilongjetsfan View Post
Jets fan coming in (mostly) peace. My mom was a flyers fan growing up and they've always been one of my "other teams."

There's another post going strong here on your boards that suggests a trade for buff and montoya revolving around Mark Streit and some other crap that you don't want laying around. Nothing against Streit as a player, I've really liked him even as far back as his days with the Habs, but obviously at this point in his career, his trade value is next to nothing.

Winnipeg BADLY needs an LHD who can handle 2nd pairing commitments or better. We would like to add some depth on the wings, too. I think a trade that could benefit both teams would go something like this:

To Winnipeg:
Braydon Coburn
Wayne Simmonds
2014 4th round pick
2015 2nd round pick *conditional on flyers making the east final*

To Philadelphia:
Dustin Byfuglien

That is all.

I know there's going to be a couple homers who are going to try to tell me I'm trying to rob you blind, or that Buff is a hack. The truth is he's an all-star invitee, has been a league leader in shot attempts, and points by defensemen for the last 4 years and is on a very reasonable contract.

Why do we want to move him? We don't even a little bit want to move him, but we've got too much talent (Buff, Bogo, Trouba, Redmond, Postma) in our RHD corps to benefit from all of it. You don't want Bogo or Trouba getting 3rd pairing minutes, they're just too good.

Let me know what you guys think of this - unless of course you're going to give me a bag of pucks counter. I haven't checked how it works for cap space for either team but someone let me know if it's not workable that way.
That isn't being a homer, that's having common sense. You're the one looking like a homer for even thinking he's worth that.

Hell no.

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Old
01-04-2014, 01:29 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
Not unless you think Kimmo Timonen is easily replaceable in the off season. I would give strong consideration to Big Buff, but not for that package.
Or any package that includes Coburn.

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01-04-2014, 01:31 PM
  #31
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This proposal could be as bad as the bad-decent one.

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01-04-2014, 01:32 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
This proposal could be as bad as the bad-decent one.
How dare you. That was legendary.

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01-04-2014, 01:36 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
How dare you. That was legendary.
The OP claiming WE are the homers for not agreeing with his outrageously bad proposal is what seals it for me.

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01-04-2014, 01:38 PM
  #34
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TO TOR :
Jeff Carter (great center)
Garrett Klotz (bad-decent prospect)

TO PHI :
Mikhail Grabovski (decent center)
Fredrik Sjostrom (fast skater, great PK)
Juraj Mikus (good dman prospect)
3rd Round Pick (2011)
5th Round Pick (2011)

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Old
01-04-2014, 01:38 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by TheIceman26 View Post
But we're just being homers for not liking the proposal buff has 31 points but is -11. he's average at absolutely best playing defense. Coupled with losing our top scorer and best defenseman, this trade makes us considerably worse and not sure how OP could think otherwise.
For that package we could get a couple really good young players from a contending team. Pass on Puffy at any price.

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Old
01-04-2014, 04:41 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by BillyShoe1721 View Post
Unlike most, I actually like Byfuglien and think he would be very good for this team. But at that price, the Flyers would not bite.
if the nhl was only about bombing shots from the point then buff would be a 1st ballet hofer.

I would trade very little I cared about for him.

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01-04-2014, 05:08 PM
  #37
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Lulz, so basically we're giving up a better Dman in Coburn, AND we're sending Simmer there as well,
Why would Homer ever pull the trigger on this trade?
I'd rather trade for Kane, than Buff anyday of the week

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01-04-2014, 05:19 PM
  #38
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I don't want the Flyers to get Buff. This proposal is outright hilarious though.

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01-04-2014, 05:43 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDinklage Morgoone View Post
TO TOR :
Jeff Carter (great center)
Garrett Klotz (bad-decent prospect)

TO PHI :
Mikhail Grabovski (decent center)
Fredrik Sjostrom (fast skater, great PK)
Juraj Mikus (good dman prospect)
3rd Round Pick (2011)
5th Round Pick (2011)
GTIHFFBH

greatest thread in HF Flyers Board History

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Old
01-04-2014, 10:45 PM
  #40
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Don't get the Buff hate, guy would actually add a presence to this back end

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Old
01-04-2014, 10:46 PM
  #41
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To those who read Burnside's incredible team USA selection article/novel...was Byfuglien even discussed amongst the selection committee?


I'm willing to bet Braydon Coburn is getting more consideration for Team Canada than Byfuglien did for Team USA, which obviously isn't saying much...

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Old
01-04-2014, 11:44 PM
  #42
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If buff hadn't won a Stanley cup with a loaded team. People would think even less of
Him. He's was a solid luxury on his ELC. His goal scoring an offense is canceled out by his laziness.

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01-05-2014, 01:09 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheIceman26 View Post
buff has 31 points but is -11. he's average at absolutely best playing defense. Coupled with losing our top scorer and best defenseman, this trade makes us considerably worse and not sure how OP could think otherwise.
Buff is a plus player 5v5 in shots on goal, Fenwick and Corsi. This is a case where +/- is misleading.

That said, it's a ridiculous proposal. The gap between Buff and Coburn isn't worth Simmonds, let alone draft picks on top.

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Old
01-05-2014, 01:25 AM
  #44
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That's about what I would give up for Weber but not Buff!

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Old
01-05-2014, 02:38 AM
  #45
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Alright, so I guess I should have known I wasn't going to win any friends with the homer comment. Not that anyone seemed to get what I meant by it. I was anticipating getting responses like "b. schenn +4th in 2019," and to the credit of Flyers fans, I didn't notice any garbage counters, so that's alright.

The way I see it, pulling off a trade of this magnitude requires an ongoing, back and forth conversation. Of course I'm going to shoot for the moon on my initial contact. I know what I have and I know what I need. I also know what's even better than what I need and that's exactly what I asked you for. What I want to get for this all-star RHD is a 2nd pairing LHD and a top 9 winger.

I've got to say also that I was personally unfamiliar with the problems with your current roster, when I made that offer. Despite the fact that you're doing better than us in the standings, you sure can't put the puck in the net. Which brings me to my first argument:

Simmonds is a classic 2nd-3rd right winger. For some reason, you don't have anyone else scoring goals this year, but his 11g is not exactly lighting the world on fire. Him being the leading scorer on a team that doesn't score goals doesn't mean he's worth what a 1st line rw is. I want him for our 3rd line: Tangradi Jokinen Simmonds. He'll make Setoguchi easier to trade if we want to add picks at the deadline. Not that Seto has to go anywhere, he's been decently reliable this season.

Coburn might be a little better than 2nd pairing, but might and a little better are in this sentence for a reason. That being said, if I look down your roster, I don't see anyone who seems like a reasonable replacement for him in this trade. Honestly I have some reservations about Coburn's physicality, as we've already got Enstrom and Stuart playing kinda soft on the left side.

The 4th round pick comes in what's considered a pretty weak draft, and might be considered a 5th or 6th in other years, so it's not very expensive.

The 2nd round pick is *conditional* and while I'm confident that at least 90% of you know what that means, the other 10% have keyboards too, so I'll point out that you don't need to give up this pick unless you get to the East Final, which seems like pretty stong evidence that the trade has already been very good to you.

Maybe you guys aren't the right dance partner for us, and that's alright. I looked to you in the first place because you seem to have a lot of left-side d-men coming into the system, seem to want an RHD for your first pairing, and historically love size at all positions.

I know what we have in Buff, and anyone on Flyers boards who uses advanced stats is going to be at least intrigued by Buff, even if you don't like the price tag. He's a very polarizing player. You love him or you hate him, but there is statistical evidence to show very clearly that he brings something very positive with him when he steps on the ice. And he can stay on that ice for over 25 minutes a game. You can ignore the fact that Pavelec is an ECHL goalie with a drinking problem and say his -11 is proof that he's damaging to his team or you could take a closer look and realize that Nathan McKinnon isn't a Jet because Byfuglien is.

In closing, we have 3 first pairing RHD. You have 0. Want one? This is the starting point for a conversation.

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Old
01-05-2014, 03:05 AM
  #46
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LOL@ Black Dragon River Jets fan for using common sense and logic and expecting people to react positively.

The only way you get an opposing fanbase to support your proposal is if you make a proposal in which the other team is getting at least a 20% discount valuewise for whatever you're giving or taking back.

Then your fans bash you and laugh at you and claim that you have nothing to do with them.

The proposal is sound.

I really LOVED the dude earlier to suggested that they can't give up Simmonds because he's worth so much for being your leading goal scorer. When it was mentioned that he'd only scored 11 goals and people are defending him for scoring 11 goals throughout half of the season my laptop almost fell onto the floor as I laughed pretty hard.

Seriously. Buff could end up scoring more goals and points than Simmonds this year. More than Philly's leading goal scorer. This is hilarious.

As mentioned before, you guys have d-men retiring and leaving over the next few years and you guys don't even have a #1 d-man right now No, I don't think that Kimo is a #1 anymore. He's regressed significantly. Coburn is a serviceable #2 if you've got a #1 to play with him, but he's more or less an good quality 2nd pairing d-man.

Buff is making less than 6M per season, the cap will be 71M next season and the cap will be over 78M the season after that due to the money from the TV contract kicking in. You people are hilarious.

You guys actually sound almost as hilarious as Oil fans who constantly think that it's just a matter of time till Edmonton lands OEL or Weber for Eberle + Gagner.

This trade is huge for Philly and in the long run a slight upgrade for the Jets. Philly is the team that should be jumping on this proposal before Winnipeg.

Jet's fans take this only because they've got so many d-men on their depth chart and even more coming up through the system. I actually doubt that Jets GM would make this trade. If Simmonds was a consistent 25 goal scorer I think it would be easier for the Jets to pull the trigger on this one, but that's far from being the truth.

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01-05-2014, 03:22 AM
  #47
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Buff is not nearly as good defensively as Coburn is. Great, he's good at offense...that doesn't justify the payment. At all. Giving up two roster players for a one dimensional D isn't what the Flyers need. If they're going to make a trade that expensive they need to be getting a defensively sound Dman who can also put up points.

Buff is like Yandle. Good at offense. Not so good at defense. That's not the sort of Dman I have any interest in paying a king's ransom for. The Flyers need a true #1 dman. They don't need to overpay for Buff.

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Old
01-05-2014, 03:28 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thadd View Post
LOL@ Black Dragon River Jets fan for using common sense and logic and expecting people to react positively.

The only way you get an opposing fanbase to support your proposal is if you make a proposal in which the other team is getting at least a 20% discount valuewise for whatever you're giving or taking back.

Then your fans bash you and laugh at you and claim that you have nothing to do with them.

The proposal is sound.

I really LOVED the dude earlier to suggested that they can't give up Simmonds because he's worth so much for being your leading goal scorer. When it was mentioned that he'd only scored 11 goals and people are defending him for scoring 11 goals throughout half of the season my laptop almost fell onto the floor as I laughed pretty hard.

Seriously. Buff could end up scoring more goals and points than Simmonds this year. More than Philly's leading goal scorer. This is hilarious.

As mentioned before, you guys have d-men retiring and leaving over the next few years and you guys don't even have a #1 d-man right now No, I don't think that Kimo is a #1 anymore. He's regressed significantly. Coburn is a serviceable #2 if you've got a #1 to play with him, but he's more or less an good quality 2nd pairing d-man.

Buff is making less than 6M per season, the cap will be 71M next season and the cap will be over 78M the season after that due to the money from the TV contract kicking in. You people are hilarious.

You guys actually sound almost as hilarious as Oil fans who constantly think that it's just a matter of time till Edmonton lands OEL or Weber for Eberle + Gagner.

This trade is huge for Philly and in the long run a slight upgrade for the Jets. Philly is the team that should be jumping on this proposal before Winnipeg.

Jet's fans take this only because they've got so many d-men on their depth chart and even more coming up through the system. I actually doubt that Jets GM would make this trade. If Simmonds was a consistent 25 goal scorer I think it would be easier for the Jets to pull the trigger on this one, but that's far from being the truth.

Simmonds scored 28 goals his first year here, paced for 27 goals in the lockout year and is on pace for 27 goals this year. At least get your basic arithmetic right before coming in here to sneer at us.

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Old
01-05-2014, 03:31 AM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Simmonds scored 28 goals his first year here, paced for 27 goals in the lockout year and is on pace for 27 goals this year. At least get your basic arithmetic right before coming in here to sneer at us.
No, I think it's funnier this way. Let him be amusingly incorrect

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Old
01-05-2014, 04:29 AM
  #50
thadd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Simmonds scored 28 goals his first year here, paced for 27 goals in the lockout year and is on pace for 27 goals this year. At least get your basic arithmetic right before coming in here to sneer at us.
And look at all the points Kadri and Gagner were on pace for last year. I suppose they're first line players too?

I really enjoyed lasts season. I enjoyed watching my team move forward with a rookie coach about a month into this season I realized that the performances of any and all players who didn't make the playoffs meant absolutely nothing.

Sadly, Kadri(if you're a Leafs fan) is on pace for only 46 points and a whopping -22 while Gagner(if you're an Oil fan) is on pace for 30 points and get this...... you're not going to believe it... .MINUS 40!!!!!! AHHHHH!!!! *Pulls hair out*

Anyhoo to help you understand how much more Buff is worth. Let's look at simple stats here.

Buff averages 26 minutes per game.
Simmonds averages 16 minutes per game.

While Buff's -11 is worse than Simmonds' -4, Buff plays a lot more minutes. There are very few d-men in the NHL who should be playing that many minutes and Buff does it while being on pace for 60 points. 1/3 of them being on the PP.

Anyone in Philly's position would be crazy to turn this down because there aren't ANY other 6"5 265 pound players capable of putting up 60 points and clearing the net while playing 26 minutes per game.

A player of Buff caliber is not comparable to any of the pieces coming from Philly in the OP and that's exactly why I think that Philly fans are the last who could say they're not getting the better end of this deal.

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